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Author Topic: Hybrid traditional boat build.  (Read 2485 times)

magothy1

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Re: Hybrid traditional boat build.
« Reply #30 on: April 10, 2020, 04:23:15 AM »
Keep the photos coming, looks like it's coming right along. What are your fasteners for planking to frames ?

Boat Addict

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  • Posts: 478
Re: Hybrid traditional boat build.
« Reply #31 on: April 10, 2020, 07:33:41 AM »
Keep the photos coming, looks like it's coming right along. What are your fasteners for planking to frames ?
Of course in the older days and when we built using solid wood on frame we used slotted head silicon bronze fasteners. In any traditional builds I still can order these in from a couple of outlets and always counterbore tapered  pilot holes before running them in.  A point of note we also use paraffin wax on the tips of the screws too, which works really well with the hardwoods like the mahogany. Matter of fact I still have about 300 bd ft of the old stuff that was left over from an older build that's hanging out waiting for the call of duty. Need a cool varnished hull? ;)


But I digress , the silicon bronze  have all but gone by the wayside when talking about being available in any form at most of the purveyors of marine parts . But also with the advent of epoxy we are not really too concerned with the type of fasteners past using them to hold components in place until the glue dries. On tape and glue or stitch and glue no fasteners are required.  And the common theme about stainless steel is that you cannot bury them in wood because this causes crevice corrosion. On trailable boats this has proven out not to be an issue.

So in this build I am using trim head # 7 stainless steel square heads.  The torque heads are better for driving in by mechanical means. But with the softwood, white cedar I don't really have to worry about stripping heads. And these are readily available within a mile from the shed and priced better than the 316 torque heads. That's the new fasteners now for all outside decks with the new treatments in supposed pressure treated, if anyone is considering one.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2020, 07:38:58 AM by Boat Addict »

X-Roughneck

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  • 2017 Winnebago Aspect 30J
Re: Hybrid traditional boat build.
« Reply #32 on: April 10, 2020, 05:18:40 PM »
This type of project is like watching grass grow.

I second the motion. 
2017 Winnebago Aspect 30J
2013 Jeep
M&G Air Over Hydraulic Brake on Jeep
Air Tank Adapter for braking on RV

Certified Oil Field Trash / Roughneck (5 yr)
Retired Army (20 yr)
Retired Army Civilian (10 yr)

Only Lessons I never forgot, Were taught by my parents, or a Dog.

John/JD

Boat Addict

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Re: Hybrid traditional boat build.
« Reply #33 on: April 10, 2020, 05:45:02 PM »
I second the motion.
Hey working for free does slow things up more than usual. But of course you can speed things up if you wish$ LOL

magothy1

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  • Posts: 78
Re: Hybrid traditional boat build.
« Reply #34 on: April 10, 2020, 07:27:53 PM »
The trim head screws are smaller heads than the usual flat head ? I've not worked with them. Do you need a countersink type bit or does a tapered bit give enough opening to flush sink them ?

magothy1

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  • Posts: 78
Re: Hybrid traditional boat build.
« Reply #35 on: April 10, 2020, 07:30:59 PM »
Sorry, dead old brain forgot the next question - what's your epoxy choice ?  I've used a fair bit of WEST a while back, built a kit boat from Pygmy Kayak in Port Townsend, Wa. It was the stitch method, I think it's called, using wires to pull the planks together. Boatbuilding is what you're doing. Mine was paint by numbers style.

Boat Addict

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  • Posts: 478
Re: Hybrid traditional boat build.
« Reply #36 on: April 10, 2020, 07:44:58 PM »
The trim head screws are smaller heads than the usual flat head ? I've not worked with them. Do you need a countersink type bit or does a tapered bit give enough opening to flush sink them ?
Yes the heads are just a tad bit bigger than the thread, similar to a head on a finished nail on those types. They pull in pretty good though with the smaller head from most fasteners, especially in soft lumber such as the cedars. But being small in diameter, they will wring off if you attempt to back them out  when they counter sunk into the surface of the wood naturally and thru thickened epoxy glued parts when let sit in for several days.  The thickened epoxy will grab on the thread when cured completely.  I don't use any countersink bits unless its in hardwood.

Because of the small nature in the diameter of the screw  and using power tools like  a driver drill the screws will get warm and sheer off if you just start them in thicker hardwood without predrilling. I also use fine thread sheetrock screws to just hold plywood parts, which is thinner than the framing parts until the glue dries. Sometimes if you leave them in too long, its a safe habit to use a soldering gun on the heads before backing them out, if they appear to be stuck . This softens the epoxy a bit thru the shank of the fasteners.

Those heads are larger and you do not want to leave them in and attempt to paint or glass over them at all. They rust worse than most of the stain-less steel. Yep that's what we call them these days. If you go with any stainless steel fasteners, at the very least use only 304 or 316. Most of the hardware stuff in stainless is 18-8 and must be countersunk and buried if you plan on leaving them in place.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2020, 08:31:33 PM by Boat Addict »

Boat Addict

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  • Posts: 478
Re: Hybrid traditional boat build.
« Reply #37 on: April 10, 2020, 07:53:02 PM »
Sorry, dead old brain forgot the next question - what's your epoxy choice ?  I've used a fair bit of WEST a while back, built a kit boat from Pygmy Kayak in Port Townsend, Wa. It was the stitch method, I think it's called, using wires to pull the planks together. Boatbuilding is what you're doing. Mine was paint by numbers style.
For sure West and System Three is the go to for most folks. But I have been using E Bond Epoxy for years. Its a third of the price, the epoxy is basically the same for glue up and glassing  with the hardeners a bit different. Its used by small boat builders and kit builders too,  repackaged and sold in conjuction with the kits. .  But they do not do retail outlets. They service a lot of industrial businesses But their service is second to none. They sell 3 gallon kits and ship UPS. They ship 5 gallon kits to commercial addresses.

They do not sell the pump kits, but you can buy the large ketchup bottles and pumps to use. I use 2 to 1 mixture.  I also measure mine using a stir stick measured with lines in recycled kitchen cans.  But you can use almost any plastic containers with the measuring marks on them.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2020, 08:32:58 PM by Boat Addict »

X-Roughneck

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  • Posts: 961
  • 2017 Winnebago Aspect 30J
Re: Hybrid traditional boat build.
« Reply #38 on: April 11, 2020, 05:55:34 AM »
I don't know if this is allowed or if there is any interest here. But while we are homebound and restricted from traveling across the country with everything being closed, I am starting a 21 foot skiff in my boat shed. Its will be a framed hull with plywood hull material.  If this is something that's not allowed, please delete it.

BA,

Here you go.

Dang, It just hit me.  I know you are having major issues with the MFG of your particular RV flavor you paid alot of hard earned $$$ on. 

In case it doesn't work out, why don't you convert this "Boat" build now to a RV-Build instead?

It is apparent you have some mad DIY Skill Sets, plural for sure.

EXpert Craftsman comes immediately to my mind. 

It is apparent that this is not your first Boat Building Rodeo.

Follow my train of thought below..

Get some tips here for the suspension, Solar.... Build that RV like I can tell this boat is going to look.  :))

If they Don't Honor their Warranty to Joe Q,.. I got friends in Low Places, Garth Brooks, then...

(Shoot... if a Warranty does not cover front door separation that creates water to pour inside, really? << Thought / drift for a second)

Possible Course of Action:

Drive it up and park it next to their HQ, with a Loud Speaker saying I paid XXXX dollars to this company and their POS they sold me fell apart under warranty so I decided to build one myself!,

Have that PA set to Volume #10 Wide Open, No Muffler, In Their Face, Right off the Turbo, BLASTING LOUD! 

Send them a Pics sample of your other previously built "Master Crafted Boats"  with a cover sheet Stating that this was your former hobby, Let them know you picked up the Itch to Master Craft a RV out of necessity.

Let then know you preparing for some Long Term Camping Out in Front of their HQ in the near future.

JD
 
« Last Edit: April 11, 2020, 06:07:46 AM by X-Roughneck »
2017 Winnebago Aspect 30J
2013 Jeep
M&G Air Over Hydraulic Brake on Jeep
Air Tank Adapter for braking on RV

Certified Oil Field Trash / Roughneck (5 yr)
Retired Army (20 yr)
Retired Army Civilian (10 yr)

Only Lessons I never forgot, Were taught by my parents, or a Dog.

John/JD

X-Roughneck

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  • Posts: 961
  • 2017 Winnebago Aspect 30J
Re: Hybrid traditional boat build.
« Reply #39 on: April 11, 2020, 06:14:04 AM »
Better yet.

Take the Boat and Tent Camp at their HQ. 

Your Loud Speaker #10 Volume Rant.....you took up boat building out of necessity because you spent all you available money on a Defective RV from that MFG.  Let them know how Much You want to Be in the Woods, not the open water! 

Bring the Boat.  That is your "A Game" for sure!

Don't forget the tent and the Loudspeaker.

Option B...Drive around in the HQ Home town with the Loud Speaker blaring from your vehicle that is towing the boat?

JD
2017 Winnebago Aspect 30J
2013 Jeep
M&G Air Over Hydraulic Brake on Jeep
Air Tank Adapter for braking on RV

Certified Oil Field Trash / Roughneck (5 yr)
Retired Army (20 yr)
Retired Army Civilian (10 yr)

Only Lessons I never forgot, Were taught by my parents, or a Dog.

John/JD

Boat Addict

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  • Posts: 478
Re: Hybrid traditional boat build.
« Reply #40 on: April 11, 2020, 07:41:51 AM »
Oh don't sweat the little stuff. As we say in the boating community in particular when we run aground, be patient, time and tide takes care of everything. That's where I am at. So lets just keep this thread on the fun stuff. But FWIW I have already built a camper boat. And it had everything I needed , including a small generator in it. I traveled from Maine, the Chesepeake Bay and to the Florida Keys on a trailer too and its been beat up on the highway and in the BIG test tank called the washing machine, the ocean. Yes its built to the lightest specs using quality materials and runs on half the hp that's needed for a typical production fiberglass hull in a similar length. While I do not have an engineering degree with some of that fancy wallpaper, life has given me a phd in common sense .  I have  fixed blue suit engineers crap all my life with my hands. Don't feed me a load of manure and blow me off.  >:( >:(
« Last Edit: April 11, 2020, 08:09:33 AM by Boat Addict »

X-Roughneck

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  • Posts: 961
  • 2017 Winnebago Aspect 30J
Re: Hybrid traditional boat build.
« Reply #41 on: April 11, 2020, 09:26:56 AM »
BA, Very nice work. 

Did not mean to poke the bear.  My apologies. 

Just a failed attempt at some dry humor.

JD
2017 Winnebago Aspect 30J
2013 Jeep
M&G Air Over Hydraulic Brake on Jeep
Air Tank Adapter for braking on RV

Certified Oil Field Trash / Roughneck (5 yr)
Retired Army (20 yr)
Retired Army Civilian (10 yr)

Only Lessons I never forgot, Were taught by my parents, or a Dog.

John/JD

Boat Addict

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  • Posts: 478
Re: Hybrid traditional boat build.
« Reply #42 on: April 11, 2020, 09:40:36 AM »
BA, Very nice work. 

Did not mean to poke the bear.  My apologies. 

Just a failed attempt at some dry humor.

JD
I am cool. I just find myself at a dead end street. Of course under normal conditions I may have already witnessed a different outcome. So I look at things from that angle and give people the benefit of the doubt. As I say life goes on. Dwelling on things we have no control over just gives you ulcers  and wrinkles. To date my cup is running over with wrinkles, which is not near as dangerous as ulcers you know.  8) Now to do some artistic work with my dear friend Mr. Porter Cable  at break neck angle speeds of 12,000 rpm.. :))

X-Roughneck

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  • Posts: 961
  • 2017 Winnebago Aspect 30J
Re: Hybrid traditional boat build.
« Reply #43 on: April 11, 2020, 11:16:50 AM »
No Brother, I was wrong. 

I was not trying to make fun of what I know is real pain and aggravating topic for you.

Sorry is all I can say.

I will leave it at that.

John
2017 Winnebago Aspect 30J
2013 Jeep
M&G Air Over Hydraulic Brake on Jeep
Air Tank Adapter for braking on RV

Certified Oil Field Trash / Roughneck (5 yr)
Retired Army (20 yr)
Retired Army Civilian (10 yr)

Only Lessons I never forgot, Were taught by my parents, or a Dog.

John/JD

Boat Addict

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  • Posts: 478
Re: Hybrid traditional boat build.
« Reply #44 on: April 12, 2020, 03:38:51 PM »
I was lucky today and made lots of sanding dust. I got all my chine logs glued up and sanded the faces. Then I had to plane my angles on the keel and the top edge of the chines. I use a block plane, power plane and the finish them off with my grinder, which cleans and trues up the surface.  I use a straight edge to check the angles . My next step will be to make the templates for the chine planking which will be on the sides of course.

magothy1

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  • Posts: 78
Re: Hybrid traditional boat build.
« Reply #45 on: April 13, 2020, 05:26:27 AM »
Nice touch using the level, I had to smile at that one. It's a good straight edge.

Boat Addict

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Re: Hybrid traditional boat build.
« Reply #46 on: April 13, 2020, 04:04:39 PM »
Well a productive day, fitted the first set of planks, now the joints needs to be scarfed and glued together.

Boat Addict

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Re: Hybrid traditional boat build.
« Reply #47 on: August 25, 2020, 05:15:43 PM »
Well I have the bottom planking fitted and one side has its scarf joints cut and ready for glue. The overlap ends gets sanded down and they get glued together.

boatbuilder

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Re: Hybrid traditional boat build.
« Reply #48 on: August 27, 2020, 06:15:49 PM »
Looks good.
Charlie