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Author Topic: Streaming tv  (Read 792 times)

Robert K

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Streaming tv
« on: March 31, 2020, 10:09:47 AM »
Well I picked a bad time to cut the cord with Dish network. I signed up with you tube tv. It is 1/2 the price but 1/2 the chanels.

We don't have any cable out here so I have to use cell phone hotspot. I have Visible so usage is not an issue.

I am using Roku to stream and they are easy to use, but when every one wakes up and starts using phones I loose my streaming on the Roku's. If I watch utube on my other phone and cast to tv it works pretty good at that time.

I bought a cell booster antenna and I get 4-5 bars but can't stream ?
 I also have locast on the Roku and it works early in am but it does nothing after about 8 am.
I can't get locast to work from my phone or I would cast it. It sez I am out of service area which I am , don't no why it connects with Roku.
I guess my question is any ideas on the streaming or is it only so much data going down the virtual pipe.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2020, 10:12:04 AM by Robert K »
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Streaming tv
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2020, 12:05:08 PM »
The 4-5 bars means only that your device can hear the signal from the wifi base station or cell tower. It does not mean your device can successfully send back, which is necessary to complete the "hand shakes" that confirm data delivery. Think of it as a little boy playing catch with an adult man. The man can throw longer and harder than the boy, so a distance that works for him may be much greater than one that works for the boy.

It's also clear that your bandwidth (data volume) is limited, possibly due to frequent errors due to weak signals. At some point the use of data by other devices is limiting the streaming to the point where it is unusable.

It boils down to your pipe cannot handle the amount of data you need to stream and run other devices.  Your booster may be able to compensate if it has a properly aimed and sufficiently high external antenna.  If its just a desktop device with no external antenna, or the antenna is not aimed optimally, it's probably not helping.
Gary
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jims94vmx

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Re: Streaming tv
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2020, 12:29:51 PM »
  you can also download shows for later watching.  I am doing that with an S10e and an hdmi to C cord.....


jackiemac

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Re: Streaming tv
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2020, 01:10:30 PM »
We use an Amazon fire stick to cast to TV.

We download everything to avoid streaming issues. We either do this during the day or when out at Starbucks etc. (Obviously this might not happen at the moment).

It amazes me anyone can stream at RV parks as most seem have limited wifi or throttle signal we find.
Jackie n Steve - Happy Scottish Travellers

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Robert K

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Re: Streaming tv
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2020, 03:19:30 PM »
I figured it's the you can only get so much thru the pipe.
  The booster I am using is an outdoor with an amplifier in the house. It does boost the signal from 2 bars  to 4 -5 if you are near it. I leave my dedicated hot spot phone near it so it has a strong signal.
   I guess its just all the people with nothing else to do on there phones.
  It works great early in the morning.
Bob&Sandy
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Tom

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Re: Streaming tv
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2020, 03:23:24 PM »
Fire TV stick is, of course, a streaming device. We have a number of them for use on different TVs at home and in the coach, and use them extensively. We have cable at our S&B home base, and DSL at our summer lot. On occasion, we have to connect via VZW Jetpack, and see the usage rack up.
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ChasA

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Re: Streaming tv
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2020, 04:05:42 PM »
I think Gary is right. The bars do not indicate how much data you can put through the pipe.
As an example: this past weekend, we streamed about 12 hours from Amazon. Never a missing pixel. The little stair-step signal strength indicator showed just one bar but 4G. I was using my VZW unlimited plan, streaming from my samsung tablet to a Roku dongle.
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NY_Dutch

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Re: Streaming tv
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2020, 04:25:48 PM »
We're on a campsite right now where we're getting ~30 Mbps speeds with our AT&T hotspot, but we're still seeing very brief 1-2 second buffering with our Firestick from time to time. Between all the working from home folks and all the bored kids getting online during the day, I'm not really surprised. Tomorrow we'll arrive at our upstate NY cottage, and it'll be interesting to see how well the Spectrum cable Internet is working there. AT&T and Verizon are both quite strong there too, so at least we'll have some choices. I may look into some channel bonding options while we're laying low to see how that works out...
Dutch
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jackiemac

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Re: Streaming tv
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2020, 05:46:52 PM »
Fire TV stick is, of course, a streaming device. We have a number of them for use on different TVs at home and in the coach, and use them extensively. We have cable at our S&B home base, and DSL at our summer lot. On occasion, we have to connect via VZW Jetpack, and see the usage rack up.
Ou firestick doesn't need the wifi to web, only between devices I think...
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8Muddypaws

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Re: Streaming tv
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2020, 07:03:35 PM »
Weeks before we are going on an extended trip I start downloading 'stuff' to watch.  We've only been in one place recently where there was enough bandwidth to suppler streaming.  We were less than 1/4 mile from the biggest Dang cell tower I've ever seen.
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Tom

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Re: Streaming tv
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2020, 07:06:52 PM »
Quote from: jackiemac
Ou firestick doesn't need the wifi to web, only between devices I think...

To clarify, our Firestick devices all receive a wireless signal, from whatever source. In our cases, the source is one of the following (we use all 3, actually 4, depending on the location):

- Router hard wired to a cable internet service.

- Router hard wired to a DSL internet service.

- Wireless modem with internet service provided by Verizon or AT&T.

Amazon also sells an optional ethernet adapter that allows the Fire TV stick to be hard wired (plugged in) to a router instead of relying on a wireless signal. This might be what you have (?)
« Last Edit: March 31, 2020, 07:26:25 PM by Tom »
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jackiemac

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Re: Streaming tv
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2020, 04:41:43 AM »

To clarify, our Firestick devices all receive a wireless signal, from whatever source. In our cases, the source is one of the following (we use all 3, actually 4, depending on the location):

- Router hard wired to a cable internet service.

- Router hard wired to a DSL internet service.

- Wireless modem with internet service provided by Verizon or AT&T.

Amazon also sells an optional ethernet adapter that allows the Fire TV stick to be hard wired (plugged in) to a router instead of relying on a wireless signal. This might be what you have (?)
No, it's just an HDMI connection into the TV. 

We are not connected to the internet at all whilst using it using downloaded stuff on phone or tablet and casting to TV, unless we want to be.  You need an app that can do it though like Amazon Prime Video or Netflix etc.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2020, 05:21:12 AM by jackiemac »
Jackie n Steve - Happy Scottish Travellers

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Tom

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Re: Streaming tv
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2020, 08:55:10 AM »
Thanks Jackie. Sounds like a different use of the same device.

Quote
using downloaded stuff on phone or tablet
If we didn't have good internet connections, that might be a good option. Meanwhile, we merely let amazon store all that stuff.

Quote
it's just an HDMI connection into the TV. 
Aye, the Fire TV stick is an HDMI device.
 
Quote
You need an app that can do it though like Amazon Prime Video or Netflix etc.


Yep, we use amazon Prime for all our streaming needs.

We also stream to our tablets/iPad with Amazon Prime. I only use that when I want to watch something in bed (use headphones not to disturb Chris). Again, it's live streaming, and I don't store any of it locally.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2020, 09:09:40 AM by Tom »
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UTTransplant

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Re: Streaming tv
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2020, 11:07:38 AM »
Like Jackie, we try to keep some downloaded videos stored on our devices. I download wherever we have a good signal, then watch them later using a lightning/HDMI adaptor for my iPad. I mostly use Amazon for my videos too including my non-Amazon subscriptions. Not everything can be downloaded, but I can usually find a few interesting items. We are too often in locations with non-existent data. When we do get to a place with good data, we feel decadent!
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Isaac-1

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Re: Streaming tv
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2020, 11:26:42 AM »
Depending on the device and service you are using there are a few tricks you can play if you don't care about having HD quality.

1st Roku has a hidden menu feature to manually set lower bitrate settings.

Press the Home button five times, then press Rewind three times, and then press Fast Forward two times.

This should take you to a Bit Rate Override menu. Choose “Manual selection” and then select a maximum bit rate.  A bit rate of 5Mbps will use about 2.25GB of data per hour.

You can un-throttle your video quality by returning to this menu and selecting “Automatic.”

see https://www.techtimes.com/articles/162197/20160531/access-secret-menus-roku-device.htm

Though not all apps respect the Roku bitrate settings, some of these apps will allow you to manually throttle in a similar way, though again this feature is often hidden.  Netflix will let you do this, but it requires changes in your netflix profile done through a web browser in your account.  For when we are traveling to a slow internet signal locations, I have set up an extra profile, called low bandwidth, with the manual bitrate settings turned down.  Modern programming may be nearly unwatchable at these settings, however when you are watching a 30+ year old sitcom, one hardly notices.
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zulu

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Re: Streaming tv
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2020, 09:35:57 AM »
I have Visible so usage is not an issue.

I am using Roku to stream and they are easy to use, but when every one wakes up and starts using phones I loose my streaming on the Roku's.

I guess my question is any ideas on the streaming or is it only so much data going down the virtual pipe.

I have Visible, too, and would never rely on it for my one-and-only cellular data plan.

"Unlimited" Visible is limited to speeds < 5 Mbps, 480p video, always network managed, and doesn't use the "best" Verizon networks. I can attest to that as I also have an older 40GB Verizon plan that consistently outperforms Visible.

In short, you could fill your RV with "boosters", but with Visible, even if you receive a good signal, Visible is at best a standby data plan.
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Streaming tv
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2020, 10:00:13 AM »
Zulu makes a good point. Any 3rd party service that runs on the Verizon (or AT&T or Sprint) network rarely enjoys the full capability of the native network. The network owner is selling excess capacity to the 3rd party service, so there are restrictions on how much bandwidth the 3rd party customers can use.   Especially at peak demand times.  Further, the network owner may have reciprocal sharing agreements to use another company's network in selected area; those agreements allow their own customers to operate there but do not extend to the 3rd party users.
Gary
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Robert K

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Re: Streaming tv
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2020, 02:46:39 PM »
Zulu and Gary those are probably valid points.
Maybe I will try my wifes verizon phone , she has that extra 15 gb of data she will never use.
My phone is a company phone and did not get the extra data.
I will let you know if I see a difference.

 Ike I tried that with the Roku and saw a small improvement.
Bob&Sandy
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NY_Dutch

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Re: Streaming tv
« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2020, 08:40:52 PM »
Zulu makes a good point. Any 3rd party service that runs on the Verizon (or AT&T or Sprint) network rarely enjoys the full capability of the native network. The network owner is selling excess capacity to the 3rd party service, so there are restrictions on how much bandwidth the 3rd party customers can use.   Especially at peak demand times.  Further, the network owner may have reciprocal sharing agreements to use another company's network in selected area; those agreements allow their own customers to operate there but do not extend to the 3rd party users.

Just to be clear, the Visible service is not a third-party service in the usual sense since it's a Verizon owned product. That said, it does have limitations such as using Verizon LTE towers only with no 3G fallback. We have seen speeds well above the 5 Mbps limit that Visible originally imposed, but that's due to the current no speed limit offer for new and existing customers that could end at any time. As said, Visible works pretty well as a backup to a primary service. During our winter stint in Georgia and Florida, there was only one park where we used Visible as our primary since it was faster than our AT&T hotspot there.
Dutch
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Robert K

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Re: Streaming tv
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2020, 07:17:17 AM »
I did test with open signal my Verizon phone numbers download 4.70 upload 3.49 latency 46 ms
 my visible phone 665 download latency 324 ms it doesn't complete the test for upload.
This is with both showing 5 bars 4G
And this is Western NY 50 miles from Buffalo or Rochester. That govener of ours is always talking about spending money to get connected for every one but must not include us. Cable lines are within a mile of our house but they won't run them our way.
Bob&Sandy
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Tom_M

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Re: Streaming tv
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2020, 07:37:02 AM »
I have been using Visible since last June. My service started out with a 5 Mb/s speed cap but later Visible removed the cap. It is my only phone and data source and it has been great. I have traveled extensively. Last August mainly in Montana and Wyoming. In areas where I could get cell service there were only a couple places that Visible did not work because of roaming. Last fall I traveled from Minneapolis to Arizona and in December moved to Florida and had no problems. Visible currently has a service called 'Party Pay' which can bring your monthly cost down to $25 which includes all fees and taxes. This is for unlimited everything including hotspot use. Visible is 4G only but since Verizon plans on shutting down 3G the end of this year it is not much of an issue.
Tom
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zulu

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Re: Streaming tv
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2020, 12:17:02 PM »
The definitive source: MIRC
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Robert K

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Re: Streaming tv
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2020, 08:37:03 AM »
Yesterday I lost all data service on my visible r2 phone. I switched the sim card to my s6 i phone still nothing. Chatted with visible and tried a couple of things and he said he tried a couple things and now my service is better.
It still is not 5 mbs but around 3 on download.
By going back to the I Phone I can connect more devices to it instead of gl repeater which helps.

   Have thought about getting a Verizon unlimited line @ $80 but wonder how much it is throttled after the limit. My biggest use is tv no gaming.
Bob&Sandy
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docj

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Re: Streaming tv
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2020, 09:10:53 AM »
Zulu makes a good point. Any 3rd party service that runs on the Verizon (or AT&T or Sprint) network rarely enjoys the full capability of the native network. The network owner is selling excess capacity to the 3rd party service, so there are restrictions on how much bandwidth the 3rd party customers can use.   Especially at peak demand times.  Further, the network owner may have reciprocal sharing agreements to use another company's network in selected area; those agreements allow their own customers to operate there but do not extend to the 3rd party users.

This is all very true (with the already noted correction that Visible is a Verizon-owned product), but I wanted to point out to people that it is possible to reliably stream on these sorts of connections if you use a somewhat more sophisticated router capable of load balancing.  Load balancing routers aren't all that much more expensive than the ordinary kind, but they are capable of using multiple internet connections simultaneously and switching from one to another on a moment by moment basis in order to use the fastest one available at that moment

Even the best cellular internet connection varies its speed from one moment to the next.  If you want to see a graphic display of that try using the speed test called "Speed of Me".  What load balancing lets you do is take advantage of the fact that the "ups and downs" of different internet connections usually don't occur at the same time so that, if one connection slows down, it's likely that an other one will be faster at that moment. 

Load balancing is different a from related feature called "connection bonding" in which the speeds of different connections are added together, but bonding requires a significantly more expensive setup to implement and I think it's outside of what most of us are probably prepared to spend.

As an example of what I can do on a practical basis with load balancing, I currently have 3 low-cost cellular connections all of which have the issues discussed in previous posts.  I have a prepaid unlimited Verizon cellular Jetpack (not available to new customers), a Visible phone used as a hotspot, and a slow T-Mobile connection from OTR Mobile.  In addition I have our RV park's wifi which can be quite good (when it works).  I have all of these connected to a load balancing router and we stream all our video off of them.  Even with the internet slowdown that has occured during this virus crisis we rarely get paused during our videos and, if we do, it's only for a moment.  I admit that this setup is a bit excessive, but, if I didn't have a commercial interest in the topic, I could easily drop back to two internet connections and would be very satisfied. 

In order to avoid having this labeled a commercial post I'm not going to discuss specific hardware.  There are several companies that market routers capable of load balancing and you can read about them at the Mobile Internet Resource Center or you can PM me for more information.

Joel (AKA docj)
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SeilerBird

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Re: Streaming tv
« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2020, 09:26:05 AM »
Thanks for the Speed of Me website recommendation. Pretty cool. :))