Would it be a mistake to get a MH with a P30 chassis?

Hello all,
  We have been looking at small Class A motor homes and think the 2003 30? Winnebago Sightseer Chevy is about right (we don?t want the Ford V10). I think it has a P30 chassis. I have been reading all the forum info and know I may have to deal with problems such as the front air bags, the bell crank, rear anti-sway bar, shocks, etc. I am willing to do this if in the end I get a MH that doesn?t wander and sway. My wife will be driving also and we want a MH that is pleasant to drive rather than one that fights us all day long.
    On the forum I read that some of the members prefer the ride of a front independent suspension. Sometimes we will be towing at the upper weight limit of the P30. We don?t want to go to a longer MH. I see that workhorse has discontinued the P30 chassis. Would it be a big mistake to get a MH with this chassis?

I could be wrong in this but I always thought the P30 chassis was a GM product, at least I get my parts from a GM dealer. I belive that the Workhorse chassis replaced the P30, and is also a GM product, at at least was at one time. Again, I could be wrong.
Most of the wandering problems with P30 is caused by the long overhang behind a single rear axle in the 33-36 foot motorhomes. Shorter motorhomes or those with dual rear axles do not seem to be nearly as bad.
I have a 93 Fleetwood Pace Arrow 34' on a P30 chassis and I solved most of my wandering problems with new bellcranks and a front stabilizer bar. Traveling with near empty water and holding tanks (which are all at the rear) helps quite a bit also. I inflate my rear airbags to 70-80 lbs too, gives a little rougher ride but helps with the rear sway.


Woody

This page gives the history of the Workhorse Chassis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workhorse_Custom_Chassis#Motorhome It sounds like they bought it from GM and used the P30 chassis on the smaller MH until 2005. I may be wrong.

Would it be a big mistake to get a MH with this chassis?

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No, but the the Workhorse W series chassis is a better choice, I think.

As Keyman stated, Workhorse took over the P30 RV chassis from GM in 1998 and subsequently improved it somewhat. Workhorse also developed a new RV chassis from the ground up and called it the Workhorse W series chassis, originally the W20 and W22 but now expanded with the lighter duty W16 & W18 models. With the advent of the smaller W chassis, Workhorse discontinued the P30.

By 2003 Workhorse had fixed most of the inherited problems in the P30. They changed over to the excellent 8.1L GM V8 engine, increased the front wheel track (made it wider), designed new front air bags, beefed up the front suspension for more capacity, improved the sway bar and, I am told,  they finally replaced the sloppy old Chevy bell crank with a decent quality component.  Not sure exactly when that last one actually happened, though.  But the bell crank need not be an issue if you get an older one - simply replace it with the Henderson Supersteer Bell Crank. It's not a difficult or expensive fix.

Whether a motorhome on this chassis wanders or sways depends a lot of the way the body weight is distributed, both from the factory and in subsequent loading. You can also affect it somewhat by changing the pressure in the P30 front air bags and the tires too. Some rigs handle quite nicely right from the manufacturer and some need some help. I think by 2003, though, the odds were fairly good that a medium sized Class A on a P30 would handle decently.  But if you could find one on a W20 the chances would be better yet.

You indicated you do not want a Ford, but the F53 Ford chassis with V10 and 4 speed auto is an excellent choice for this size motorhome too.

Thanks for the great info. It sounds like I would have to go to a newer MH (I guess about 2005) to get the W series chassis on a 30' MH. 2003 or 2004 will probably be as new of a MH that we will be able to afford. There are other MH that have a very similar floor plan as the sightseer but they too will probably be on the P30 chassis, so I guess we are stuck with it. It's nice to know that by 2003 they had fixed so many of the problems that I have been reading about.

Well the P30 was indeed a GM chassis, and I think Workhorse has taken it over.  There is one problem with the P-30 that I know of and that is their Auto-Park Brake.  If you are going to buy one you need to find out the procedure for overriding the Auto-Park (It is not all that hard) just in case.  Assorted switches and such can make it fail and unlike the RV in the movie of the same name, when the brake fails it won't roll over the other cars... It won't roll at ALL (the brake fails LOCKED)

But as I said, fairly easy to override it from what I understand.  Just make sure you download and print out the procedure

There are assorted cures and a few spare parts you shoudl carry.  That's about it, otherwise it's a good chassis.

And the world's fastest motor home is a GM.. Did you know that?

John,

>>But as I said, fairly easy to override it from what I understand.  Just make sure you download and print out the procedure<<


Could you tell me where to download the instructions to override the autopark on the driveshaft ??
Not sure when I would need to do that but would like to know how if I ever do. Nothing in my manuals mentions that at all.


Woody

Woody:

I drove a 1983 P30 Pace Arrow without ever having a problem with the autopark.

Jeff,

I've had my 93 for 4 years now and haven't ever gotten into a situation where I would need to leave the gearshift selector in Park but have the motorhome free wheeling, if that is what overriding it would do.

Woody

I just went through the following series of events. Several steps are deleted for brevity.  I was seriously considering a 1999 MH, powered with Vortec Chevy engine.  I spoke with Chevy medium truck rep.  He ran the VIN#.  Up shot of this was the MH was built on a P series chassis.  Dont know which one, he couldnt tell me.  But the most telling item was that the chassis was designed to accomodate 19500 Lbs.  Thats the GVWR quoted.  He then told me that that was also the GCWR.  In other words, it can't safely pull a toad.  The mfgr spec said almost the same thing.  GCWR (21000) - GVWR (19500) = 1500 lbs towing capacity.  Needless to say, that won't do!!  The same model, built on a FORD chassis with 6.8L engine, according to the mgtr specs:  GCWR (25000) - GVWR(20500) - 5000 lbs towing capacity.  I anyone has words of wisdom on this, I would like to hear them.  I found a Ford chassis MH of similar model, and I will be taking possession this Wed.  The newer units don't seem to have this spec discrepancy.

JimF-K9HV

Sounds like you are lucky you caught the lack of towing capacity.

Woody said:

Could you tell me where to download the instructions to override the autopark on the driveshaft ??
Not sure when I would need to do that but would like to know how if I ever do. Nothing in my manuals mentions that at all.

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Well... I will look for it.. We may have it (TOM Step in here please) in our libraries here, But I know it's on one or two other places I visit... I just have to find it and log it.. Since I don't,  have a "P"  IT is likely something I should keep on hand though since I haul a fairly decent tool box with me

On www.rvnet.com they have a user in the forums "olduserbear" who is an expert in Auto-Park, However since there are a few different systems he has not posted it public, but requires you contact him.  From what I am seeing the #1 problem is a sensor that can be easiley changed out, #2 is an adjustment and totaly disabling is easy.  However since as I said, I don't have a P-30

Also, it appears some P-30s may have a standard pedal or lever operated brake instead of the auto park.

With any chassis the important thing is to not overbuild upon it.. One of the contributing factors in the Ford Explorers rollover issue a few years back is that the body is a class heavier than the frame,  There were other design consideratiosn as well and one tire issue: Ford's suggestion it run 5 PSI low to soften the ride.    I do not blame Firestone at all.

Using the Advanced search link above turns up a couple of discussions relating to autopark, but I don't know how relevant they are. (Try searching as one word, then as two words). I don't see anything in our library relating to this subject.

I was seriously considering a 1999 MH, powered with Vortec Chevy engine.  I spoke with Chevy medium truck rep.  He ran the VIN#.  Up shot of this was the MH was built on a P series chassis.  Dont know which one, he couldnt tell me.  But the most telling item was that the chassis was designed to accomodate 19500 Lbs.  Thats the GVWR quoted.  He then told me that that was also the GCWR.  In other words, it can't safely pull a toad.  The mfgr spec said almost the same thing.  GCWR (21000) - GVWR (19500) = 1500 lbs towing capacity.  Needless to say, that won't do!!  The same model, built on a FORD chassis with 6.8L engine, according to the mgtr specs:  GCWR (25000) - GVWR(20500) - 5000 lbs towing capacity.  I anyone has words of wisdom on this, I would like to hear them.  I found a Ford chassis MH of similar model, and I will be taking possession this Wed.  The newer units don't seem to have this spec discrepancy.

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The 1999 P-series chassis was available in a couple different GVWR ranges but the one you looked at apparently was the largest one. Chevrolet had severely neglected the motorhome chassis business for several years and the specs had fallen behind the RV industry's needs in both GVWR and GCWR. Workhorse bought the P-chassis business from Chevrolet in early 99 but had to produce the P30 "as is" until their engineers could make improvements, which began to become available the following year but did not make major advances until around 2002-2003. The Ford chassis is a much better choice in the 1996-2001 time frame.

Thanks Tom,  I searched too, and like you found nothing here,  I searched two other fouums and the only thing I found was the reference to contacting the user who's name I posted up thread.

From scanning dozens of posts it seems the most common failure is a switch, and it's easy to replace.  you can back off the brakes manually if you need to, Some folks have disabled the system.  However most do not suggest it save as an emergency measure

If you want to know why watch the movie RV.. The rental company told Robin he must have damaged the auto=park linkage (Trust me he did not they disabled it and lied to him)


It was a good gimick for the movie.. But alas, I know what part of the rig he damaged turning around and knocking over mail boxes, and I know where the auto-park is located.... Not a chance.  Not even close.

But it was still a good gimick for the movie.

They changed over to the excellent 8.1L GM V8 engine, increased the front wheel track (made it wider),

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Thanks for the help,
RV Roame, do you know how much wider they made the front wheel track? What was the new width measurment?

According to the Workhorse Chassis Guide, the P32 chassis front wheel track for all 1999 models was 69.7". For 2000 it was increased to 82.95" (a whopping 13" increase!) in 15k, 17k and 18k GVWRs. The 12,300 and 14,800 GVWRS remained at 69.7".

By the way, the Workhorse chassis guide shows 16,500 as the top GVWR in 1999, with a GCWR of 21000. Some P32 may have had a tag axle added to increase GVWR, but this would generally not increase the GCWR. Workhorse beefed up the GVWR with 17k and 18k models in 2000 but the GCWR limit remained unchanged. There was never a 19,500 lb version of the chassis unless perhaps a motorhome manufacturer modified it with a tag axle.

You mention the "Whopping 13 inches" increase in track width, However the "Wide Track" Concept over at GM and it appears Workhorse... Is part of the reason that I've seen a Chevy Tahoe chase down a Corvette (The othe part was a skilled driver in the chase vehicle and an idiot in the chased,,, The Royal Blue with gold accents paint job on the Police Tahoe) but I've never seen a Ford Exploader, ur, Explorer do that and remain upright.

Was rather funny seening an SUV overtake and stop a Corvette... And I had a ringside (Camera operator's) seat.. Wish we had taped it!