Issues found in inspection

Hi folks,

We're planning to buy our first RV.  We found one that we liked and had it inspected by an NRVIA inspector.  The inspection found a number of issues (probably unsurprising for a 20 year old RV).  Since we're new to this, I'd very much appreciate feedback on some of those issues.

The RV is a 2000 Harney Coach Renegade Diesel Class A (37 feet).  The asking price was $31K.

Background info: We're a family of 4 with children ages 4 and 9.  I'm a software developer currently working from home due to the coronavirus pandemic.  We'd like to try going full-time or mostly full-time in the RV (probably not permanently, more like 3 months to a year) so I can work from the road while we visit different areas around the country, National Parks, etc.

Roof water damage
The roof appears to have water damage in two places: near the kitchen vent and the bathroom skylight.  The roof appears to have subsequently been sealed so there is likely not an active leak in these areas.

Replacing the roof would be quite expensive (probably close to $10K, we understand).  So our plan would be just to make sure it continues to be sealed, but otherwise not address the existing water damage.

Tires
The ad said "new" tires, but per the inspection they are certainly not new - the date on them indicates they are from the third to fifth week of 2011.  The seller claims the tires have low mileage on them, that he only put 5000 miles on them in the past three years since purchasing the RV from the previous owner who said they had low mileage on them.  He also claims that tires don't age much from the weather in this region (Seattle area) when they aren't in use.

The inspection report lists all the tires as in acceptable condition, with the exception of one which is listed as in Fair condition due to some cracking in the sidewall.

How urgent is it to replace the tires if they are "old" but apparently have not had too many miles and appear to be in OK condition?  I understand that replacing tires is rather expensive, ie $500+ per tire for six tires.

Batteries
The house batteries (4 6-volt batteries) do not seem to be in good shape.  The voltage of the batteries was measured at 11.3 volts (apparently even when charging).  The inverter panel indicated low voltage and a fault code after operating for a while. 

The seller has offered to replace the batteries as part of the sale.  I understand that wet cell batteries can be from around $100 to $400 each.  How could I evaluate whether the batteries the seller would put in are "good"?  If we were to replace the batteries ourselves, what types of batteries and what price range should we be looking for?

Windshield crack
The passenger side window is significantly cracked, though it is restricted to the curved portion of the glass on the side.  There is tape over the crack, and I think the current owner has been using it like that for the past 3 years that he's owned the RV.  I've attached a picture of the cracked windshield.

He provided a quote he got for $811 for the replacement glass pane.  With labor to install it, the price would probably be $1200 or more.

How urgent would it be to replace this windshield?

Resealing
Some seals were in fair condition and others were in poor condition.  The inspector recommended that the entire RV should probably be resealed.  An RV repair shop gave me a rough estimate of $2000 for parts and labor for a full resealing.

The seller suggested it could be a lot cheaper if I were to look for a handy man on craigslist to do the work.  I?m pretty skeptical that would be a good idea.  Thoughts?

Since the Seattle area is fairly expensive, and the RV is mobile, I?m wondering if it would make sense to look for an area of the country where the cost of living is lower in order to have the repair work done.  Would that make sense?  Have other RV owners from areas with a relatively high cost of living tried this?

Fluid analysis
The engine is a Caterpillar diesel rear engine with 78,500 miles on it.  The inspection included taking fluid samples from the engine (and generator) and sending them off to a lab for analysis.

However, it will take up to 7 business days to get the results back.  Everything in the engine looked good (or "acceptable" in the inspection report terminology), and I understand that diesel engines generally last a long time.  How likely is it that the fluid analysis results would turn up any issues?  I know I probably shouldn't rush an RV purchase, but we are eager to get it if everything else works out.

Once again, thanks for any feedback you can provide!

By the time you end up fixing all of the problems you will have spent a fortune. You should keep looking and find a newer RV in much better shape. If one of those old tires has a blow out it would be radically more expensive. A blow out on a RV can do thousands of dollars in damages to the exterior and to water lines and electrical wires being damaged.

The tires need to be replaced as Tom said. Generally the life span is 6 to 8 years. NH has a vehicle inspection program and this MH would not pass because of the windshield.
The seller has told you a lot of information which is false so how much has he not told you about. I would walk and walk fast. He wants to get rid of it fast

The roof is usually ok as long as it isn't currently leaking and no significant soft spots.  But what about interior damage from the previous leaks? That water was going somewhere inside, floor, walls, etc. 

The tires are 9.5 years old and most of the major tire makers agree that 10 years is the max useful life.  Using then for even one more trip is a large gamble because a blow-out has a good chance of causing body damage as well as the loss of the tire itself. Not to mention the hassle of getting stranded on the road somewhere.  I'd replace the tires immediately.


The batteries are worthless and need to be replaced. New 6v GC2 "golf car" batteries run $100-$125 each if you DIY. Brand isn't important - lead acid batteries are a commodity.  Costco or Sam's Club is a good source, but even Walmart is ok a long as they are GC2 6v golf car batteries.

The windshield is truly urgent only if the state where you will register it requires an undamaged windshield.  But would you really drive around with a tape covered, broken windshield? Surely you are going to fix it, so why postpone?

Engine oil analysis can only spot a few immediate issues; it's more useful when repeated annually and trends noted.  Still, I'd make the purchase contingent on an acceptable oil analysis report. If you decide to proceed, just give a deposit and wait for the report.

Frankly, this motorhome has all the signs of a lot of neglect and that makes it a poor bet. You would be much better off increasing your budget by $10k and avoid gambling on this one with its many obvious faults and probably more that are unknown.  Would you buy a house that had that many obvious and substantial flaws?  Probably not!  The Harney was a low budget model when new and it clearly has not been well-preserved.  I recommend you pass on this one.

The ad said "new" tires, but per the inspection they are certainly not new - the date on them indicates they are from the third to fifth week of 2011.

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As said above, you'll want new tires. The 9 year old tires on there, regardless of appearance, are time bombs. When a tire blows on an RV you risk considerable damage to the rig. It can take out plumbing, wiring, and parts of other systems, potentially being several thousand dollars in repairs needed.

The house batteries (4 6-volt batteries) do not seem to be in good shape.  The voltage of the batteries was measured at 11.3 volts (apparently even when charging).

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11.3V when charging would indicate to me that the charging system itself isn't working properly, if at all, and the batteries aren't getting charged. So considerable time and expense may be needed to make it right.

And you have several other things in there that are not right, plus it seems that you can't trust anything the seller said. So take the advice of Tom, Gary and Rene above and walk away. The inspection you had done has much more than paid for itself in saving you future expense and unhappiness (if you heed it), so get that glitter out of your eyes and look elsewhere. There are definitely some gems out there, but you have to sift through a lot of dogs to find them.

Hi folks,

Thanks for the advice so far.

The asking price was $31K.  Based off of the inspection results I figured I'd be spending $8.5K or so to fix the major issues, so I offered $20K.  The seller's current offer is $26K and replacing the batteries with new ones.

I'm sure that if I increase the budget to $40K or so I can find something that would be good for us without all these issues.  But if I'm able to pay closer to $20K for the RV itself, does the advice to look elsewhere still stand?

Gary says that the Harney was a low budget model.  One of the things that was attractive about this RV is that it has a Caterpillar diesel engine (and an Allison transmission).  I believed that the engine and transmission at least are high quality.  Is that the case or not?

Thanks,
Daniel

I'm sure that if I increase the budget to $40K or so I can find something that would be good for us without all these issues.  But if I'm able to pay closer to $20K for the RV itself, does the advice to look elsewhere still stand?

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You can find a good deal at $20k but it will lake a few months of searching both online and in the real world. It is still a low budget model no matter what is under the hood.

The fluid analyses for the engine and tranny may, or may not indicate potential trouble, but the engine hoses and accessories are 20 years old, and you can expect to have to deal with them soon. Based on what I've read here, this RV was not well maintained, and if it were me, I'd pass on it. JMO

Kev

I too agree with what has been said above, though I will note that on the topic of batteries, almost all that are on the market are fair to good products, though some are better than others. ie a $160 Trojan T-105 6V golf cart battery is going to out perform a $90 house brand 6V battery from a warehouse store.  There is a reason many / most golf courses uses Trojan batteries in their golf carts, having said that bang for the buck wire the $90 battery may be the better buy for most people.

I would not necessarily walk but I think you are getting in the ballpark on price. $26k is an emotional number for him probably.

You absolutely have to be prepared to walk. I would personally go no more than $22.5k - This gives you a good budget to fix the things needing fixing.

1 - Roof leak / damage - As Gary said, make sure the inspector and/or you looked at the walls and areas around the repairs - this one would be a shop stopper for me.

2 - Batteries - Don't let him change the batteries. It sounds like he is doing something nice but unless you get to choose the batteries he is likely to put something cheap in.

3 - Engine - You are probably OK here as well enough as anywhere else - You can never know for sure if the engine/tranny is gonna blow up in 1,000 miles.  I would take it to a shop if you are concerned and have it examined.

4 - Tires - They are done. Don't ride your family around on old tires.  Not worth it.

5 - Windshield crack - Fix it as soon as you buy the vehicle, if you buy it.

I also agree with Gary that this sounds like lack of use and neglect - He bought from a PO and the tires were old then? What else is on it's last legs?  Appliances, charger/converter, water heater, fridge etc. etc.

How long has he owned it and why is he selling?

Have you considered going a couple years older, a little smaller and a lot cheaper for your first foray into RVs? I got a slightly smaller gas one for less than half of his $31k asking... I too got a mechanics special and was able to do the repair work myself to the tine of about $4,000... I still have way less than comparable used asking prices for similar RVs.

Not my business but is the floorplan exactly what you guys want/need? How many RVs have you looked at?  Don't fall in love until you own it.

Good luck!

Ex-Calif said:

1 - Roof leak / damage - As Gary said, make sure the inspector and/or you looked at the walls and areas around the repairs - this one would be a shop stopper for me.

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There are soft spots on the roof in two places.  That's the roof water damage I mentioned.

Inside the RV, there is some staining of the ceiling.  The inspector found that wall between the bathroom and bedroom was soft, and there was staining above it, so I'm sure there's water damage in that wall.  The other interior walls were all fine though.

Externally, a section of the side wall on one of the sliders is bowing out, which is likely from water damage inside.

The inspection report was very thorough (or at least it seems like it to me).

I also agree with Gary that this sounds like lack of use and neglect - He bought from a PO and the tires were old then? What else is on it's last legs?  Appliances, charger/converter, water heater, fridge etc. etc.

How long has he owned it and why is he selling?

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He says he has owned it 3 years, went to Disneyland several times with his family, and is selling it because he got an upgraded RV.  I'm not sure how much that lines up with the fact that he says he only put 5000 miles on the tires.

Have you considered going a couple years older, a little smaller and a lot cheaper for your first foray into RVs? I got a slightly smaller gas one for less than half of his $31k asking... I too got a mechanics special and was able to do the repair work myself to the tine of about $4,000... I still have way less than comparable used asking prices for similar RVs.

Not my business but is the floorplan exactly what you guys want/need? How many RVs have you looked at?  Don't fall in love until you own it.

Good luck!

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We're planning to travel around the country, probably for at least 6 weeks (and if we like it, it could be way longer).  If we were just going on weekend or weeklong trips we could probably start with a smaller RV, but as it is we want something fairly large for our family of 4.

We've looked at a bunch of RVs online and gone to see about 5 of them in person.  The bed that class C RVs usually have above the cab would be great for the kids, but there's a lot more storage space under the RV in class As.  We've seen a few listings for class As that have bunk beds, which would also be great for the kids, but those seem pretty rare.

As far as doing the repairs ourselves, I'm not a super handy type of guy, so we'll pretty much have to rely on paying for the work to be done.

Thanks!

I would recommend that you verify that a replacement windshield is even available.

I had a slide in camper with a roof ding.  Small staining inside above the bed and soft spots on the front left corner.

When I opened it up the wall 1X1 framing stringers were shredded moldy dust. It was terrible. I ended up scrapping the camper.

You may keep it or as you say you may sell it on in six months - Imagine the next buyer looking at it...

Run, run, as fast as you can...

I will address only the tires.  VERY FEW RV tires wear out.. They AGE out.  and 9 years is TOO OLD TOO OLD.

I am told (But have not confirmed) that if you get in an accendent in one state with tires that old you will be cited for over age tires.... As I said I did not attempt to confirm.   

Most RV tires however never wear out. they just age out people argue about how fast but none like to keep 'em 9 years.

With this added information about roof and wall condition, etc. I say RUN AWAY, and be VERY glad you paid for the inspection.  Keep shopping, and if you are not going to be spending a lot of time in the mountain states, really give some consideration to a 33-34 ft gas class A built in the 2000's, something on the Workhorse W series chassis with the 8.1L built after 2001 or on the Ford F53 built after 2006.  They will be a lot cheaper to maintain than a diesel if you are only planning on using 6-8 weeks per year.

As to the rest of the stuff, there are a whole lot of components that age out on an RV at around the 12-15 year point, these are mostly things with rubber components, which includes belts and hoses, as well as various suspension and steering bushings, diaphragm in the propane regulator, ...  You also tend to start seeing failure of RV appliances around the 15 year mark, though some last longer, my coach is 19 years old now, and many, but not all of these rubber parts along with the refrigerator were replaced by the previous owner who put $10,000 in parts alone into the coach in the two years preceding my purchase of it in 2016.  Even with that I have spent a few thousand dollars on additional repairs and upgrades, mostly doing my own work except for the heavy lifting stuff as I have a bad back.    Notably this has included about $750 spent on the dash air conditioner just after I bought it (which has failed again on our last trip 6 months ago), $1,500 on new ball joints, $250 new fan clutch, $145 new Alternator, $ 70 and a whole lot of hours and expletives replacing the generator starter,  $750 having new hard line fabricated for the automatic parking brake (pin hole leak), as well as various upgrades (LED lighting, sink faucet, new toilet, magneshade windshield cover, ...)

Next year I already have $3,000 in the repair budget not counting the dash air conditioner, this includes new tires, as mine will turn 7 years old this fall, possibly a new roof air conditioners,  The next year if all goes well I will spend $1,900 getting some mostly cosmetic paint and minor body issues repaired, ...

So to put it another way, buying an RV is just a drop in the bucket when compared to ongoing costs of ownership, therefore buy the coach in the best condition you can find when you do.

Very well stated Isaac ) ) )

Isaac-1 said:

With this added information about roof and wall condition, etc. I say RUN AWAY, and be VERY glad you paid for the inspection.

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I could not agree more. Now THAT is an inspection that paid for itself. Maybe send the guy a tip.

You want to find an RV that has been cared for and maintained by the previous owner. Not one that has been neglected and ignored, as it sounds like this one has.

Caterpillar diesel engine (and an Allison transmission).  I believed that the engine and transmission at least are high quality.  Is that the case or not?

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Yes they are, but any other diesel older motorhome you find will likley be equipped the same.And the mechanical condition is critical, no matter what the original equipment.

It seems every time you respond about something another problem is listed. Doesn't that tell you something?

As for the price, the $20k offer is in the right ball park for a handyman special diesel pusher, but  you don't appear to be a DIY sort of guy with time and skills to do much yourself.  I foresee months of shop time (RV shops are notoriously slow) and large repair bills.  And do you want to spend much of your first several months with the RV in repair shops, especially shops that may well find yet more things that need replacement?

Thanks for all the feedback folks.  We passed on this one.

The search goes on...