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Author Topic: Thinking "truck" ... and diesel  (Read 1039 times)

scottydl

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Re: Thinking "truck" ... and diesel
« Reply #30 on: July 25, 2020, 07:05:44 PM »
I saw this "ball in the bed" trailer connection (pictured below) referred to as a "fifth wheel hitch" in a dealer ad... I can't imagine something that minor being able to handle significant weight. I assume those are designed for gooseneck farming or cargo trailers?
Scott, wife, 3 boys... and the dog
- 2008 Forest River Wildwood 32BHDS
- 1995 Chevrolet Suburban C2500 tow vehicle
- 1994 Thor Residency motorhome... owned 2007-2012

Lou Schneider

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Re: Thinking "truck" ... and diesel
« Reply #31 on: July 25, 2020, 07:20:06 PM »
Yes.  The problem isn't the ball breaking from the trailer weight, it's placing the ball on the truck bed moves the pivot point further away from the trailer frame.  Instead of 10-12 inches between the trailer frame and the elevated 5th wheel platform, you have a lever arm 2-3 ft long.  This increases the torque stresses on the trailer frame like adding a length of pipe to a breaker bar makes it easier to break free a stubborn bolt.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2020, 07:26:16 PM by Lou Schneider »

SargeW

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Re: Thinking "truck" ... and diesel
« Reply #32 on: July 26, 2020, 08:38:38 AM »
That ball looks "mounted" in the truck bed. Most hookups like that are a designed "turn over ball". They easily remove and flip over leaving the truck bed unobsecured and usable. And it's no problem if the trailer is a truly designed goose neck trailer, which are often used on a farm.  Trouble is few if any 5th wheel RV trailers are designed as true goose neck hook ups.

I have seen a few 5vers that used an adapter plate to modify the standard 5ver hitch into a goose neck, but I would never trust one for the reason Lou mentions.
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Thinking "truck" ... and diesel
« Reply #33 on: July 26, 2020, 11:31:39 AM »
Tough to judge from that photo. The ball looks to be on the bed itself, and the pickup bed is just a bolt-on body panel and nowhere near as strong as direct frame mounting. But those two protruding humps suggest there is more structure underneath, so maybe not so bad?   But I lean towards lou & Sarge's opinion...
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Joezeppy

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Re: Thinking "truck" ... and diesel
« Reply #34 on: July 26, 2020, 11:59:33 AM »
Agree that it's tough to tell if that ball is permanent or can be removed. Mine looks the same but is slides right out with a lever in the driver's-side wheel well. The Andersen Ultimate 5th wheel hitch would work for you - it mounts to the ball and is not a "gooseneck conversion" - i.e. no extra stress on the 5th wheel frame. A few of us here use the Andersen. Pull-Rite also makes a similar product. And depending on the manufacture of the under-mount system, they may have a traditional 5th wheel hitch that slides down into the socket for the ball. My under-mount system is from Draw-Tite and they have their own 5th wheel hitch that is compatible with their system. They are not interchangeable - mine has a slot on one side of the ball, for example, so only Draw-Tite's 5th wheel hitch would work it.
Joe & Kim
Upstate NY - Kuyahoora Valley
2010 GMC Sierra 2500HD - 6.0L
2017 Keystone Hideout 295BHS
Andersen Ultimate Aluminum 5th wheel hitch

scottydl

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Re: Thinking "truck" ... and diesel
« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2020, 11:26:03 PM »
I got the thread a little off track by asking about the fifth wheel ball... I don't have a 5er yet but that's one possible future option with the type of truck I'm shopping for. Thanks for educating me a bit on the hitch options!
Scott, wife, 3 boys... and the dog
- 2008 Forest River Wildwood 32BHDS
- 1995 Chevrolet Suburban C2500 tow vehicle
- 1994 Thor Residency motorhome... owned 2007-2012

Lynx0849

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Re: Thinking "truck" ... and diesel
« Reply #36 on: July 27, 2020, 07:20:41 AM »
From what I have read, the Goosebox modification is supported by Lippart, the frame maker for many 5th wheels.
Rob & Deryl, Nettle & Tigger
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Broke Boater

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Re: Thinking "truck" ... and diesel
« Reply #37 on: July 27, 2020, 06:54:58 PM »
Tough to judge from that photo. The ball looks to be on the bed itself, and the pickup bed is just a bolt-on body panel and nowhere near as strong as direct frame mounting. But those two protruding humps suggest there is more structure underneath, so maybe not so bad?   But I lean towards lou & Sarge's opinion...
Gary, that's a typical gooseneck ball, and there a framework under the bed that the ball is locked into, and yes the ball flips over to have use of the bed. The to slots are where the spring loaded brackets pop up for the safety chains. Also, the gooseneck neck is well engineered and significantly built, at least our 4 horse Logan with sleeping quarters is. Being that I'm a fabricator, I can say it's not a concern to me as far as structure and any forces on it, just a follow up on what you guys are looking at, no opinion on a GN vs  5th wheel hitch,,,gregg

If you zoom in on the pic, you can see the socket the ball mounts into, not on the bed. it's a good install with the hole made in the right spot. I think our horse trailer is rated around 14k lbs gross weight,
« Last Edit: July 27, 2020, 09:08:05 PM by Broke Boater »
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Velociraptor

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Re: Thinking "truck" ... and diesel
« Reply #38 on: July 29, 2020, 11:56:56 PM »
Broke Boater is correct.  If you zoom in on the pic on the right hand side of the gooseneck ball you can see the “socket” the ball slides into.  As others have mentioned depending on manufacturer you can remove the ball and drop a 5th wheel hitch in easily.  I went this route on my new 5500 Chevy as it let’s me set up to bumper pull, gooseneck (custom cargo or equipment trailers) pull, or 5th wheel pull (future living quarters) and I can change to all 3 versions in less than 3 minutes.  I went with B&Ws system as we had already put the same system in my FILs 2500 meaning we can share a 5th wheel hitch and CM builds the B&W system into their flat beds when requested.
Josh
2020 Chevy 5500 - 19,500 GVWR / 34,000 GCWR
Custom 44 ft Gooseneck Under Construction - 21,000 GVWR

scottydl

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Re: Thinking "truck" ... and diesel
« Reply #39 on: August 08, 2020, 12:36:10 PM »
Whew... gotta say, this diesel truck research is dizzying! I'm really having a hard time narrowing down GM Duramax vs. Dodge Cummins vs. Ford Powerstroke in the mid-2000s age range that I'm shopping within. I'm limiting my search to 1-ton duallys in order to have a fifth wheel upgrade option later. I'll drive regularly but may only put ~7-10k miles per year on the truck, so mileage isn't a huge issue but I'd like to be around 150k or less to give me plenty of future headroom. Even if I only keep it 5-7 years and then sell, at least it would still be around/under 200k and have some resale value there. I see a many used diesels being sold in the 250k+ to 400k mileage range... which is still pretty wild to me, having always driven gas vehicles that are pretty much useless by the time they get anywhere near 200k. A few brand-specific takeaways so far:

- Avoid the 6.0L Powerstroke unless it's been "bulletproofed" because of all the crappy emissions parts that fail, so that takes a lot of Fords out of the running unless I find an older 7.3L Powerstroke -- final year was 2004 but most I find are older, and I kinda want a substantially newer vehicle (compared to my 1995 Suburban) at the end of the day.

- The 5.9L Cummins was replaced by the 6.7L (both inline 6 cylinders!) in 2007.5. The 6.7L engine is beefier but came new emissions restrictions that affect performance and related parts that will eventually fail. Also prone to head gasket failure because of higher internal pressures. But the 6.7L has a exhaust brake function. Dodge trucks also seem to have a smaller back seat in the crew cab, which is a consideration for my family of 5.

- Duramax has primarily (always?) been 6.6L, but has had numerous generations over the years. The ones I'm running across are LLY (2004.5-2005), LBZ (2006-2007.5), and LMM (2007.5-2010). Known cons are LLY head gaskets, LBZ injectors, and LMM emissions restrictions.

Any other comments for those with ownership experience are welcome and encouraged. I am searching nationwide using AutoTrader.com, CarGurus.com, TrueCar.com, and Ebay Motors, and regionally using numerous Craigslist sites and Facebook Marketplace. Also dropping my name/number to guys who know guys who have trucks. This is the way I shop for big ticket items, and the same way I found/purchased my last several vehicles and both RVs... so I know it works, but it's a bit time-intensive!
Scott, wife, 3 boys... and the dog
- 2008 Forest River Wildwood 32BHDS
- 1995 Chevrolet Suburban C2500 tow vehicle
- 1994 Thor Residency motorhome... owned 2007-2012

Lynx0849

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Re: Thinking "truck" ... and diesel
« Reply #40 on: August 08, 2020, 01:35:47 PM »
My crew cab back seat is spacious. On the 1500 there is a quad cab with less back seat space. Have you gone and sat in any of the trucks you are interested in? You should.

My take on the head gasket on the Cummins is mostly in the pre DEF 6.7 where many people stripped the emissions stuff and put in a chip resulting in more power. The more experienced ones replaced the head studs as well.
The DEF models (I think around 2012 and later - mine is a ‘15) seem pretty reliable. My search on Autotrader a few years ago looked for 75k miles or fewer. Mine had 60 and now has 88. I like the 15k miles for oil changes and 10k for fuel filters. I get a local shop to do the oil & filter at less than half the price of a dealer. Just did front brakes for the first time yesterday. I refill the DEF every 3500 miles or so at a truck stop pump (had to get this magnet sleeve thing to enable the pump). Easier and cheaper than jugs. I like that the Cummins runs at low rpms. Most of the time at around 1500. I insisted that it have the Aisin transmission. Hefty, like the Alison.
I also wanted, and got, the 5th wheel/gooseneck factory prep. It provides a second 7 pin trailer connector in the truck bed, a socket for a goose ball and puck locations for a 5th wheel hitch.
I had a Ram 1500 before this. The 1ton diesel is getting better mileage than my old half ton.
Rob & Deryl, Nettle & Tigger
Clyde, a 2015 RAM 3500 Cummins Longhorn SRW w/ARE cap
14’ V nose utility trailer as mini toy hauler (for now)
A Grand Design 337RLS in the future.
N1ICB (Nursing 1 Ice Cold Beer)
N1SPA (up to my neck in hot water, as always)

NebrSVKG

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Re: Thinking "truck" ... and diesel
« Reply #41 on: August 10, 2020, 10:24:53 PM »
If you want to get an education on the Ford Powerstroke evolution and consider a "lifetime" warranty on a 6.0, go to the Powerstrokehelp YouTube channel and have some fun getting to know the owner of Powerstrokehelp.com.

If I were in the market for a TV, I would consider one of their offerings.

My brother has a 2004 Duramax that is a beast. He is having the mentioned dash issue but the thing will haul!  I have pulled our TT with it, did not know it was there.

I agree!  If you want a great value in a refurbished 2007 or newer Ford diesel truck, I would check out "Powerstrokehelp" on Youtube and any offerings they have.   I've watched "Powerstrokehelp" channel on youtube for a couple of years.  Bill Hewitt impresses me as stand up guy who refurbishes clean "Southern" no rust trucks so they are rock solid and good as new!   He will advertise trucks for sale every month or so.   

Although I think all the late model diesel offerings from Chevy, and Dodge are great trucks, I've been partial to fords.   I think you could get a good deal on a post 2012-17 6.7 powerstroke and mechanically be just fine.   I recently retired and bought a 2019 F350 long bed SRW with 6.7 before I bought my camper.  It can tow up to 18K.  My toy hauler carries 7-13K.   So I have plenty of truck.  If you are shopping for a good used truck, you really should know what type of camper and properties before purchasing your truck.