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Slovakia has the lowest death total in Europe by reacting early. Meanwhile their neighbors did not and they all have significantly higher death totals. You can either actively fight this virus or throw your hands up in the air and say 'when it gets warmer it will disappear'.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-28/european-nation-with-least-virus-deaths-proves-speed-is-key
 
Ex-Calif said:
Many things are becoming politicized including this. Especially this year.

However it is a matter of science not politics to discuss and is valid in terms of how it impacts this community and all communities.

There is clear science covering the efficacy of wearing masks. One just has to get on board with the agency responsible for the science - the CDC. If you can't get on-board with the science then there is something motivating you that is not scientific.

  The science from the CDC has changed many times since this began....which one of their findings/recommendations from which week, do we follow? memtb
 
[quote author=jayc2640]When did this forum become political?  This may be a medical issue, but it is a political discussion.[/quote]
As others have said, we (forum staff and most of our members) try to stay away from politics. Unfortunately, it only takes a simple comment that someone doesn't like or agree with to set things off, and discussions disappear down a rat hole in a hurry. So far, I'm not seeing these extremes in this discussion, but be aware that forum staff will be keeping an eye on things. We also consciously try to avoid over-moderating.

If discussions like this are to be permitted on this forum, a political category should be created.

Been there, done that. Some years ago I opened a board specifically for political discussions, and assigned a staffer with a lot of experience moderating political boards as the new sheriff in town. But we eventually had to shut it down.
 
Memtb said:
  The science from the CDC has changed many times since this began....which one of their findings/recommendations from which week, do we follow? memtb

Perhaps Q knows better.
 
Memtb said:
  The science from the CDC has changed many times since this began....which one of their findings/recommendations from which week, do we follow? memtb

As more is researched and learned practices change. That?s the way science works. We follow the latest recommendations from the experts. I had cancer in my thumb. The treatment used to be amputate the digit. Now they do limb saving surgeries where they widen the margins and follow up for 5 years due to research and studies.
 
This mornings newspaper, in the sports section, noted that they are seeing heart conditions in players that had tested positive even if their symptoms were mild. Some who came back to their sport soon after suffered a heart attack, at least one died.

Now, major league sports are testing for the heart condition 3 times after a Covid negative before allowing the player back.

The moral of my story is that we don?t yet know the side effects even when someone has a mild case but they are discovering more as they continue learning. Scary for me.

About the CDC...
I trust them. I believe they try to give the best guidance they can.
The big argument I have heard about not believing them was that they changed their guidance from not wearing masks, to please wear masks. I believe there are 2 parts to this. In the early days they thought the virus was most likely transferred by surfaces, similar to other viruses, hence the hand washing and not touching the face. Second, there was (and in some places still) a shortage of medical masks and creating shopping run on them would hinder medical treatment. Once they realized that this virus was more likely to be transmitted by exhalation and simple 3 layer cloth masks would block it, they changed their guidance.
No malice here, just science and learning.
 
The media whether it is FOX or CNN loves the ratings and divides the country for their own benefit. Like the old story about a fireman setting a fire the media is never unbiased. You have to read both sides to get anywhere close to the real story and you'll never know which side is more accurate.
 
We've been debating this issue for some time.  If we all wore a mask or one month, we might find out whether or not masks, social distancing and proper hygiene works.  If it does and unless there is a type of spread the docs haven't identified yet, we'd be done with this thing.  One month and life could be back to normal.  As we know, the virus needs a mode of transmission.  So the downside to mandatory mask wearing is a loss of a month.  The upside is enormous.  We'd be back to work and things would be improving daily.  Better yet, many of the new RVers would sell their RV's and we'd have a great choice of discounted RV's. 
 
Memtb said:
  The science from the CDC has changed many times since this began....which one of their findings/recommendations from which week, do we follow? memtb

I hear this complaint a lot.  As the CDC learns more about the virus, they update recommendations.  Today I read an article from a study at a university in Indiana dealing with what they call "long haulers", those for whom the disease doesnt go away in a few weeks but hangs on for months with a variety of symptoms. 

There is still a lot we dont know about this disease, and there are those who are using this lack of knowledge of the disease for political gain. In this day and age we expect instant answers to virtually all problems, but with this disease, there are no instant answers.

Also, we are reminded many times during the day that there are only a few places to get accurate information, and the CDC and its spokespeople are not to be trusted, and in fact these people are the problem to the extent that the head of the CDC now has protection for himself and his family.

I read a quote the other day which said, "As soon as the election is over, there will be no more new cases."  I am no doctor, but I guarantee you there will be new cases for the foreseeable future.
 
jayc2640 said:
When did this forum become political?  This may be a medical issue, but it is a political discussion.  It is political because there is no definitive proof that masks protect anyone.  Additionally, there are physicians with differing opinions.

If discussions like this are to be permitted on this forum, a political category should be created.  Personally, I think that this is inappropriate for the board.

John, In my 12 years as a member I have found that the board frequently entertains a certain degree of what might be viewed as political comments.  Generally those statements are overlooked until a heated exchange develops.  More than that, my personal belief is that one side of any political argument is viewed as more toxic than the other.  Doesn't your own response challenging the politics of this discussion includes your own view.  And isn't that view based in large on your own politics? 
 
garyb1st said:
John, In my 12 years as a member I have found that the board frequently entertains a certain degree of what might be viewed as political comments.  Generally those statements are overlooked until a heated exchange develops.  More than that, my personal belief is that one side of any political argument is viewed as more toxic than the other.  Doesn't your own response challenging the politics of this discussion includes your own view.  And isn't that view based in large on your own politics? 

And I would ask that nobody answer this question, as the discussion will then by default turn expressly political. (It's better unasked in my administrative opinion.)

See how easy that topic shift happens? :)
 
My take on it, is this is being driven by people with too many other agendas (political, financial, even scientific), and most of them are taking stupid positions, primarily based on the assumption that the public is stupid, which they may not be wrong about, but tends to cause problems when you are so blatant about it.

Examples are all the guidance telling the public not to wear masks early on because masks don't help, and that wearing them wrong was worse than not wearing them at all, which Fauci later admitted was a lie when he testified before congress, when he stated the real reason was to reserve the limited supply of mask for first responders.  Now the pendulum has swung the other way, and we are having mandates for people to wear masks while on Zoom teleconference meetings even when they are the only person in the building in order to set a good example, and people being fined hundreds of dollars for not wearing a mask outdoors when they are nowhere near any other people.  Well guess what people see through these mandates, people understand that it is easier to be understood on a telemeeting when you are not wearing a mask, it makes it easier for people to read lips, and interpret facial expressions, ...  People also get the fact that there is no reasonable need to mandate masks when they are outdoors and dozens if not hundreds of feet from the nearest other person.

The same applies to all the politically motivated speakers complaining about president Trump not wearing a mask.  The simple fact is he is very unlikely to catch it or give it to someone due to not wearing a mask, everyone around him is constantly being tested, and it is not like someone is going to walk up to him on the street and get within 6 or even 20 feet.  Instead it is all about theater, just note how all these same people complaining about president Trump not wearing a mask say nothing about dozens of democratic politicians wearing a mask wrong in public, either under their nose, or taking it off to talk when anyone approaches them.  Having said that I think it would have looked better if president Trump were to wear a mask when out and about in public, but that is optics, not science.

In the end I don't think we are going to see people start acting more responsibly until it hits their own lives, until someone they know dies from this virus, even then it will need to be someone they know who was otherwise healthy, before most people start taking this seriously.  As this virus continues to spread, I feel that day is coming, so far 7 or 8 people I knew have died of this virus, though none were people that I was particularly close to, most recently a second cousin who was a the mayor of a neighboring small town who I had not seen in decades died of it, and last week one of my best friends lost an in law, both of which were active working age individuals.
 
SeilerBird said:
I read yesterday that 1/3 of Americans are not planning on getting a vaccine when one becomes available.
That is insane. What is wrong with these people? Do they want to die?

Nope, just have NO trust in the government, left or right.  I'll get a vaccine, after many others have and show no ill effects.  If they already had the cure, it would not be public knowledge, after all, how could anyone make money off it. 

Don't for a second think that China did not do this intentionally as a revolt against Leadership finally standing up to them. They do not care, they are Communist after all, and thinning the herd will only benefit their country.

Remember that next time you buy a product made in China.


 
Memtb said:
  The science from the CDC has changed many times since this began....which one of their findings/recommendations from which week, do we follow? memtb

The latest guidance is what should be followed. This new virus has led to many changes as more is learned through verifiable scientific research. There was a time doctors prescribed cigarettes as an asthma treatment. The medical community has learned a few things since then... ;)
 
I will continue to wear a mask until I am told by the NIH and or the CDC tells me otherwise. In other words I will do everything in my power to protect you regardless if you do the same for me.
 
I still only know 1 person who has had c19, and she got it in one of our NY nursing homes . She never was severely sick and she has diabetes.
Some of you are really going to freak out when the flu hits ,and it will probably be reported as the worst flu season ever.
 
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