snow birds... not flocking to south???

Wondering about this winter and the Canadian snow birds... how many travel to the south of US? If borders still closed... will there be 1000's of reservations up in the air.. maybe some bargains. Anyone have any insight on this.

We have friends in Canada and they are hoping for vacinne or are afraid they can't leave the cold...

I am sure all of us are over this virus and disruption of everything.... uck..

Even if the border opens canadians may not be able to come down if the travel insurance companies continue to exclude Covid19 from coverage

The smart ones are staying in Canada. The US has 175,000 deaths and almost 6 million cases. Canada has 9000 deaths and 125,000 cases. It would be a no-brainer for me to stay in Canada.

SeilerBird said:

The smart ones are staying in Canada. The US has 175,000 deaths and almost 6 million cases. Canada has 9000 deaths and 125,000 cases. It would be a no-brainer for me to stay in Canada.

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People seem to forget the huge differences of the two countries population and the amount of large cities we have too in the U.S.  But look at the deaths targeted in the nursing homes in just two states  that the media seems to forget when reporting the death rate.

Boat Addict said:

But look at the deaths targeted in the nursing homes in just two states  that the media seems to forget when reporting the death rate.

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NOoooo, the media would never do that 

It will be interesting, I would imagine some up north depend on moving south for the winter.

In the U.S., the population rate comes in around 330 million and Canada reports around 30 million plus or minus the last time I looked when people were discussing universal healthcare. So you also need to look at percentages of the two countries. But the reported but ignored nursing home deaths in two states were about half the numbers before the summer began.  I welcome all northern residents south. Just all you men folks please leave those self defining bathing suits home when you head this way. 8) ;D

Boat Addict said:

Just all you men folks please leave those self defining bathing suits home when you head this way. 8) ;D

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;D ;D

If anyone has any question about how the US is doing vs the rest of the world, check out the many stats available on line. 

https://news.google.com/covid19/map?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen

The data is available by cases per million people.  The number of cases per million worldwide is 3,013.  The US is at 17,338.  That's almost 6 times the average.  Clearly something is not working here.  By comparison other developed countries per million population as of today; the UK, 4,916; Italy, one of the hardest hit, 4,321; Germany, 3,972; France 3,631. 

Take a closer look at the US.  Look at how new cases and deaths exploded in FLA and TX after they opened up.  Click on "New cases" upper left corner of chart and it changes to deaths. 

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS871US872&ei=jupDX_LlKoXU-gT7gomQDw&q=coronavirus+statistics&oq=coronavirus+statistics&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQDFAAWABgqCRoAHAAeACAAQCIAQCSAQCYAQCqAQdnd3Mtd2l6&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwjy5L-OobTrAhUFqp4KHXtBAvIQ4dUDCAw

Believe what you want, but get your facts first.  When I have a problem with my RV and need help, I look to the experts on this forum.  When I have an issue with our damaged sidewalks, I contact the Mayors Office.  I try not to confuse the two when looking for help. 

Believe what you want, but get your facts first.

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You can find almost any story to support your side if you look long enough.  But to take one story as face value and run with it is not really going to get you all the facts.

Even the World Covid Economic forum admits way back in March that other countries had a different criteria in which to test folks. So parts per million are distorted in the total current numbers If you look at the link you will also see that two states  provided the majority of testing in the U.S along with large percentage of deaths..
I don't have time to go and look at the particular deaths up to March 17. But we do know that before the warm weather hit, which is when all the experts said that the virus would begin to decline and go away, the unfortunate deaths of seniors may have been avoided. We have also learned that there was big bucks attached to a Covid death. And of course politics have played right into the argument when you look at certain states and their continued lockdowns or partial lockdowns .  Locking resterants down that seats 50 people or even less while the Walmarts and Targets remain open is the glaring example of not following the science, or the one sided following the science  argument.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/03/coronavirus-testing-country-comparison/

The degree of testing in any country can depend on criteria. The CDC, for example, initially applied a narrow view to who merited testing ? only people who had recently traveled to China or had contact with someone infected qualified. On 4 March, the CDC expanded its criteria. Roughly two weeks later, on 17 March, the World Health Organization was reporting more than 179,000 confirmed COVID-19 cases globally, including about 3,500 in the US.

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I still say come one down Canadians, but select your bathing suits carefully. As a matter of fact leave those black sandals and white socks home too.  :-* ;D

    Boat, we don't all live in igloos, Toronto is the 4th largest city in North America, as for covid related deaths, the last figure I saw was that over 80% of Canadian deaths were either residents or staff at senior care facilities.  We live in Atlantic Canada, where there are virtually no cases, and all newly arrived people, including Canadians from outside Atlantic Canada are require to self quarantine, or residents returning from visiting other areas of Canada.
    As far as our ability of returning to Florida, the above comments are correct, until our our of country insurance will provide coverage, the risk of heading into the US will keep most Canadians home.  We have heard that the cost of uninsured hospital stays are often over $100,000, which makes it very risky to head down.

Ed

Boat Addict said:

You can find almost any story to support your side if you look long enough.  But to take one story as face value and run with it is not really going to get you all the facts.

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Totally agree.  That's why I don't look for stories that agree with my thinking.  I look for stories that disagree and then examine them for their veracity.  But the two sites I've referenced aren't stories about the virus.  They simply data compiled by the CDC.  If you want to believe that the data is bogus or in some way politically biased there's no point in having any discussion.  That's because you can't prove they are and I can't prove they are not.   

What I did was to look at the number of deaths in Florida, Texas and California and created an Excel spreadsheet showing daily deaths beginning July 1.  For the first two weeks, the deaths for FLA, TX and CA are 1,016, 1,008 and 1,253.  Two weeks later the deaths were 2,322, 3,137 and 1,879.  Florida saw twice as many deaths in the last half of July.  Texas had 3 times as many deaths.  California had 1 1/2 times as many.

When you look at deaths since March, both Florida and Texas were relatively flat and compared to California relatively low.  After opening up, both saw  increases.  Both opened up early against the advice of the docs.  Texas is well on its way to having the highest number of deaths of any state.  California has the most as of today.  But if you consider population, California is doing much better than either Florida or Texas. 

If you want to believe that the data is bogus or in some way politically biased there's no point in having any discussion.  That's because you can't prove they are and I can't prove they are not.   

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That's a bit of a stretch. I grew up listening to Paul Harvey. There is always more to the story than just one person's opinion, or you may say a group of people's facts. How you conclude to a number here had some flaws in them when you look at the past five months in particular.
I provided some context to the now lengthy statistics which addressed how the virus and testing was treated across many countries. That was after all your original point, that all other nations experienced lower numbers. No big deal, I was just passing thru from grinding wood. I actually looked outside to see if I could find a flock of Canadians headed south like the title wondered. No luck though, I guess its still too warm. ) ;D

I actually looked outside to see if I could find a flock of Canadians headed south like the title wondered. No luck though, I guess its still too warm. ) ;D
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Does anyone know numbers that flock south when the COLD comes...

Boat Addict said:

I provided some context to the now lengthy statistics which addressed how the virus and testing was treated across many countries. That was after all your original point, that all other nations experienced lower numbers.

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Actually my post was in response to yours which was in response to Tom SeilerBirds. 

Personally I think testing is over rated.  Barring false positives, it tells you whether or not you have it at one point in time.  Following the test, all bets are off.  You could contract the virus before you got home. 

Regardless, that really wasn't the point of my post.  It was to address the increasing number of deaths that have occurred since states began opening up.  Until they have a vaccine or cure those number are likely to continue increasing unless steps are taken to slow the spread.  Generally you have increasing numbers of deaths when you have increasing numbers of infections.  Just something to think about when considering travel in densely populated areas. 

    According to Statistics Canada, about 300,000 to 375,000 Canadians winter in the southern climates, with the majority in the USA.  According to Florida Visits, Canadian tourists peaked at 4.1 million visitors, but that includes short term visits and kids going to Disney, etc, and spent $6.5 billion US Dollars, I haven't tried to look at other popular snowbird states.
    So, getting back to the OP's question, if Canadians can't or won't head south, there should be lots of campsites available.  However, I would expect that a lot of the normal services and restaurants will not be open due to a lack of customers.
    FWIW Boat, our daughter, who is in the field, says the best measure of how to gauge the severity of the virus is to follow the number of hospitalizations, particularly those in the ICUs and many states are near or at their limit of ICU beds.

Ed

Our cases may be high but the death rates are close to the same in the UK ,Italy and France .
I think the more infected and survive the better

Hfx_Cdn said:

many states are near or at their limit of ICU beds.

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I searched for that information, but couldn't find anything to support that statement. But I might have missed it, my search skills aren't the greatest. Do you have a link that supports that claim?

b] author=Hfx_Cdn link=topic=128845.msg1180759#msg1180759 date=1598306882]
    According to Statistics Canada, about 300,000 to 375,000 Canadians winter in the southern climates, with the majority in the USA.  According to Florida Visits, Canadian tourists peaked at 4.1 million visitors, but that includes short term visits and kids going to Disney, etc, and spent $6.5 billion US Dollars, I haven't tried to look at other popular snowbird states.
    So, getting back to the OP's question, if Canadians can't or won't head south, there should be lots of campsites available.  However, I would expect that a lot of the normal services and restaurants will not be open due to a lack of customers.
    FWIW Boat, our daughter, who is in the field, says the best measure of how to gauge the severity of the virus is to follow the number of hospitalizations, particularly those in the ICUs and many states are near or at their limit of ICU beds.

Ed

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Well my experience is in both the current healthcare situation and the 39 years of being married to a critical care provider. The numbers or the lack of of ICU beds in a measured way varies across the country. Not all communities have the same population that requires as many ICU beds in all hospitals. Hospitals are built on a need basis and highly regulated. Sadly we had staff being laid off during the most critical and initial time when attempting to get a handle of things pertaining to the virus.

The lack of transparency by the original source of the virus made things worse for the world. Of course what the experts thought about the pattern in which the virus would take did not come to fruition.  Remember when the WHO told us no big deal?  Remember when the pres. was condemned and called classless names when he shut the borders down from seriously affected countries? Remember when we heard that  when it got warm things was going to be different. Yes the experts told us that. And remember we did not need to wear masks if you were not carrying the virus. I quote "save the masks for the professional providers"

To date this is the reports of the deaths in just New York alone, with some content actually addressing the virus early on in the U.S..

CNN)A new study finds that deaths in New York City in the early part of the Covid-19 pandemic were comparable to deaths in the city at the peak of what's considered the deadliest pandemic to date -- the flu pandemic of 1918.

Fed study: 1918 flu deaths linked to relative strength of Nazism
Fed study: 1918 flu deaths linked to relative strength of Nazism
The relative increase in deaths during the early period of the Covid-19 pandemic was actually substantially greater than during the peak of the 1918 pandemic, according to the study published Thursday in JAMA Network Open
Faust said by comparing the first two months of the pandemic in New York to the worst two months of the pandemic in New York 100 years ago, the Covid-19 period had over 70% as many deaths per capita.
"Who knows what would be the case if we didn't have modern ICUs and we couldn't treat secondary infections with antibiotics or put people on ventilators or had oxygen," Faust said. "If you compare these viruses side by side, without all the medical bells and whistles we have today, I'd say Covid-19 is worse."

Coronavirus (COVID-19) statistics

New York cases
Updated Aug 24 at 9:07 PM local
Confirmed
430,145
+408
Deaths
32,864

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  Of course you are probably aware that since some elective procedures were put on hold, this also backed up the procedures that's being done now and long over due, requiring some of those ICU beds. Locally they are not all filled with Covid cases.

And for an example biopsies are part of the elective procedures, but potential life threatening depending on the stage of the cancers.  Some of the rural hospitals only have four to five beds. So it doesn't take much to fill them up for whatever reason

I just looked at the up to date numbers from the New York Times. So while the numbers vary a bit, you can look at the disproportionate rates targeted the big cities to the total numbers in the states.  The actual case numbers are on the decline by 6 percent from two weeks ago, if you read their own admission.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/new-york-coronavirus-cases.html

    Boat, I do appreciate your efforts to minimize the extent of the pandemic, but your comments are totally off topic as to whether Snowbirds will feel safe enough to travel south this winter.  While I do think comparing 2020 to the 1918 flu epidemic is interesting, it is today's and more particularly where cases sit over the next number of months that will govern whether we can or will return to our winter home in Florida, and at present I do not expect to return until some time in 2021.

Ed

Hfx_Cdn said:

    Boat, I do appreciate your efforts to minimize the extent of the pandemic, but your comments are totally off topic as to whether Snowbirds will feel safe enough to travel south this winter.  While I do think comparing 2020 to the 1918 flu epidemic is interesting, it is today's and more particularly where cases sit over the next number of months that will govern whether we can or will return to our winter home in Florida, and at present I do not expect to return until some time in 2021.

Ed

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Actually the events facing many Canadians traveling south for the winter worked both ways and  determined both countries' travel policies. Yes the topic took a bit of a curve ball. But things worked both ways and your country lost financially too this summer by not allowing us traveling nomads across the border.

But I like to see declines in the numbers and look at this as a glass half full for everyone.  Whether you choose to stay home even if he border is opened for snowbirds, I for one would love to do the Alaskan Highway before I age out. So this topic is important and relevant to me and the bride. As a side note when meeting up with Tony and his wife in Jackson, he too was affected by the shut down and has been forced to stay below the borders. Oh well back to building a boat..Cheers