Made in China

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Ron

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Interesting you bring up microwaves.  Sam had found a Whirlpool microwave she thought she wanted for over the range in the house.  When I found out they were mad in China I really didn't want anything to do with it but knowing how Sam seemed to like her choice I didn't think I had much chance of changing her mind.  Wow when I mentioned the microwave she wanted was made in Chins she immediately said guess we will just have to shop for something that isn't made in China.

So we are shopping for a microwave again.  O we do have a couple counter top units But!!!

I had even wrote Whirlpool to confirm where the model Sam mad was made When I got the response I let them know why we wouldn't be buying anything else from them.
 
Unfortunately, many products we buy are made in China, or a portion originates there.

LG is a Korean company, but I have no idea where they build their products. Even many Japanese companies build their products in China.
 
I feel no guilt buying foreign made products.  The majority of products made by the company division that I worked for during my career were sold overseas. Today its a global economy.  I have a preference for US made products but I don't pass up something I want if it is made somewhere else.
 
Tom said:
Unfortunately, many products we buy are made in China, or a portion originates there.

And recent events prove what quality to expect.  It is unfortunate.

LG is a Korean company, but I have no idea where they build their products. Even many Japanese companies build their products in China.

I think I have more confidence in Korean made products.  Just look at the LG phones.  Even the Japanese are fore going quality for profit and to heck with the customers.
 
I can't help thinking the U.S. government is on a witch hunt to discredit Chinese manufacturing. Today there was a report of lead paint on spiral bindings of books. I'm not trying to defend anything that was done incorrectly, but it sure looks like we're focusing on China.

I sure don't know the full story in the Mattel toy case, but I can think of a number of possible scenarios.
 
I don't think the feds would be targeting China they are just acting on what they have become aware of.  IMHO some incompetent getting paid the big bucks hasn't been doing his job thus allowing the lead tainted things to be imported.  In any case I have no confidence in Chinese manufactured products so I will avoid them as much as possible.
 
Why hold China responsible? They didn't import the lead tainted toys. Hold the toy companies responsible. They're the ones that aren't inspecting the products to make sure they are built to their specs. How did the toys get out of Mattel's warehouse without being inspected? Why didn't the pet food company inspect the pet food before it left their warehouse?

I don't understand why these companies think the government should do the inspecting. We could put inspectors shoulder to shoulder on our borders and couldn't inspect everything that is imported into this country. Make the importing companies responsible for the products that they put on the market.

Ron, when Boeing outsourced the manufacture of a part did they just install the part they received on an airplane without ever testing that part to see if it met their specs? I don't think so.

IMO the importing companies are the ones that are responsible !
 
Alaskansnowbirds said:
Ron, when Boeing outsourced the manufacture of a part did they just install the part they received on an airplane without ever testing that part to see if it met their specs? I don't think so.

IMO the importing companies are the ones that are responsible !

I think you know the answer to that one in fact it is inspected several time along the way.

I agree the importers are at fault but so are the Chinese and well as our incompedent over paid watch dogs in Washington.
 
I heard the owner of the factory which made the toys , killed himself two days after the recall.
 
Well, I see two threads here.

First, On the topic, Replacement being less costly than repair.  Part of the problem is when they make things in China or some of the other "Sweat Shop" or "Company Town" countries (Korea comes to mind, Lucky Goldstar, I've nothing nice to say about Goldstar)

They are paying cents per hour.  Nearly always well under a dollar.  Here in America when you go to have it fixed. The repair guy often charges as much as 100/hr (And gets around 30 if he's lucky, to keep)  If you can find a one man shop somewhere you get better rates.

Thus, you can buy a new Micro for 59.95 (OR LESS) but you can't even get an estimate on repair for under 50 bucks

Now: was to the "We are picking on China" or "Who's to Blame" (China is trying to say Mattell is to blame for the toys cause.. Well, They ordered them)

When you buy a new _____ you have a right to expect it to be

1: As advertised  2: Marketable (in fact the uniform commericial code states that rather clearly) and Safe, or at least as safe as such a _____ can be (some things are just not safe to begin with)

Mattell ordered toys from China, they did not order lead based paint,  They ordered the toy, painted and packaged.  The company that made them ordered paint, from, as it turns out a company run by a good friend of the toy company's former CEO The paint company A CHINESE COMPANY used lead cause... Well.. IT's cheaper.  and as we all know

(Sing to the tune of: Old Time Religion)

Though the love of it roots evil
Still there's those who seem to feel though
That ALMIGHTY GOD's A DOLLAR          (hold up a single while singing this line)
And there's not enough for me!

The reason the former CEO of the toy company is the Former CEO is he resigned.. FROM LIFE (Suicide) rather than face the disgrace and possible loss of head.

The real cluprit is greed, Simple and pure greed (Sing that verse again) it's all greed.  This leads companies to take short cuts, it leads to use of improper goods, it leads to doing business with 3rd world places where you can pay perhaps one cent on the dollar,, OR LESS.  And it leads to not doing proper inspections of the goods received but rather trusting your supplier

I mean. when you first got in your brand new powered house on wheels.. Did you inspect the brakes to insure they did not put the washers in backwards?  Did you inspect the power steering to insure there were no burrs on the shaft which would cause it to tear up the seal and fail?  Did you inspect the fuel rails to insure they used the proper clip?

The first, far as I know, did not happen to anyone I personally know, but it was reported in the press back in the 60's

The second... To my mother

The last: To me (Workhorse did find out about it and did a recall. The clip has been replaced w/o incident)

You expect these things to be done right at the factory.  So did Matell

Alas.  They should have done inspections.
 
On the subject of China (I'll figure out how to split this out into its own topic)....

I could write a book, and have written the equivalent of many books, on this subject. I've been on both sides of inspections (making the product and inspecting it) and inspections just don't work.

An analogy I used to use was when they installed commuter lanes in the SF Bay area in the 80's. Everyone knew the rules - a minimum of 2 people in a vehicle to ride in the commuter lane. Every day I'd see lots of traffic cops writing tickets for solo drivers while, behind them, there were lots of solo drivers in the same commuter lane; The cops were too busy writing tickets to even notice them. Bottom line, you couldn't hire enough traffic cops to catch all the solo drivers and it really required (still does) some fundamental change in mindset and change in people's basic behavior, in addition to changing local conditions, to get folks to use mass transit &/or carpool.

Mass transit in the Bay Area? What a joke. When I commuted, it was easier for me to fly to Singapore (18-20 hours in the air) than drive 22 miles to the office. They initiated a new commuter train service but, at the other end, it required 3 buses and a minimum of an additional hour to get where I was going. The infrastructure isn't there to support the change in behavior.

Inspecting product is no different. I've employed armies of inspectors on several continents over the years, but they couldn't possibly catch all the defects. Don't blame the inspectors for missing things - they didn't build the defective product  :eek:  Was that a revelation? Just like the traffic cop didn't cause the solo drivers to drive in the carpool lane  ;)

When I built the product, there was no way I would/could rely on internal inspectors to find the defects. When outside (government and aerospace OEM customer) inspectors were based in our plant, I'd spend countless hours training them on what they should be looking for, but it really was a huge waste of time and money.

It took many years, but I finally figured out that the responsibility lays with the people who manufacture the product. They have to be given the tools, training and environment to make the product right in the first place. Easily said, but tough to change cultures and mindsets around. It's a long road, but it's worth it in the end, and it works. I'm tough on suppliers, but they usually tell me I helped make them a better supplier to all their customers. They also achieve major cost savings and free production capacity as a result of less rework and scrap.

In the last few weeks, I've considered offering my services to Mattel, but I'm sure they have thousands of folks doing the same thing. I actually think it needs a major education effort in China, similar to what Japan went through when McArthur invited W. Edwards Deming over there to help rebuild Japanese industry and educate them on how to manufacture things correctly. China, with its vast cottage industry, is going to be a much tougher nut to crack, way beyond my useful lifetime.

Of course, the responsibility is not all at the suppliers' end. Mattel has to adequately design and spec the product, but I have no insight into whether this was done correctly or not.

Rats! I promised myself I wouldn't be drawn into these kinds of discussions, but all this blaming inadequate inspection is just baloney  :(

Apologies to anyone who's opinion I might have stepped on. No offense intended.
 
Ron said:
I think you know the answer to that one in fact it is inspected several time along the way.

I agree the importers are at fault but so are the Chinese and well as our incompedent over paid watch dogs in Washington.



I agree with you Ron, but the sad fact is that since the Reagan years many of the oversight type gov't agencies have been gutted by budget cuts. With less money they have to cut staff and inspections that were common years ago are not done now. i.e. food, drugs, building structures (bridges, roadways), and even toys.
There is plenty of blame to spread around among the Fed. and local gov'ts, corporations, and even we consumers. If we're willing to pay more in most instances we can find better quality merchandise but we settle for less quality for the almight buck.


Woody
 
Woody said:
There is plenty of blame to spread around among the Fed. and local gov'ts, corporations, and even we consumers. If we're willing to pay more in most instances we can find better quality merchandise but we settle for less quality for the almight buck.

Sure hope we can find a similar microwave that is made in the USA that is acceptable to Sam.  The search goes on.
 
Ron said:
Sure hope we can find a similar microwave that is made in the USA...

Keep on dreaming Ron and don't forget to look closely at where the components are made and the unit is assembled  ;)
 
Quite right Lowell, but it's a lot more than manufacturing things correctly. The product has to be designed, the manufacturing process has to be designed, people have to be trained, they have to be given the right tools and the environment has to be correct for people to want and be able to do the job correctly.
 
Kenneth said:
I heard the owner of the factory which made the toys , killed himself two days after the recall.

I think that's another spin on the story that used to circulate many years ago:

When a major quality problem occurred, they took the Quality Control Manager out to the back yard and shot him.
 
This subject literally raised Don's hackles and he's shed his beard  ;D
 
Tom said:
This subject literally raised Don's hackles and he's shed his beard  ;D

The subject didn't raise my hackles as much as loosing the reply that I spent 15 minutes writing and before I could post it the power here at the house hiccuped and the UPS didn't pick it up. Just checked and it's been 6 years since I changed the batteries in the UPS so I guess a trip to Batteries Plus is in order this weekend.
 
Don,

Must be frustrating to have that happen.

I keep looking at UPS' when I'm in Fry's and always come away empty handed. My primary machines are laptops which have their own batteries. Chris' machine has little that would be a loss if we had a power outage; I have all her important stuff backed up on several hard drives.

BTW the 'raised hackles' comment was meant in jest and an attempt to recognize you "were back". Sometimes my attempt at humor goes over like a lead balloon  :(
 
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