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Author Topic: solid-state lithium metal batteries  (Read 238 times)

DonTom

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solid-state lithium metal batteries
« on: January 11, 2021, 11:21:35 PM »
This is more for EVs than RVs, at least until we have a decent ERV. But this probably is a good path to such.

But if they are talking about a complete EV battery,  this part doesn't make sense as it doesn't seem to be technically possible:

"The solution QuantumScape has developed is a solid-state battery thatís about the size of a pack of cards."

I would think Ohm's Law would get it their way there. How can it be possible to have enough current to run an EV with a battery the size of a deck of cards? Or do they mean something else with that "pack of cards"?

-Don-  Auburn, CA
-Don-   AA6GA

2000 Fleetwood Tioga 24D, 7.4L, MPFI

Ten  motorcycles:
1971 BMW R75/5
1984 Yamaha Venture
2002 Suzuki DR200SE
2013 Triumph Trophy SE
2016 Versys 650 LT
2016 Moto Guzzi Stelvio
2017 H-D RoadGlide Ultra FLTRU
2017 Zero DS ZF6.5 (for RV)
2017 Zero SR 13 w/pwr tank
2020 Energica SS9

Mark_K5LXP

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  • 2005 Itasca Sunova
Re: solid-state lithium metal batteries
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2021, 07:41:51 AM »
The single battery cell being the size of a deck of cards.  Put multiple cells in series/parallel for a pack or battery to operate whatever.  No different than the myriad of cell combinations in battery packs today.  The number of cylindrical cells in a Tesla numbers in the thousands.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

DonTom

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Re: solid-state lithium metal batteries
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2021, 09:26:12 AM »
The single battery cell being the size of a deck of cards.  Put multiple cells in series/parallel for a pack or battery to operate whatever.  No different than the myriad of cell combinations in battery packs today.  The number of cylindrical cells in a Tesla numbers in the thousands.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM
So they meant "cell" and not "battery". A cell is not really a battery, a battery is a group of cells. But over the years, a 1.5 volt cell has been incorrectly called a "battery" to the point of it being in common use for a single cell, but I don't expect such misuse of the word in a technical article.  I really thought they meant "battery".


-Don-  Auburn, CA
-Don-   AA6GA

2000 Fleetwood Tioga 24D, 7.4L, MPFI

Ten  motorcycles:
1971 BMW R75/5
1984 Yamaha Venture
2002 Suzuki DR200SE
2013 Triumph Trophy SE
2016 Versys 650 LT
2016 Moto Guzzi Stelvio
2017 H-D RoadGlide Ultra FLTRU
2017 Zero DS ZF6.5 (for RV)
2017 Zero SR 13 w/pwr tank
2020 Energica SS9

Larry N.

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  • Westminster, CO
Re: solid-state lithium metal batteries
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2021, 10:26:28 AM »
Quote
I really thought they meant "battery".

All too many words have changed their meanings over the last few decades, some just over the last 5-15 years. It's at the point where even to many otherwise technical people the word battery has come to mean almost anything that supplies DC from storage (not a power supply as such), one cell or more.
Larry and Mary Ann N.
2016 Newmar Ventana 3709 -ISB6.7 XT 360HP
2015 Wrangler Sahara Unlimited toad
Formerly: Trailmanor 2720SL, Bounder, Beaver
  de N8GGG

Mark_K5LXP

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  • 2005 Itasca Sunova
Re: solid-state lithium metal batteries
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2021, 11:28:10 AM »
So that means the energy storage device in my phone is a cell phone cell?   ::)

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: solid-state lithium metal batteries
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2021, 05:04:45 PM »
I think a "battery" is any package of stored electric power that serves a practical need.  A  AAA 1.5v is as much a "battery" as an 8D 12v or the huge power pack in a submarine.  The number of cells is irrelevant, especially since the meaning of a "cell" varies with the battery tech.  A carbon dry cell is different than a flooded lead-acid wet cell or a LiFEPO4 cell. And the lithium batteries in your phone or a Tesla have little in common with those packaged as 12v replacements.
Gary
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John From Detroit

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Re: solid-state lithium metal batteries
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2021, 05:15:43 PM »
How can you get enough current to run an EV with a battery cell the size of a pack of cards.

Well depending on how the terminals are connected a cell that size might well be able to pump 1000 amps or 100 amps. or 10 amps depending on the design and connections but let's look at what it takes.

I used to drive a compact car 30 HP. yup. just 30 HP..

30 hp is roughly 30,000 watts draw on the battery (1KW per HP) and of course you only use the full 30 when you put 'The pedal to the metal" as they say.

30,000 watts at 12 volts is 2,500 amps
At 48 volts it's 625

Series parallel you might get down to 6 amps per cell or less.
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DonTom

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Re: solid-state lithium metal batteries
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2021, 05:34:00 PM »
I think a "battery" is any package of stored electric power that serves a practical need.  A  AAA 1.5v is as much a "battery" as an 8D 12v or the huge power pack in a submarine.  The number of cells is irrelevant, especially since the meaning of a "cell" varies with the battery tech.  A carbon dry cell is different than a flooded lead-acid wet cell or a LiFEPO4 cell. And the lithium batteries in your phone or a Tesla have little in common with those packaged as 12v replacements.
I don't think anybody was saying all cells are the same, but I still think of "batteries"  as having cells in series.


IAC, using the word "cell" in that article can only prevent confusion, unlike using the word "battery" for a single cell.


If "cell" and "battery"  had the same meaning, then I could say a cell is made from many batteries.  And we all know that is never true.


-Don-  Auburn, CA
-Don-   AA6GA

2000 Fleetwood Tioga 24D, 7.4L, MPFI

Ten  motorcycles:
1971 BMW R75/5
1984 Yamaha Venture
2002 Suzuki DR200SE
2013 Triumph Trophy SE
2016 Versys 650 LT
2016 Moto Guzzi Stelvio
2017 H-D RoadGlide Ultra FLTRU
2017 Zero DS ZF6.5 (for RV)
2017 Zero SR 13 w/pwr tank
2020 Energica SS9

DonTom

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Re: solid-state lithium metal batteries
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2021, 05:38:48 PM »
So that means the energy storage device in my phone is a cell phone cell?   ::)

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM
Only if it's a single cell, and I doubt that! So your cell has many cells. :)


-Don-  Auburn, CA
-Don-   AA6GA

2000 Fleetwood Tioga 24D, 7.4L, MPFI

Ten  motorcycles:
1971 BMW R75/5
1984 Yamaha Venture
2002 Suzuki DR200SE
2013 Triumph Trophy SE
2016 Versys 650 LT
2016 Moto Guzzi Stelvio
2017 H-D RoadGlide Ultra FLTRU
2017 Zero DS ZF6.5 (for RV)
2017 Zero SR 13 w/pwr tank
2020 Energica SS9

JayArr

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Re: solid-state lithium metal batteries
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2021, 07:06:32 PM »
Look at the voltage. A single cell Lithium battery is typically 3.6V. If that is what you see then it's a cell. If the voltage is 7.2V then it's a battery, a 2 cell battery but a battery just the same.

Battery: A container consisting of one or more cells, in which chemical energy is converted into electricity and used as a source of power.

Another definition that hints at the origins: A set of similar units of equipment, typically when connected together.

1992 Fleetwood Terry Resort 19E