Possible solution: 3/4 ton diesel and 5th wheel toyhauler

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We went and test drove '08 F350 4x4 and Dodge 3500.

Given that these were MSRP at nearly $50K, I don't know what good it did me, but for the balance, we liked the Ford better.

The Ford had more comfy seats, better interior, just a tad longer bed which help for stuffing a pair of dirt bikes in them when not hauling the trailer. The Ford also had better performance off the line and into the upper revs, such that they were. The Dodge motor was actually quieter than the Ford on the outside while it was about the same on the inside. My wife hated the Dodge seats because they were not long enough to support her thigh. I have shorter legs and they didn't do much for me either. She hated the seats five minutes into our 20-minute ride. The other problem was that she prefers the Dodge "Mega Cab" planform. This was an enormous cabin with enough room in back to recline the seats. The regular Dodge "Quad Cab" is just slightly bigger than Chevy's extended cab and had seats that were uncomfortably upright.

I bumped into my neighbor today, fresh from the Enduro-Cross race in Las Vegas. He had just sold his 2006 6.0L F250 (trouble-free in 60K miles) and purchased an '08 F350 for towing a new 37-foot Fiver (about 17,000 pounds, loaded, I think).  :eek: He has airbags on the F350 and a $2500 sliding hitch.

We talked it over and his opinion was that I'd be better off going with a bumper-pull trailer with the proper load-distributing gear and sticking with a 3/4 ton. He also suggested getting one that was under 30', if everything fit, to avoid the likelihood of a third axle.

As for the tow vehicle, he used to be a Chevy guy when his vehicles were purchased for him by his company. When he had to buy one for himself, he added up the plusses and minuses and they equaled Ford. He said Ford's "Torque-Master" tranny is worthy of competing with the Allison tranny.

His opinion of the Chevy was that it was literally glued together, squeaked, and had a frame of questionable strength.

As for the trailer he would consider, he said I was safe with any of the sub-brands made by Thor.

I have new data points, anyway.    :D

That 2002 Ford F250 with the 7.3L is lookin' better and better. My neighbor says it doesn't hold a candle to the 6.0 or 6.4 Ford, but his opinion is that 7.3 has all I'd need.

Rick

 
You need not worry about the F250 just because it is a "3/4 ton".  The F250 and F350 are essentially identical - it's just that the F350 when configured with dual rear wheels can carry more weight on the truck bed and therefore on the hitch. The F250 and F350 SRW are identical in towing capacity and payload.

You need to be looking at the actual numbers in the towing guides and forget your (and others) possible misconceptions. 

Here is a set for Ford 2002-2008 Towing

Here is the current Dodge Towing Guide

And here is Chevy/GMC:

2005 Chevy/GMC Specs
2008 Chevy/GMC specs




 
What I really have to get now is some reliable numbers on the GVWR for the toy haulers. We were going to get that at the RV lot after the truck shopping was done but my family was zonked.

BTW, my neighbor stuffs a Rhino in the back of his, along with two or three dirt bikes and he opted for an 8.5' wide trailer.

Rick
 
What I really have to get now is some reliable numbers on the GVWR for the toy haulers.

Yeap, that goes and in hand with the truck data. You can get GVWR (or Dry Weight plus Carrying Capacity) from nearly all the manufactures web sites. Stay home and let your fingers do the walking, at least for the the first stage.
 
AZRickD said:
What I really have to get now is some reliable numbers on the GVWR for the toy haulers. We were going to get that at the RV lot after the truck shopping was done but my family was zonked.

Rick

Whut Gary says.  However, if you are actually at a dealer's lot, you can find the GVWR of a trailer on the DOT plate -- left hand side of the trailer exterior at the front.

Did we ever say that you should never trust anything a salesman tells you?  No?  Well we should have.  ;D
 
Yeah, what Carl says.  'Cause you can bet out of 10 dealers you speak to, 11 will tell you "Oh, that truck will pull this no problem!".  Go ahead, try it and see.

As a case in point, I went to one dealer once and talked to him about 5th wheels.  I asked him what the tow capacity of my truck was (2003 Ford F-250, crew cab, short bed, 5.4L gas engine, 3.73 rear end...all those factor in to the tow capacity).  He said the F-250 has a tow rating of 12,000 pounds.  I asked him if that's what "MY" truck will tow.  He said yes, that truck can tow up to 12,000 pounds.  I already knew the answer of course.  And he even went to the dealer site and downloaded the tow specs for the F-250.  When I tried to point out to him all the specifics of my truck, he kept insisting that it could tow up to 12,000 pounds.

Just one example.
 
IMHO most salesman or dealers will tell you what ever they perceive you need to hear to close a sale.  They aren't concerned since it is not their safety that may be at risk.  Good rule is never belive a salesman.
 
Looks like the sweetspot is an '06 Dodge 2500 MegaCab. This based on price, reliability, and my wife's insistance.      :-X

Selection isn't too bad, so I'll take my time to find a good deal.

Now, the really hard part. The trailer. This could take a while.

Later, (much  :D  )

Rick
 
AZRickD said:
Looks like the sweetspot is an '06 Dodge 2500 MegaCab. This based on price, reliability, and my wife's insistance.      :-X

Selection isn't too bad, so I'll take my time to find a good deal.

Now, the really hard part. The trailer. This could take a while.

So what is the tow rating of the rig?
 
Here is the generic info from the Dodge Towing Guide. I'll check for actual numbers when I find a suitable one for purchase. The 3500 would give me ~900 more capacity.

Trailer Life has similar numbers that sometimes vary with tranny, ratios etc, sometimes not.

http://www.trailerlife.com/towratings/2006/TowingRatings_p20_33.pdf

2006 dodge ram pickup 2500 LARAMIE MEGA CAB, MEGA CAB, 4WD, 6.25 FT Bed, 4-Speed Automatic Transmission, 5.9-Liter HO Cummins Turbo Diesel Engine:

With 3.73 Axle Ratio Axle Ratio You Can Tow 12500 lbs
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) = 9000 lbs
Payload = 1669 lbs
Curb Weight = 7331 lbs
Curb Weight Front/Rear = 4354 lbs/4354 lbs
GAWR Front/Rear = 5200 lbs/6010 lbs
Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) = 20000 lbs

With 4.10 Axle Ratio Axle Ratio You Can Tow 12500 lbs
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) = 9000 lbs
Payload = 1669 lbs
Curb Weight = 7331 lbs
Curb Weight Front/Rear = 4354 lbs/4354 lbs
GAWR Front/Rear = 5200 lbs/6010 lbs
Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) = 20000 lbs
 
AZRickD said:
Here is the generic info from the Dodge Towing Guide. I'll check for actual numbers when I find a suitable one for purchase. The 3500 would give me ~900 more capacity.

Trailer Life has similar numbers that sometimes vary with tranny, ratios etc, sometimes not.

http://www.trailerlife.com/towratings/2006/TowingRatings_p20_33.pdf

OK, give yourself a safety factor of 10% on that 12,500 lb tow rating.  Look for trailers with a GVWR of no more than 11,250 lbs and you should be in business.
 
I might be trying to fit a round Ranger into a square toy box.

2200 pounds of toys, not including water, fuel, food, clothes, gear.

Even if I leave behind 500 pounds of quads, I'm right on the margin (I think).

Yikes.

Rick
 
AZRickD said:
I might be trying to fit a round Ranger into a square toy box.

2200 pounds of toys, not including water, fuel, food, clothes, gear.

Even if I leave behind 500 pounds of quads, I'm right on the margin (I think).

Yikes.

Rick

Yup.  Time to start looking at the F-450 class of truck -- if you still can.  You got a lotta toys. 
 
I don't think this is going to work, if I choose safety over "efficiency."

It appears that my dirt bike buddies have been paying not a whole lot of attention to toy ratings. One admitted that the 37' triple-axle, pop-outted toy hauler (with Rhino, bikes, gear, tools, fuel) is about 3,000 pounds over what his '08 Ford F350 diesel is rated to pull. Lots of folks that I race with are pulling bigger trailers than I would contemplate buying with 3/4-ton trucks.

I have been led astray.   :-\

My wife is snickering, "RV, Rick. RV."  (which was her original choice , btw).     :-*

What a zig-zag course this is taking.

We've been "getting by" with renting a 1999 Class C 26' Tioga RV with a V10 Ford while trailering the Ranger. Of the Class C motorhomes we've checked, the tow rating is a generic 5,000 pounds.

To continue in this mode with (all of) our toys, we'd have to buy something bigger like a tandem axle 7x16 footer http://www.bigtextrailers.com/trailers/tandem_axle/70CH.html .

Those have a GVWR of 7,000# and a curb weight of about 1,700# so 1,700 + 2,200 should be well within the abilities of some or most V10-powered Class C machines.

So, shifting gears, it looks like I have to look into the plusses and minusses of a Class C (I know some of you are sending Class-A brain waves to my wife).

Plusses. I get to keep my fuel-efficient commuter vehicle. We don't have to stop to make wee-wee. A used Class C looks to be cheaper than the combination of a used diesel truck and used 30' toy hauler.

Minuses. Depreciation on another toy that has no other use but to have fun (ie, I can't just trade in my current driver and say, "Heck, I'm just trading up in vehicles that have two uses."). Extra insurance. Another motor and driveline to maintain. Yadda Yadda.

Adding up the costs of all of this is staggering. Loan payments, insurance, maintenance, depreciation. For the cost of one year's worth of ownership (truck and toy hauler, including fuel), I could rent the Tioga well over two-dozen times. Of course, there's that three-day minimum, scheduling, and having to get it all unpacked before the sun goes down at the end of the weekend.

Okay, boys and girls, point out the errors of my ways.

Rick
 
No errors that I can see - you've captured the dilemma quite neatly.

And it certainly is common to overload trucks, but we are conservative here and take a dim view of that. Not that I've never done such a thing... Those trucks will pull a heck of a lot more than they will handle safely in an emergency stop or swerve too.

So, either you buy a trailer that will handle your toys and get a truck big enough to tow it safely and surely. Or you bite the bullet on the motorhome expense. Or you endure the hassle of renting.  I'd pick the trailer, I think. 2200 lbs of toys isn't that much - I carry more gear than that in my Class A and its just odds and end.

A toyhauler like the Fleetwood Gearbox 295FS has a payload of 5550 lbs and a GVWR of 13,800. An F250 won't quite handle that, but an F350 dually diesel will do it nicely. The Dodge or Chevy/GMC would do equally well. IS your hang-up the 1 ton dually?
 
AZRickD, I tried to reply but it came in as a new topic.  Take a look at the post two topics up <http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index.php?topic=14310.0>.  I hope the info will be helpful.

Toyhauler Truck Experience

[edit]Moderator added hot link to thread[/edit]
 
D-Hamb,

Your post over there kinda freaked me out.  :eek:

Darn shortbed Dodges !!

I can vouch for odd things happening when the truck is at a different angle than the trailer. Like pulling out of a gas station where the parking lot slopes down into the road and the road slopes up (forming a shallow V). All your measurements go out the windo with the addition of a few degrees of angle on both sides. And then you make a turn and become a test pilot as you get to experiment with right triangles, cosines and Pythagorean theorem (and the scratches and dents they might create).

Roamer,

I do have an issue with a dually. But mostly it is psychological. I was hoping for the smallest, most efficient package possible in my "Barbie Dream World" of recreational towing. Like trying to get by with a li'l Indian elephant when you really need the brawny African variety but you don't want to feed it.

My biggest concerns are our long, curvy, 6+% grades here in Arizona. Ask anyone about Interstate 17 and Black Canyon City. I can't afford to be overloaded without enough brakes to calm the inertia.

I think the truck/toy-hauler solution is probably the one to go for, but I have to get more trailer information. I'm going to visit the trailer dealer tomorrow and get some serious data on GVWR and measurements related to the Polaris Ranger (75" tall, 59" wide), and the rest of my toys. I may have to leave a quad or two home during races and leave the bike home during generic camping.

As was said here before, "It's all a compromise."

Rick
 
Sorry about that bud but I wanted you to know the dirty truth about Diodge trucks.  Damn them, they didn't think about fivers when they designed their shortbed truck bed/wheelbase.  And if you're like me you go out and buy one to learn it won't work then take a beating.  Problem is you can't hitch up your fiver to a new truck and take it for a test drive and sales people are generally full of sh**.

I too avoided the dually and am still happy I did.  Too darn big - heck my long bed quad cab SRW is huge and barely fits in my garage.  The only good excuse for having one I have heard is if you have a blowout on the truck rear while navigating a curve with a load you will wreck.  I haven't had a blow out in over 30 years and tires are better than they used to be.

Good luck.
 
Guess it is a matter of personall choices and opinions.  There are three short bed Dodge pickups in the park we are in near Dallas.  I was talking to one guy on Wed and he had a GMC previously and was not a bit happy with it especially when he put a ding in it and the trailer making a turn into his driveway.  He traded it off for the Dodge and is a happy camper.  I did ask about the ding and he replyed he didn't want to talk about it.  Whoops looks like two of the Dodges pulled out this morning.
 

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