How & when to check brakes

I agree, Drivers likely make more difference in brake wear than who built it.. Truck brakes are built to last a long time as compaired ot cars

However,,, I also agree with the person who said "When it comes to safety, erring on the side of caution is good"

I would rather do an unneeded brake inspection than wish I'd done a needed one... Option one costs what, an hour's labor and takes your MH out of service, what... Well, since it's normally done in conjunction with other work,,, said hour.

Option 2 can take not only your RV but YOU out anywhere from a few days, to weeks, to months to R.I.P.

(That is rest in peace for you, pieces for the MH)

Short story: I got sued (True too, I really did get sued) Brakes failed on my van (Mild conversion Maxi Van, I don't know if it would have qualified as a "B" or not... Possibly would when I had a toilet in it) Brakes failed and my wife could not stop in time to avoid rear ending a Eagle Talon with her Dodge B-250 Tradsman 3/4 ton Maxi Van.

I knew we were going to get sued when I went to pick her up, looked at the damage to the car, and how the people in it were being loaded into ambulances for their trip to the hospital...  Sure enough. We got sued.

Well... When the body shop called I went over the brakes with one of their tecnicians looking over my shoulder.. Found the part that failed (Less than six months old, It's mate was still in good condition)  I still had the box it came in, reciept stapled to the box.

Well... Wife and I got as far as the depositions.. She, of course, was seriously intimidated by the lawyers and all that, I'm a police dispatcher, not so easily intimidated (Civilian employee of a police agency, you get over intimidation FAST or you don't LAST)

They got to me, the idiot Kentuckey Coronel of a lawyer claiming that I did knowingly and willing allow a vehicle to be operated and all that crud.  Well.. I had to box, I had the reciept and I had the reciept for some follow up brake work about six months after the accident.  "My" (The insurance company's) attorney ask me why I'd just sunk an additional 700 into the brakes on that ride (new rotors and drumbs in addition to shoes and pads) and I said "Because when I inspected the system... It needed doing"

My insurance settled with the plantiffs out of court,  I think it was 3,100.00  Even the adjuster who read me the settlement was amazed, Seems the opening offer was about 3 times that.

Doing that annual brake inspection saved my insurance about 7 Grand,,, Saved me too

Although I do a lot of maintenace checks all along this one at the Spartan Service Center to check for brake wear came with an extra benefit in that in addition to having piece of mind knowing the exact condition of the brakes after 90,000 miles the Tech noted the cooling fan blades were beginning to crack.  It would have just been a matter of time before that fan would have come unglued possibly causing all kinds of additional damage.  We now have a new fan.

Like you, we have paper work indication the brakes were check and found to be in good condition for continued service.

Better Safe Than Sorry.

I have never had brakes go on a vehicle I was driving and wonder if there is any warning, such as gradually increasing difficulty stopping.  Or does the vehicle just suddenly not stop?  I assume one or the other is more common.

--pat

Pat,

There are many clues as to when your brakes are 'going', ranging from very subtle to "holy s--t"! I'll list a few in a somewhat ascending sequence of severity; others probably can and will add more. These items pertain to hydraulic brake systems and while some of them certainly apply to air brakes, I'm sure air brakes may give other symptoms, so I'm hoping the air brake experts will add their clues/suggestions.

1. It doesn't seem to stop as well as it used to. Possibly worn pads/shoes or galled rotors/drums
2. Brakes squeak or squeal - probably shoes or pads are worn to the point where the metal rivets holding the shoes/pads to the linings are rubbing on the rotors/drums.    Definitely time to replace them and possibly have the rotors/drums 'turned'
3. Brakes grab - usually on one side, and can be felt by the steering pulling to one side when applying brakes. Brake pads/shoes may have become contaminated with brake fluid, grease or something else. You can't clean 'em; replace 'em.
4. Brakes pedal pulses when applying brakes. Good indication that the rotors are warped due to excessive heat under heavy braking. This DOES NOT apply to ABS brake systems under emergency stopping conditions, in which case brake pulsing is normal and to be expected.
5. ANY indication of leaking brake fluid on the ground or the wheel rims. Could be damaged brake line or bad cylinder seal or caliper seal. Check and repair immediately!
6. Spongy pedal - usually an indication of air in the brake line. Shouldn't happen unless there's a leak somewhere which allowed the master cylinder fluid reservoir to run low, or a leaking brake line. Check and repair immediately!
7. Brake pedal goes down to floor (or nearly so) and may require pumping to get adequate braking effect. Possibly bad master cylinder or leak in brake lines. Check and repair immediately.

If the fluid level is low, the brake light on the dash will (hopefully) come on when applying the brakes. Don't just filll the reservoir; determine the cause it went low in the first place.

Pat said:

I have never had brakes go on a vehicle I was driving and wonder if there is any warning, such as gradually increasing difficulty stopping.  Or does the vehicle just suddenly not stop?  I assume one or the other is more common.

--pat

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Generally there is warning, (The other poster did a very good job of posting the warnings, I"m not sure if he got strange noises (usually metal on metal grinding, a very bad sign that says "you should have fixed the brakes YESTERDAY!)

In the case of my wife's accident,,, First stop, perfectly normal, brake function 100%  Second stop was OH S@@@@!  Brake funciton zero percent.... Had I not found out what the problem was before driving it again the damgae would have been much greater

I get the pulsing, but have been told that's the ABS system.? I get none of the other symptoms.  One thing that concerns me, and it probably isn't anything to do with the brakes, is that my car (Chevy Tracker, '99, manual, 4wd) smells hot for a few days after I've towed it.? I'm quite meticulous about running the motor every 200 miles during towing.? It crackles from heat any time it's driven.? I thought there was a brake problem and had them checked as previously noted.? Only about 15% wear.? That was a couple years ago.? It had 43,000 miles on it when I bought it 2 1/2 years ago, and I put on only about a tenth of that with my driving habits.?

--pat

Pat,

The pulsing should ONLY occur when you're standing hard on the brakes and they lock up or if you're dirving in snow and rain and a wheel locks up. The ABS, by quickly applying and releasing the brakes in rapid succession, allows you to steer the car, which you wouldn't be able to do if your wheels weren't turning.? If you're getting that pulsing under normal barking conditions, something is wrong - either the ABS is malfunctioning (unlikely) or you have warped rotors or bad drums (more probable). That should be braking; not barking ;D

Smelling hot for a few days? That's a long time even if it's been closed up in hot weather for a long time. Does it do that when you're not towing? Could be brake drag or the tranny not getting proper lubrication. What does it smell like???

I don't know what's recommended for a Tracker, but starting it every 200 miles may be doing more harm than good - unless you run it until it gets up to normal operating temperature. A cold engine creates lots of moisture which will corrode the exhaust system in short order, and running an engine for only a few minutes is not good for the moving parts which get a lot of wear during those first few minutes.? ?

Karl said:

starting it every 200 miles may be doing more harm than good - unless you run it until it gets up to normal operating temperature.

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Understand your point Karl. The 200 miles number is thrown around a lot, but it happens to be the frequency recomended by Honda for their earier Accord - start the engine and run the transmission through a sequence. Nothing said about getting things up to temperature.

Tom,

Very interesting, and I'n not suggesting going against mfg's recommendations, but Pat's 4wd manual would have to be unhooked and driven every 200, and that seems like a lot of work. Unless there's some kind of tranny lube pump that operates when the engine is running, I can't see how just starting it and shifting thru the gears would help - nothing is turning when you've got the clutch in. Am I missing something very basic here??

Karl said:

nothing is turning when you've got the clutch in.

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I'm probably confusing the picture here. The Honda I was talking about has auto transmission.

Karl said:

I can't see how just starting it and shifting thru the gears would help - nothing is turning when you've got the clutch in. Am I missing something very basic here??

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Karl

Yes, the procedure is for the automatic. No clutch ;D ;D

Oh Goody! Let's talk apples and watermelons again sometime ;D ;D ;D Sure is good to laugh once in a while!

The purpose of the 200-mile run is to lube the transfer case.  According to Chevy instructions in the manual and on their website, I shift the (still hooked up) transmission to neutral, start the motor, run it at medium speed for one minute, shut it back down, shift to second, make sure the steering wheel is unlocked, make sure the key is in ACC, and tow. 

--pat

O.k, if that's what they say, but I stick with my original advice:

A cold engine creates lots of moisture which will corrode the exhaust system in short order, and running an engine for only a few minutes is not good for the moving parts which get a lot of wear during those first few minutes.

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I figure I can at least say I did what they insist - in writing in public on the internet - I have some leverage if their motor running causes other problems. 

--pat

Hi Tom,
One other thing to consider with air brakes is to watch your air pressure gauge. If you start seeing more of a drop in pressure when you step on the pedal, I would start thinking about getting them checked. The more wear on the shoes, the more pressure it will take to get the same braking force.  Of course if you do a brake check regularly you will know if you have a problem before it gets to be serious.

Jerry Ray

jerryarlyne said:

watch your air pressure gauge.

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Thanks Jerry, although I'm not sure the Captain will look at the pressure gauge when she steps on the brakes.