Will it Fly??

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Don:

Speaking of unrealistic I guess they lost me when the treadmill became 1500'-3000' (or so) long.
 
In the original postulate, it never says the plane never moves.  That is an erroneous assumption made by many here.
Art
 
King said:
In the original postulate, it never says the plane never moves.  That is an erroneous assumption made by many here.
Art
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Including me. ;D
 
Had the vehicle been a car where the wheels are powered, it would be true that it would never move.
 
To apply it to RVing; of course it moves!

All it takes is money. ::) ::)
 
Karl said:
...
A common housefly is trapped inside a boxcar on a train traveling from point "A" to point "B", a distance of 120 miles, at a speed of 40 miles per hour. The boxcar is 60' long (interior dimension), and the fly spends the entire journey flying from one end of the boxcar to the other without stopping. When the train has reached its' destination, how far has the fly flown?
...
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John In Detroit said:
...
The fly flew sixty feet
...
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It may have felt like sixty feet to the fly, but the fly flew 120 miles plus 60 feet.  It was trapped in a 40 mph tailwind.
 
Ned said:
Bernie, of course the plane moves.  The wheels on an airplane are free wheeling and not powered.  The propeller provides the forward acceleration and it's irrelevant how fast the wheels turn.  As I said earlier, replace the propeller with a rope attached to a winch at the far end of the runway and start the winch turning.  The airplane will move forward regardless of the wheels and the treadmill.  Replace the wheels with runners and the treadmill with moving ice and it's easier to picture but the same logic applies.
Click to expand...

Ned

Only the wheels (and propeller or jet engine) are moving. Your winch prohibits the plane from moving to the rear with the treadmill. The winch is a different scenario. The question specifically says that the treadmill accelerates in line with the airplane but in the opposite direction. 60mph forward and 60mph rearward cancel each other out and the plane's ground speed is 0mph. The postulate doesn't have to say the plane doesn't move, the net effect is the same as a car. Where the power comes from is irrelevant. The wheels move but the plane does not move except in relationship to the treadmill. If it moves then the postulate is not valid.
 
I'm beginning to think this is one discussion that will require a full bottle of single malt at QZ to resolve. ::) ::)

And I am NOT volunteering to bring it.
 
Karl said:
Wrong.
Click to expand...

Since my answer is not the stnadard way of phrasing it you may have mis-understood

The standard reply is "you ask either guard which door the OTHER guard would say is the door to heaven and then go through the OTHER door"  Both answers get you to the same door and to heaven.

Logic on request if you wish, E-mail will work  Question is a slight variation of the first puzzle in the book "The Lady or the Tiger"

A book I've read (The difference is in the book one door leads to freedom, one to... A hungry but soon to be well fed tiger)
 
Bernie, please reread the several explanations above that show why your logic is faulty.  Maybe we'll build a long treadmill at QZ and do an empirical experiment :)  Jeff can bring the airplane.
 
I bet that you could find a treadmill and a radio controlled model airplane at Quartzsite and then reproduce the conditions. Admittedly, the speed of the wheels and the treadmill will be hard to control, but I can envision a small hall effect sensor mounted on the plane wheels and treadmill and a little PLC controller hooked up to to the treadmill speed control. Of course the sensor on the plane wheels would have to be WiFi and Ned would have to put on his thinking cap to do the programing of the PLC.

I have seen some RC planes that literally leap into the air with only a run of several feet. I think it has something to do with a power to weight ratio.

But this "proof of concept" demonstration should be good for at least two bottles of single malt<<GGG>>.

Chet18013
 
For two bottles of single malt, I'll make the outcome any way you want :)
 
You could simulate it pretty well on a treadmill with a toy airplane.  But use your hand for the airplanes thrust.  As the treadmill starts up, you just hold the airplane in position or move it forward, letting the wheels spin.  Speed the tread mill up and move the airplane forward with your hand, the same way the airplanes thrust would function.  When ready, pick it up.  ;D
 
Lowell, you're taking all the fun out of the experiment :)  That's probably the easiest to understand, however.
 
    IT'S SHOWTIME

  Promo on TV today: Plane on a treadmill, Cable: Discovery Channel

                                Wednesday 01/30/08,  9PM EST/PST


                                Courtesy of "MYTH BUSTERS".

Place your bets.

carson FL

 
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