Wood Laminate Installation...glue or float?

We're replacing the wood laminate in our Class A and have heard mixed things about installation. 

Wondering what most people do...do you glue it down or float it...and why did you make the decision that you did?  I'm asking specifically about wood laminate.

Thanks for any info!

We had a new floor installed by Bradd & Hall in Elkhart this summer (Morena Sound Design), a locking laminate that is not glued or attached to the m/h. I would assume it helps relieve stress on the new flooring. We replaced carpet and the laminate was backed with an insulation material for sound and temp.

Float! Laminate needs to be able to expand and contract - it is after all a wood product. Lay down the underlayment foam, use spacer blocks and keep the edges of the floating floor about 1/4" away from the walls. After you are done, you cover the edges with quarter round or base shoe molding. The box(s) of laminate flooring will have the proper instructions. There are some flooring you can glue, but with the twisting, etc from the frame as you drive down the road, if it's glued, something will eventually break where the floating floor will take the movement in stride with a lot less possibility of buckling.

Larry

Laminate is normally floated, with roughly 1/4-1/2 inch gaps at the edges to allow for expansion as well as movement.  The gaps are covered with moldings at the edges (walls, cabinets, etc). Obviously not possible to use a molding under a slideout, but I don't think the floor is going to slip out the slide opening! 

If you really feel you want to glue, contact the flooring manufacturer for advice before attempting. I suspect they will say "no way!", but you can explain the situation and ask.

Jeff Cousins said:

We had a new floor installed by Bradd & Hall in Elkhart this summer (Morena Sound Design), a locking laminate that is not glued or attached to the m/h. I would assume it helps relieve stress on the new flooring. We replaced carpet and the laminate was backed with an insulation material for sound and temp.

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Just wondering if the laminate came with the backed insulation material or if a separate pad was used.  Someone else had e-mailed me having had a floor replaced at this same place and said that their floor had an attached backing so no additional pad was needed.  Was yours this way, too?  Do you remember the manufacturer of your floor and roughly the price per square foot?  How's it held up for you so far?

Also...they are not taking off the slide to replace my floor.  Did they have to do any of that in your MH?

Thanks again to all that replied to my posting!!!  It really helps to get all this feedback!

N8iveTexan said:

Just wondering if the laminate came with the backed insulation material or if a separate pad was used.  Someone else had e-mailed me having had a floor replaced at this same place and said that their floor had an attached backing so no additional pad was needed.  Was yours this way, too?  Do you remember the manufacturer of your floor and roughly the price per square foot?  How's it held up for you so far?

Also...they are not taking off the slide to replace my floor.  Did they have to do any of that in your MH?

Thanks again to all that replied to my posting!!!  It really helps to get all this feedback!

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Yes, the underlayment comes attached to the laminate and no other material was applied.

Moderna by BHK was the particular product used for our floor.

The laminate was installed with the slide brought in about two or three inches which is enough for the slide to rise and make it possible to get under the slide to the edge of the motorhome floor.

Having installed both kinds - though not in a MH  (backing installed/adhered to the back of the laminate Vs. where a seperate underlayment is used), I  don't think there is any real difference with the finished product.  The advantage to having the underlayment already attached is that it is somewhat easier to work with and the underlayment doesn't wrinkle up during application.  It might have a tendency to do so during application in a somewhat confined space like a MH.  On one application, over a wooden sub-floor, which was particularly uneven, I used both the underlayment material under the laminate which already had underlayment applied.  A little more expensive but worth it because all the joints were tight and showed no signs of 'heaving'. 

Several companies make a variety of different laminates, with or without backing attached.  The thing to watch for is the actual thickness of the laminate material - which is applied to a fibrous wood backing and will be shown as mm. - the thicker the laminate (and usually more expensive) the more durable.  One of the difficulties you may encounter in a MH is what to attach the shoe (quarter-round) / base moulding too.  It is not attached to the lamitate itself, but to the walls where the laminate butts up to and rests on top of the flooring, concealing the expansion gap.  That might present a problem with some applications.  Care should be taken in using an appropriate length nail/brad and where the nailing is actually performed. Also, unlike homes where the shoe or baseboard is typically  nailed into the 2"x4" horizontal bottom plate behind the drywall, no such lumber exists in a MH.  The shoe would therefore be nailed/stapled into the MH inner decorative skin, typically a thin 1/4" laminated hardboard composite.  IMO glueing the shoe to the walls should be avoided, though could work in some areas.

If you are reasonable agile,  have patience and access to  miter/chop and jig saws, it really is a DIY project.

BT

Instead of nailing the shoe molding, you could do what we did in our sun room with concrete floor and walls - liquid nails. Works great and if you need to remove it, it does still come off, but with quite a bit of gentle persuasion.

Personally, if I was going to redo a floor to appear as a wood floor, I would not use a laminate (picture of wood on fiberboard backing which is highly suseptable to moisture damage) - no particular reason except I don't like pictures on the floor. I would spend a couple more bucks and get manufactured wood flooring. It's available as thin as laminate is "real" wood veneer as the top layer of a plywood type structure. Much stronger and if gotten wet, it will usually dry without staying permanently buckled as would fiberboard.

Larry

I re-covered the linoleum in my '94 Dolphin with a cheap laminate from Home Depot and the results were really nice looking, I was really proud of the installation. I glued the pieces of pieces of laminant together with what looked like white Elmer's glue and then glued the laminate to the floor with a linoleum mastic. The edges that mated with the walls and cabinets were then covered with a 3/8 X 5/8 molding. After a couple of years I found that there was some buckleing in the area around the shower. Later, I left the roof vent open and it rained while we were gone. A tree branch got into the mechanism and the automatic rain closure did not work. There was a small amount of water on the floor below the vent. The next day I got some buckleing where the water had been. It really made my great installation look bad. I believe if I had someway used a good sealer over the laminate to keep the water out of the joints the problems would not have ocurred. The sealer would have kept the water out of te joints.

If I do the floor in my Horizon I will use the manufactured wood and not the laminate, I will also try to seal the surface after installation.

Wayne

Please read...I have a question in the 2nd  and 3rd paragraphs!

Re: Laminate vs. Real Wood...I was a little nervous about going with a "real" wood product because I have two kids (12/14) and have heard that the laminate will maintain better and not get as scratched.  We're not real good about doing things ourselves...just not talented in that way...so if something went wrong we'd have to have someone else fix it.  I was looking at the laminate just because it's a little less maintenance...but will look into the engineered wood before making a final decision...any additional info about pros/cons would be greatly appreciated.  (we don't have dogs...just 3 cats, too!)

Found out that Newmar glues their floor and when fixing, they glue it, too...but so many people I've spoken to via e-mail and posts and also have spoken to a few shops that redo floors...and they float the laminate floors.  I've been told they (my dealer) will do what I want...either glue or float, so I'm leaning toward floating because of the possibility of it expanding and contracting and think it will hold up better in the long run.  The installer that they have contracted hasn't ever floated a floor in a motorhome, though, but has in a house...is this "no big deal" and should the installation be the same...just a smaller area?

Any recommendations about the pad underneath? 

Thanks for any info/suggestions/advice!

'Laminate' flooring does not have to look like wood.  There are several manufacturers who produce a laminate floor, which looks like ceramic tile.  It typically comes in squares,  just like 12"x12" or 16"x16" floor tiles and has a textured surface and grout lines.  It is installed in the same way as 'floated' laminated strips, but looks like tile.  It is very durable and considerably lighter than ceramic tile.

An advantage with 'real' or engineered wood surface over laminate is that it can be resurfaced, if of  reasonable quality and thickness, should mishaps occur.  Laminate flooring cannot. Actually a 'wood' floor can also be a 'laminate' - in this instance a thin veneer of selected hardwood is applied (or laminated)  over another hardwood backing. This particular style can not generally be refinished, but that depends on the thickness of the veneer.  Chips or dings in wood floor may not look as bad as similar dings in laminate and they are easier to remove and/or filled.  Wood floor can be (and should be) sealed after application.  Laminate floor generally should not be sealed.  If the edges are glued together in the laminate flooring application, the glue provides something of a seal to prevent moisture seeping between the joints.  The surface, otherwise, is 100% water and stain resistant.  Wood surfaces require more maintenance to keep them sealed and can stain.  Laminate surfaces require just a light dusting (swiffer) and cleaning with a mild cleaner.  it is not a good idea to use a mop and bucket of water in the event too much water seeps between the cracks.    Laminate floor is usually less expensive, but a good quality laminate may be more expensive than a lesser quality wood flooring.  IMO either style should be floated (in MHs) for the reasons stated in other posts.  Wood Vs Laminate is a matter of choice, there are pros and cons with both.  Some of the most popular 'wood' floors are made from bamboo.  The surface is very durable, usually is less 'busy' than typical oak/ash plank style floor and are usually lighter in color.  Might make for a very attractive finish, depending on your particular taste and existing decor.  Both laminate and wood floor will come in basically the same sized plank.  Bamboo is also available in a laminate.

Laminate will have a representation of 'real' wood grain imprinted into the surface, with possible several strips to make up each plank.  Wood floor will usually be a single plank with the grain exposed.  That surface can be installed 'finished' (stained/oiled/sealed) or unfinished, in which case the staining/sealing etc. is done after the application and can be messy.  Wooden 'parquette' flooring is a style, often found in older homes and some MH.  That is usually installed in a square tile fashion and typically glued to the sub-floor.  Some wood and laminates require no adhesives between the joints and simply 'lock' or click in place.  Others require gluing.  IMO there are no significant advantages over either in appearance, just ease of installation.  However, if no glue is used it would be easier to replace a damaged strip or two, should that become necessary.

BT

Great information...thank you very much for taking the time to go through all that!

Buddy gives excellent advice on laminates.

I've done two laminate projects at home. One is an extensive area of kitchen and patio-entry way that looks like slate tiles but in fact is 15x30 pieces of laminate from Armstrong.  The surface is actually clear-coated and impervious to most everything.  I glued the seams in the kitchen work area to avoid the possibility of water spills seeping into the seams, but the entire floor (500 sq ft) is floated. Armstrong recommends gluing the seams in areas that may get wet, but they also recommend against using laminates in areas that get wet regularly, e.g. a bath.

The second  laminate "floor" is the wood veneer type and I actually used it as a wall covering at one end of the living room. That laminate is glued to the wall and has been happily in place for about five years now.

Frankly, Texan, I would not use a laminate in your situation. Bits of gravel or sand under  your feet (common in campsites) can scratch it and the likelihood of it getting wet at times is high, e.g. water leaks.  Look into high end synthetic (e.g. vinyl) tiles - they have flexible materials in all kinds of lovely styles and colors that is often all but indistinguishable from real stone or wood. Not like linoleum at all.  The stuff isn't cheap (neither is decent quality laminate) but it is great looking and extremely durable.  Many RVs now come with this sort of flooring rather than clay or ceramic tiles - it is lighter weight and probaly easier to install. And it doesn't crack either.

I just finished installing a laminate floor in my C MH. I removed the old carpet from the main cabin and installed a tile pattern laminate.  This is the third floor I have installed.  One thing I didn't think of was the amount of time required to match all of the tiles in a tight space like a MH.  It required a lot more cutting.  I floated the floor and used a plastic vapor barrier under it.  Since I did not have 2X4s to nail the molding to I used glue on many of the small shoe pieces. I think it turned out great and my DW loves it she says it will be a lot easier to take care of. Personally I think laminate is more durable than wood , depending on the thickness of the surface.
Tony