Trying to help my parents who are "stuck" in Florida...

Hi there all,

Not sure I am posting in the correct place but I am trying to help my parents who have broken down in Florida.  Last year my parents purchased a new 34' Four Winds Hurricane. Although a year old, until a few weeks ago they had not taken a real trip yet in the RV.  They had been up to the Adirondacks (they live here in NJ) and taken a few weekend trips inside NJ but no 'real' trip until they headed to Florida recently.

Well today I received a call.  My father had heard some "terrible" noises at the rear of the RV while driving.  It was bad enough that he decided to have it checked out.  They had a hard time finding a place to look at it but eventually found a Ford dealer willing to look.  Apparently this dealer went to check the differential and when they went to check the oil  (fluid?) - sorry I am not very mechanical - only some salt water came out.  No oil.  Not willing to do anything else... they topped it of with the correct fluid and sent my parents on there way.  Meanwhile my parents called Thor, Ford and the RV dealership to see what might be going on.  Less than a day later the noises were back and they 'limped' into another Ford dealership near Homestead, FL.  The service folks at this place are 'very nice' according to Mom and Dad but could not believe what they were seeing.    The underside of the RV is all corroded and rusted out.  Various places underneath have what this place has determined to be sal****er damage.  There are places underneath that have sal****er in them that would require close to 3' of water to reach.  Long story short..  $3500 for a new differential and some other repairs, not including all the areas that are corroded.

Thor says not our fault.  Ford says not our fault and the dealership says "tough nuggies".  Do my parents have no recourse, short of retaining a lawyer. 

My dad didn't drive the RV through 3' of salt water!!  : )

I feel terrible for them that their "dream RV" and first trip since their retirement has taken this turn.

Any advice?

Thanks very much for reading this lengthy post?

Scott

Sounds like an RV from Katrina.

Richard

was it bought from a private owner or from a dealer

RLSharp said:

Sounds like an RV from Katrina.

Richard

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I was thinking the same thing.  Getting a attorney may just be the only way to get the dealer to refund all moneys if that is possible.

The motorhome has obviously spent some time in salt water, at least covering the chassis.  As Ron says, a lawyer will probably be needed to get recourse from the seller.  If the condition wasn't disclosed in the sales contract, then they should have a good case for a full refund.

RV was purchased new from a dealer here in NJ.  We are close to the shore but not close enough, by all accounts, for this kind of damage to have been done.

Apparently the RV was built in Indiana.  Have not tracked down if RV was originally sold to this particular dealership yet.

Were hoping to find that the RV was from some place affected by Katrina - which I realize sounds terrible.

Still doing leg work... making sure Mom and Dad are taking plenty of pictures and getting names and numbers for folks they speak with.

Thanks everyone!

NADA.com can research for a salvage title on a car but I am not sure about an RV. If they can and there was a salvage title issued the dealer is going to have a hard time defending himself.

whowhopop said:

Still doing leg work... making sure Mom and Dad are taking plenty of pictures and getting names and numbers for folks they speak with.

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Yes yes yes.  Document, document, document.  Anything and everything.  Any losses your parents suffer because of this (hotel rooms, extra meals, rental car, etc.) should be tracked.  I can see how Ford and Thor would try to justifiably avoid responsibility, since the rig was likely in perfect condition when it left their respective factories.  The dealer will be the target here.  Your parents are in even better shape with the MH being new with a warranty when purchased.  I can't see how it's possible for a dealer to not be culpable.  They may put up a fight, so a letter or phone call from a legitimate civil attorney could make a big difference in a quick resolution.  Once the dealer knows your parents will not take this lying down, they will probably (hopefully) be just as interested in avoiding a lengthy/expensive court battle and the bad press if they can.

They have started to pay for everything on their AMEX card specifically so they have records of what they are spending.  I asked them to keep the paper receipts as well.  They are already in a hotel, have a rental car and are now eating meals out instead of mostly from the RV.

They do have a warranty but the representative they spoke to at the dealership today, without having seen vehicle itself, said something like..."You have had the RV for close to a year... how do we know what has happened to it since it left our lot.  It is your word against ours".

I have a feeling if they weren't supposed to be meeting my nephews and my sister in at Disney next week they'd be heading home soon after the repairs are finished.

Again.  Thanks to all for the advice!

whowhopop said:

They do have a warranty but the representative they spoke to at the dealership today, without having seen vehicle itself, said something like..."You have had the RV for close to a year... how do we know what has happened to it since it left our lot.  It is your word against ours".

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Right.  They say that because a lot of folks will think at this point, "well gee, I guess I can't win and I'll just give up."  Dealership wins.  That's the trap your folks need to avoid at all costs, and it will happen if they stand their ground.  They can tell the reps (civilly and politely) when challenged that they are more than happy to go to court, and testify under oath to a Judge that they NEVER subjected the MH to those conditions.  Can the dealer also testify that they know without a doubt that the RV was never possibly exposed to flooded areas prior to sale?  Doubtful.  Settlement anyone? 

Let me just point out that Katrina was in 2005.  I'm guessing that your parents bought this motorhome, new, sometime in 2007?  I wouldn't be looking for Katrina damage on a motorhome this new.  Try not to get distracted by looking for a specific cause and keep your mind open to the broader number of possibilities.  For all we know it could have been parked on a beach as the tide came in.  Look for records of previous owners, Insurance claims, and try to back track the mileage on the odometer.  All of these things could help you figure out how and where this happened.

I had cause to call Four Winds / Thor regarding my MH a few months after it was purchased (new from a dealer).  I found evidence of some prior use and slight surface rust on the underside of the driver and passenger seats, amongst other things.  It appeared those areas had been subject to water and I also feared  something similar to a 'Katrina' issue.  Thor's  customer service was not particularly helpful but I was able to find out when it left the factory to go to a central distribution location.  It was from that point that 'my' dealership evidently took delivery of the unit, but some six months later.  The MH came off the line in November 2005 and arrived at the dealership lot in June 2006.  My questions to them were, "Where was it during the the first 6 months of '06 ?"  and  "Why is there evidence of moisture in an otherwise dry area?"    Neither Thor, nor the Dealership, who I also contacted several times,  were willing to provide and answer.    When I took delivery the unit had a little over 2000 miles on the odometer, which, to some extent accounted for the road miles from Indiana (manuf. site) to So. California. Clearly the MH had been 'used'  by someone during the missing 6 months, which happened to coincide with the Christmas holidays.  I discovered various Christmas ornaments under the fold-out couch and  grease splatters on the wall around the stove top.  The generator showed 10 hours of use.

I reported my concerns to the the DMV investigations unit, but still did not receive any satisfaction or explanation.  My belief is that it is  (common?)  dealership practice, especially high volume or discount dealerships, to 'trade' vehicles between themselves.  These 'transfers' are not recorded and only the 'selling' agency becomes the dealer of record (for DMV purposes). 

It may well be that your folk's motorhome sat on an unknown dealership lot, was subject to the water damage and then shipped out to the selling dealership, who may have been unaware of any issue.  They will surely claim to be a 'victim' themselves, but persevere - make a lot of noise, make complaints to the local BBB, any and all RV membership clubs (if they are members) and even local TV /radio stations.  The last thing the dealership or Manufacturer will want is bad press.  Not in these times... My issue was really only one of 'suspicion'  and I received a fairly decent discounted price on the rig, so I did not pursue it, however,  had it been more serious, similar to your folks, I definitely would have.  Motorhome manufacturers and unscrupulous dealerships must be held accountable for shady practices.  I simply can not imagine there would be any dispute if a similar thing happened with an auto, irrespective of its value, let alone one in the $75K range or greater.

Good luck
BT

Good points BT.

Our "new" coach was a year old, had 5,000 miles on it, and 100 hours on the generator. I figured the coach had spent time at RV shows &/or rallies.

Another time MH are used.

The service manager at my selling dealer was really proud to tell me that as one of management perks at this dealership is thay can personally use MH (new) and he took his friends and family to the "beach" several time a year in the dealer MH's.

Beach in the MH. That may be a good reason for the water in the first post. Imagine if the sales guy takes his family to the beach (or similiar) looses track of the tide, tries to clean up and returns it to be sold very soon after.

As to the point of the grease and the ornaments. I'd be livid. I can't imagine not having a comment on that, you can't really argue those points.

Wow.

I suggest reading the archives of a consumer action blog, the Consumerist http://www.cosumerist.com

In these situations, they usually recommend reporting it to the Better business Bureau, but only for starters.  A visit to their state attorney general's office might also provide, at the least, some helpful legal advice.  Ordinarily it would be recommended to take them to small claims court, where the manufacturer/seller would be unable to fight you down with fancy, expensive lawyers but because of the potentially high cost of the repairs/replacement, you would have to weigh the costs/benefits of that decision.

Seriously, though, you should email your issues into the Consumerist folks, include the values of the motorhome and repairs, and see if they have any advice.

I find it hard to believe that this MH sat in any sort of "flood" condition without damage to the flooring, Wheels, etc.  I would suggest looking at where the chassis was manufactured.  It seems as the major damage is to this part of the motor home.  It is possible that the chassis sat in flooded salt water prior to being shipped to the MH manufacturer...........(still leaves some culpability on the part of the manufacturer for using that chassis).

It is common for a bare chassis to sit in the coach manufacturers yard for lengthy periods, until an coach order arrives for a model that would require that particular chassis.  I've seen some rather rusty hulks sitting around the chassis shop at more than one RV factory.

They need professional help. Specifically a lawyer.

It appears the unit was subjected to flood damage, As someone else said, Hurricane or otherwise it got in deep ocean water

IN Most states (I do not know about Florida) it is required that the dealer disclose this kind of thing to the prospective buyer.

Since they bought NEW from a DEALER (OP mentioned this) they had a right to expect no flood damage

Thus, They need to speak to a lawyer.. One who specializes in auto-related complaints

But I strongly suspect the lawyer will conclude there is an actionable case here.

Thanks to all for the replies thus far.  Apologies for the recent lack of updates but I was traveling  on business for the last few days and more/less out of touch with my parents in FL.

Everyone on the forum has been so helpful... it really is incredible and such a valuable asset.

So here is the latest...  the (Ford) dealer that my parents crept to attempted a repair which was not successful.  I think they replaced the differential.  Told my parents it was ready and to take it for a test drive around the block. My  father still heard noises.  The mechanic agreed and put it back up on the lift... and "fixed" something.  On the next test drive...the rear wheels apparently locked up and the RV wouldn't budge.  The dealer had to do some mechanical triage in the street before they could even tow the RV back to the dealership.

So... more parts are on order.  My parents are on their way to DisneyWorld in a new Chevy van provided by the Ford dealership (?).

For some additional background info.  The RV had 800 miles on it when it was sold to my folks "new".  The dealership in Lakewood (NJ) was the original dealership.  It was manufactured in Sept '06.  Arrived at that dealership late Jan/ early Feb '07 and my parents took ownership on March 3rd '07.

I'll post more when I have it.  No pictures yet as Mom and Dad are not that savvy electronically speaking. 

Agree that they really need to speak to a lawyer.  Worried now that the botched repairs are "clouding" the case.  Although if it is like my father said and the undercarriage shows rust that is severely atypical of a 1 year old coach hopefully the case is still good.

At least it happened now (early in their possession of the MH) and not 3-4 years down the road after many more trips.

Thanks again!!  Most appreciated!!!