How much do you tip in restaurnts?

Hi all,

We used to have such a the system of tipping in Belgium when I was young. A lot of servers liked this system. (income tax?)
Before, in restaurants, most servers just added 15% to the bill and waited/hoped for more.  Now prices are all included, personally, I like this system much more.
At the end, it doesn't matter which system, service should be allways good. 
We don't like pub's or casinos and just go to restaurants. If the food is good and the service friendly, I ad a few euros on top.
I don't consider myself fussy (who does?) but like to get what I think I am paying for.
If I am not satisfied, I allways tell the manager. I never send anything back to the kitchen. (to afraid)
I expect  better service in a more expensive restaurant.
In US (hope to tour it one day) I would find it hard to tip, if food and/or service is really crap.

thenosyone Antwerp
 

Jerry:

?What would be unfair would be to punish the server for something that is out of their control.?
I agree on this.  Good tipping can sometimes be hard work and good customers will evaluate all these conditions.

Bob:

?Of course, some servers are treated with such nastiness by some customers that it's a shame they can't give "them" a penny to show how they were evaluated as a customer.?

Well said.

I do offer one additional caveat though.  In a vendor-buyer relationship, the really good vendors over the long term are willing to accept some abuse from customers without dishing it out in return.  Often this is more effective in winning the customer over and also results in good word of mouth for the vendor.  We all know the customer is NOT always right, but the slogan ?The customer is always right? has a lot of worthwhile logic behind it.

When I was in customer service positions during my business career, I found it pretty easy to train myself to steel myself against customer abuse and not get emotionally involved.  In the long run I found this went over better with the irate customer than arguing or dishing it back.  It went better for me as well!  :  I did not even consider what my personal rights were as for the moment I was being paid to deliver customer satisfaction. 

Someday maybe I can bring this same approach to forum discussions.  LOL!  ;D

Interesting Bob about the new IRS approach.  That must have been very hard on servers.  That occupation is not usually high paying to begin with and tips in many businesses (such as charter fishing) are seldom reported.  When the IRS zeros in on one type of business and demands tips be reported as income that must have a devastating effect on the employees.  I know mates do not think they are cheating by taking home the cash tip and spending it without reporting it.  Technically they are wrong, but common practice encourages it.  I am not saying tips should be or not be reported, just being sympathetic about sudden changes in IRS policy.  As Clinton would say, ?I feel their pain.?

Bob, fascinating discourse on casino crap gaming!  If I ever gambled in a casino I would be tempted to the poker tables, as I loved that game back in the 50s and 60s.  Unfortunately they all now seem to play Texas Holdem and I am not ?up? on that game.  I would like to learn it though.  5 card stud was my favorite, with a little draw and a little 7 card or baseball.

Has anyone ever tipped RV mechanics? 

I am not out to find new sources for giving away tips, but years ago I discovered tipping boat mechanics was VERY effective.  I continued the practice with RV mechanics and they seem most appreciative and attentive.  When I picked up my new motorhome I tipped the shop foreman, the shop scheduler, the salesman, the inside prep person and the outside prep person.

I really noticed some fast scheduling and attentiveness when I returned last week to have minor warranty items cared for.

In my two years of trailering, I usually tipped the scheduler and the mechanic.  That combination got me great results.

I cannot afford 15 or 20% of a large repair bill so I max out at $25 or even $50 for superlative effort.

May I point out this is all in keeping with the theory of tipping according to the quality of service.  It may sound selfish, but I tip for my own personal benefit.  The intelligent ?tippee? is smart enough to realize this is a form of ?teamwork? between vendor and customer and will give me what I want so I give him/her what they want.  Similar to what Bob describes in the tipping relationship between player and dealer.

Thenoseyone brings in an interesting point about tips being included on the bill.  How do folks here think about that?  It does eliminate servers from cheating each other and gives a good audit trail for IRS accounting.  But is it fair to the customer?

Smoky,

>>Has anyone ever tipped RV mechanics? 

I am not out to find new sources for giving away tips, but years ago I discovered tipping boat mechanics was VERY effective.  I continued the practice with RV mechanics and they seem most appreciative and attentive.  When I picked up my new motorhome I tipped the shop foreman, the shop scheduler, the salesman, the inside prep person and the outside prep person.<<

After leaving Coachman in Middlebury IN for AZ with my first class C, whenever I returned I bought two cases of Coors and carried them back to the service department to be distributed once a year. I did it for friends, they treated me like a king. Thos that didn't drink were just glad to see me again and their coworker friends smiling.  ;D  That was six years worth.

Smoky said:

Thenoseyone brings in an interesting point about tips being included on the bill. How do folks here think about that?

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The dreaded "service charge". If service is fine, I don't have an issue with it, although deep down it feels like an imposed tip, which really isn't appropriate. It pre-presumes good service and doesn't allow me to recognize good service. When I don't get good service, I'll ask to see the manager and request s/he take the service charge off my bill, which they'll usually do.

Taking the service charge one step further, why don't restaurants just pay their server a little more and increase the menu charges accordingly? Let the restaurant owner/manager figure out how to manage the servers.

ALL,

Regarding other "folks" to tip, I tipped construction workers while our house was being built.  $100 to a plumber got me some special plumbing I wanted, $200 to framers got me lots of special modified framing, $100 to a foamer (uses foam to close openings around windows and elsewhere before sheetrock) got me a second go around after I marked other areas to foam, and many other $50 tips bought me what can never be redone after the house is completed. 

There were also many other $50 tips to finishing people for good quality work.  Re good work you just would not believe the quality of my floor moldings and window sills!  It probably cost me $1000 to $1200 in total.  Please don't remind me that the workers should have done their best in the first place, without a tip, because in real life they don't.  I paid the money and am quite happy with the value received.

JerryF

JerArdra said:

There were also many other $50 tips to finishing people for good quality work.  Re good work you just would not believe the quality of my floor moldings and window sills!  It probably cost me $1000 to $1200 in total.  Please don't remind me that the workers should have done their best in the first place, without a tip, because in real life they don't.  I paid the money and am quite happy with the value received.

JerryF

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Jerry

It is a sad commentary on the work ethic in this country when you have to tip people to do their job for which they are getting paid.

Thenoseyone brings in an interesting point about tips being included on the bill.? How do folks here think about that?? It does eliminate servers from cheating each other and gives a good audit trail for IRS accounting.? But is it fair to the customer?


Sorry, I am not sure you have it right Smoky.... probably my translating...try to explain it again, how it worked/works.
Previous, 25 years ago in restaurants they just added/wrote, 15% "service" on the bill....  100 franks + 15 franks service = 115 franks total
Now at this moment prices are put "all included".  Steak is now 15 dollar  at the end it is 15 dollar on the bill. Thats what you have  to pay.
So nobody has to feel obliged to give an extra tip on top.    You don't have to pay a part of their wages anymore by tipping.

thenosyone Antwerp

"? ?Steak is now 15 dollar? at the end it is 15 dollar on the bill. Thats what you have? to pay."

Please read  in the previous reply...
Steak is now 15 euro at the end it is 15 euro on the bill. Thats what you have to pay
I don't known why I used dollars here.  sorry....
We changed our currency from franks to euros a couple of years ago.

Jerry

I also tip folks who other work for me. As you say, it pays back in goodwill, attention and workmaship.

Bernie,

It is a sad commentary on the work ethic in this country when you have to tip people to do their job for which they are getting paid.

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Totally agree!

Many top-notch restaurants do NOT pool tips. The waitstaff that hustles gets the gold, and they will usually 'tip out' the bartender, kitchen staff and bus people at their discretion. Sue makes a lot of money because she's good and takes care of her customers well, and she gets good service from the restaurant staff because they know they will be rewarded; but only if they do their jobs. Pooling tips is grossly unfair to those who hustle and provides little or no incentive for the lazy ones to do better. There are a few exceptions, like when you have a large staff working banquets and tables are not assigned to anyone in particular.

Also grossly unfair is the restaurant that takes a percentage of the tips for themselves. They did nothing to get the tips in the first place, and shouldn't take any of it from those who did! In the case of places where you are required to pool your tips, to base the tip-out on gross receipts (food, beverage, tax) is ludicrous and borderline criminal - unless the restaurant is taking the money out of their pockets; not the wait staff's.?

Almost forgot: I pay my bill with a credit card or cash but do not include the tip in the total. That I hand to the waiter/waitress in cash. ?

Karl said:

I hand to the waiter/waitress in cash. 

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Me too Karl.

The Noseyone :

I think I got what you were saying.  My point was that while you do not have to reach in your pocket for more tip money, it is already included in the bill, which IMO is unfair to you.  Why?  Because you no longer have the option of only rewarding good service.  You end up rewarding everyone.  Or no one at all depending whether or not the tip is included in the dinner price.

Karl:

Amazingly I ran into that situation today at lunch.  I was at Bob Evans and this young lady gave me some of the best table service I have had in years.  I suspect she was just out of training and applying everything she had learned.  But I wanted her to not lose this extra energy as she grew more experienced so I gave her a very large tip. 

Unfortunately it was not cash, as you have suggested, and at Bob Evans you don't even leave the waitress your credit card.  I paid up at the cashier table.  However I told the cashier about the unusually good service.  I guess I sounded like an ole farte because I added that this was the kind of service we used to expect 30 years ago.  I then asked her if tips were split (being fresh from this thread).  She said no, the waitress gets all of it but NOT UNTIL SHE GETS HER PAY CHECK. 

OUCH!

This really caught me by surprise.  I asked the cashier "then how does the waitress get immediate feedback?"

She told me I could do two things.  One was to pay the waitress in cash at the table,  Just what you said.  I will remember this in the future.  Indeed I made a point to go back into the dining area, find the waitress, and hand her even more tip money, and told her to look for another good tip on her paycheck.  In retrospect, I hope she did not misintrepret my intentions lol!

This was getting out of hand, but what can I say after reading this thread this week?  LOL

The other thing the cashier said I could do was fill out a comment form.  She says they go to the manager every evening.  So i got the waitress's name and did just that.

Would I have done all this had this thread not been started?

I definitely would have given her the big tip.  But not the second tip.

And I would have been oblivious to the fact that she would never have gotten the good feedback, as my tip would have been buried deeply in her next paycheck.  I think that really sucks.  A good example of where tipping has gone in recent years. 

Smoky,

Now that's the spirit!

She said no, the waitress gets all of it but NOT UNTIL SHE GETS HER PAY CHECK.  OUCH!

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That's not uncommon. The IRS frowns on unreported (or underreported) income (tips) and will sometimes come back to the restaurant or waitperson for additional money. For a restaurant with high volume and more than 2 or 3 waitstaff, it would be quite burdensome to pay the credit card tips on a nightly basis; hence the amount being added to the payroll check. It also says to the IRS that the restaurant did what was required of them, and they needn't try to hold them responsible for someone underreporting income. I've heard but cannot verify that the IRS expects tip income to be, on average, 15% of the restaurant's before tax receipts.

As for tipping in cash, I trust that everyone is scrupulously honest : and will report their 'take' accordingly. I also believe in the Tooth Fairy ;D

LOL on the tooth fairy!! ;D

I go along with the majority here: 10% for so-so service, 15% for good service, and 20% or more for outstandiing service.? One thing I haven't seen addressed is do you base the tip on the total bill including tax or on the bill before tax.? Personally I find it easier to base it on the total and not have to go through the exercise of subtacting tax before calculating the tip.

Don,

I calculate it after tax is added although the tax amount is shown separately. If you figure a 15% tip on a bill with 10% tax added (probably high), that only adds 1 1/2% more. No big deal and, like you said, just as easy to figure. Now if it were a sit-down dinner for several hundred at $30 as plate (and I'm paying it all), well that changes everything ;D

But don't hold your breath - that isn't going to happen any time soon ;D ;D

Karl said:

But don't hold your breath - that isn't going to happen any time soon ;D ;D

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Karl,

Just hope we're on your list when it does!! ;D ;D ;D

While I go along with most here on the tipping amount in restaurants, what about the coffee shop tip 'Jar'?

Couple of local coffee shops I frequent and  get a plain black coffee on my bike ride, I don't feel this is a valid place to tip. Maybe if I got one of those fancy drinks that takes them a lot of time to make I might reconsider. I don't tip at MacDonalds so I look at getting a small plain coffee the same way.

This has come up in our local paper before and its a controversial issue on tipping.

Bob

Bob Zambenini said:

While I go along with most here on the tipping amount in restaurants, what about the coffee shop tip 'Jar'?

Couple of local coffee shops I frequent and  get a plain black coffee on my bike ride, I don't feel this is a valid place to tip. Maybe if I got one of those fancy drinks that takes them a lot of time to make I might reconsider. I don't tip at MacDonalds so I look at getting a small plain coffee the same way.

This has come up in our local paper before and its a controversial issue on tipping.

Bob

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Bob,

I agree with you that tipping on a plain coffee is not necessary. We drink a lot of lattes and I would be inclined to tip occasionally. Of course they cost so much that tipping might not be necessary. We try to be very friendly with the Baristas and find that makes a world of difference. We are known to frequent a coffee house a lot and I normally order a triple shot 16 oz latte. The manager of the shop we frequent in CT now adds the fourth shot without even asking. ;D ;D Tips are good but friendly conversation goes a long way as well.

Returning from  Chicago to Kalamazoo Thursday night/Friday Morning (Around midnight my time) I stopped at the first T/A plaza I came to (in Indiana on I-94)  The sit down place was "Country Pride".  I wound up leaving a 10% tip and explaing why to the manager

They had a frist trainee there, not yet authorized to take orders... He WAS the sharpest knife in the drawer if you get my drift, None of the expierenced staff came close to his level  of compentence