AC rattling - serious or not?

A slight misunderstanding, I believe. I think that chunks of my filter are inside the Squirrel Cage fan and putting it of balance. They would never reach the main outside fan blades.

I'll report when I find out.

carson

Let me ask a simple Question !  In your Area do You have Wasp ---- or  Especially  Dirt=Dobbers ?  They do Wonders too Fan Motors and Blades Inside an Out Just a small One will throw the Fan OUT OF BALANCE an cause some sever Racket  Worth Lookin AT !!

No, the wasps have not been a problem at all, for years. But I know what you mean.
  I am certain that the loss of half of my deteriorated filter material is now in the cage filter. Now I just have to figure out how to get access to it. Have Coleman A/Cs.

carson

Continuing with MY rattle problem:  I wonder how RayD is making out with his problem?

    Today I found out a bit more on the A/C 'filter/noise' problem. (pictures attached).

I took a closer look at the unit with the vent grid removed. I expected to see what I was looking for - the squirrel fan. No such luck. Picture 1 shows the opening into the bowels of the A/C. The filter is 16"x16" yet there is only a 5"x14" opening for the air to flow into the system. Inside the bowels there is only the evaporator or condenser ( looks like a small radiator with horizontal fins). Estimates size about 12" square.
  Stuck to the unit was a lot of my missing, deteriorated filter material, as well as a piece of material (black foamy plastic) stuck partially with sticky tape. It covered a big portion of the "radiator".

    Picture 2 also shows the piece as well as  the deteriorated original filter, actually falling apart when one touches it.

  So I stuck my hand up there, barely made it, and removed the pieces and the larger piece of "plastic". Don't know what purpose the large piece would have. Maybe someone forgot to remove it during installation at the factory.

  I then turned on the A/C and was amazed; no noise and a noticeable increase in air flow out of the vents. I was elated.

  I ran the A/c for about 3/4 hour and all was fine. Then... the noise, rattle/vibration started again. I shut off the compressor and only left the fan on. The vibration increased. Darn it.

  So, my next step will be to lift the cover on the roof and see what I can see. I hope to be able to see one or more fans to find out what is making it vibrating/noisy. Too hot today, will have to wait for a cloudier day. 

  One more comment, I think the filter in the grid is more intended to keep the radiator fins from becoming plugged with dirt, rather than trying to keep the RV sterile. When you are camping, where is sterility available?

    Please feel free to comment, otherwise stay tuned for the final fix.

carson FL 

I wonder how RayD is making out with his problem?

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Making out satisfactory, but not great. Spent all day, yesterday, trying to get the Service Manager on the phone at the RV dealer that sold me the coach. Now, the new Camping World RV Sales and Service. 

Finally, at 6:30 PM, he called back. They are flooded, and backed up, two weeks. Closest appt I could get is for Thurday, the 17th. I took that. He said that they mostly likely would have to order parts, which would take an extra day or two. Camping World is honoring the extended warranties, from the old dealer. He said there would be a $50 deductible and that the warranty would cover most or all of the rest. So, we will take our first trip in late July or August. (Not the end of the world. Lots of people, these days, have more trouble than that.)  ;D

In the intervening time, waiting for that service manager to call back, I called another dealer where I have had maintenance work done. They too, were backed up, but could get to me, sooner, by a week. (Either of those throws me into a week of Dr apptmts.) I asked about the cost of just diagnosing the problem. Without itemizing, $250, and they would be into it far enough that they could also do the repair, at $95 per hour. He said the chance that it was just a fan problem was small, that a more likely cost to finish would be in the hundreds. They cannot collect on our "extended warranty."

Both warned me not to  run the AC until it is diagnosed/repaired. Both said some other damage has most likely already been done. The fan motor, for one thing, is most likely "toast!"

WARNING!

For anyone contemplating buying an "Extended Warranty" from a dealer, at the time you buy the RV, don't do it. I wasn't a member, here, when we bought this coach. We didn't know what we know, now. 

We could have purchased a Good Sam warranty for half the price. Didn't know that.  :

Any other warranty would have allowed us to shop around for repairs, locally, or on the road. With the dealer warranty we have, we have to have repairs done, there, if we are within a hundred miles. Outside of that, we have to allow them to pick a repair shop, that must be within 100 miles fo where we are. There's more, but that's enough. Shop for your warranty, elsewhere, after you buy the RV.  8)

Oh, by the way, check out any service you buy the warranty from, carefully. This forum is a good place to check. Others may know of other places to check. It's a buyer's market and gong to be that way, for  a while! 

Ray D  ;D

Oh, by the way, Marsha:

On your advice, I did call a mobile repairman. Thanks for the idea. I learned something.

$75 to come out. $50 to climb up on the roof. $95 per hour to look at the AC, minimum, one hour. Total to that point, $225. Then, would probably have to order parts. That takes a few days to a week or longer. Then, same charges, again, plus parts. Could take up to two hours, once he is here with the parts. Said it is unlikely to be just the fan.

For those of you who do your own repairs, this is a big deal!

Ray D.  ;D

By the way, I am hearing a lot from friends, here, that service people of all kinds (plumbers - electricians - heating and cooling) are now charging a "mileage" fee, in addition to a "service call fee," for service calls and "estimates." No more free estimates.

One thing that can help in some places.. I have one very large (N>200 sites) campground I often stay at, In fact if I could afford to move the rig I"d be there now.    They have a Mobile RV service that is not far away.

We joke that she spends so much time in the park she should just move her garage to the property  (She services about half a dozen campgrounds by the way)

She can, and will cut down the cost of a service call by combining the millage fee for the run and spreading it around a bunch of customers.. Very nice service person.

regularguy said:

First thing in the AM call the service dept. Explain your situation and ask if they could at least look at it to see if it is something serious. They would probably let you swing by and squeeze you in. It is certainly worth a try. The worst they can say is no.

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I stand the same now as I did then. Also: Use a professional with a vested interest, such as the dealer you purchased from.If you continue to run it, there is a chance of destroying the unit. Then the trouble will not need any further speculation. It certainly could be something minor like a piece of insjulation that is loose and they could fix it while diagnosing.  But it could be serious like low charge causing the evaporator to ice and the fan hitting the ice. So if the fan doesn't get destroyed the compressor will get slugged with liquid refrigerant and fail. It could be worn bearings/sleeves. Could be a capacitor on its way out causing extra load on the fan motor or compressor. We could all continue to speculate your situation, but what is the point of that. A noise is a warning of something bigger. Go to the dealer and have it checked before operating it again.
I write this with your best interest in mind.
BTW for those in the filter debate.... use one. Carbon charcoal is the best. The fibers are so coarse they trap a lot of small particles.  IF you use any other type of filter, spray it with a filter conditioner (its like spraying with a mild "spray adhesive" that never dries). Not much gets past it. Just a light mist though. The conditioner can be purchased at any HVAC supply house or Grainger.com

regularguy, thanks, again. I did take your advice, the first time. I called the Service Manager - who I know personally - first thing in the morning, and then called him, again, second thing. Then, I called him again. They were swamped. He was returning calls late in the evening. Hope they pay overtime.  ;D

Ray D  ;D

P.S. Looks like Camping World is off to a great start, Here in Boise, in spite of the economy.  8)

Ok Guys , Where are Yall Located Because I need 2 move Their Kinda Stiffin Ya /  New Motor $145 Bucks Iner Fan(Squirl-Cage) Maybe 30 at tha Most an tha other Fan 25 to 30 Bucks,,  Youi can buy new AC unit thats a 13500 BTU for $575-625 in tha Box an a Hours labor to change em out !! An if the TECHs takin more than an Hour to check out just your fan Problems they need too go back 2 SCHOOL !  Alright/ You need too go ahead and take 2 mount bolts out on yourmetal paninside and drop it down you where alomst there for the inner fan or cage That pan is because u have ducted Air.. The other fan You should be able too see it through your Shroud on / 4 Big phillips screws an tha Shroud lifts off from tha REAR then u got it all FAN, Motor, Compressor, both fans should be made from hard black plastic unless its alot older unit,,while you got the shroud off check Motor Mounts to the main base an tha rubber mounts where feeds through Wall an iff your motorsee how much play is on tha shaft back an forth an go from there if ya got more 1/4 inch play Bushyings gone/ New motor Time,,, good LUCK

Master Tech: We're in Boise, Idaho. Come on over. Can you make it, tomorrow?  ;D

A little more info on MY A/C noise problem.

  Without doing any further checking, the A/c worked well on Tuesday, no noise. It was hot outside and the humidity rather high, 80%.
I ran the A/C for about 3/4 hour, compressor ran constantly due to hight ambient heat.

  That's when the noise started again. I also noticed that the normal water drainage from the roof over the side was missing. I immediately shut it off and left the RV for the day. I have reasons to believe that it is indeed the icing up which causes the compressor to vibrate and cause the noise. Will have to wait now until the humidity goes down for another rigorous test, time wise.

  I suppose under normal conditions, a cycling on and off of the compressor, will prevent icing; has never happened before.

My fingers are crossed, and I am willing to make a bet that that is what the problem is. The fun of living in Florida, camping in the storage compound and wanting to stay cool while there.  ;D

Any comments?

carson FL  94.1 F today  78% Humidity

If you have leveling jacks, put 1-2 down to tilt the MH slightly to one side/corner so you know exactly where the A/C condensation should run off and drip down.  If you're parked on a level surface, the water could have been accumulating on the roof without visible dripping.

When refrigeration parts ice up, it often points toward low refrigerant levels.  There could be a leak somewhere, which would probably need diagnosis by a pro.

I'll be on a plane tomorrow (w/ the wife and kids) to Sanford-Orlando area to visit in-laws, so I will get to experience that lovely heat you currently have.    We only have 4 days, not enough time to make it an RV trip from IL to FL and back.

Ah, no water drainage... As Scotty said.. Might just need to be re-leveled a bit (On MY coach it's raise the front a degree, no guarantee yours is the same)  or it may need an upper housing clean out.  (I know, not within your ability)

NOTE that this (Cleaning) is part of the annual maintenance package on those units.

Re water drainage: not quite as you guys think.
  The RV has been sitting on this level spot for months and every time, about once a week, I exercise the unit, the A/C has been draining properly. Matter of facts it splatters my drivers door window every time.

  During the last few days in the high heat and humidity, my problems started. Remember I said that the unit works well for about 1/2 to 3/4 hour continuously, then it starts to act up. I Had the shroud of not so long ago and its clean in there. So, we'll see in the near future. 

Thanks for the tips.

carson FL

another reason this should be to a pro. Or someone with experience. "low refrigerant" isn't always caused by a leak. It could be a clogged condenser (fins) and without proper cooling of the hot gas it won't "condense". If that happens the high side over pressurizes, the compressor struggles, the evaporator is starved of liquid to flash and starts to ice which further aggravates the whole situation. Hey, it could be a stupid simple piece of insulation, but I wouldn't want to find out the hard way. I always remember..... when stuff is made, the manufacturer puts a certain amount of smoke inside of it. If you do something to let that smoke out... well, it doesn't work anymore and you have to buy a new one with smoke in it.

You said something significant, "it splatters my driver's door"  This suggests it is tipped too far forward.. Re-level so the front is about 1 or 2 inches higher and see if that makes a difference.

I'd not expect it to splatter a driver's door. I'd expect it to run more to the rear

Another installment on my vibrating A/C problem..

  Today I ran another test. Another hot day (93F) and I ran the A/c for just over 1/2 hour. (Cooling was great).

The vibration started again and I shut off the system immediately. Right after shutdown I turned on the FAN only. To my surprise, the vibration was still there. Shut down the fan and proceeded to check the Evaporator coils---no ice.

  Obviously the fan assembly was the culprit. I went aloft to check the fan and shaft again... all looked ok. The motor bearing had no play and turned smoothly. While up there I squirted a bit of oil on the bearing entrance. (Read in another post somewhere that someone had cured his problems doing that).

  The only bad part I found was that the motor shaft, a long one driving the condenser fan, was extremely rusted. Heavily pitted yet evenly. I could not detect any wobble in its rotational movement. (Picture below).

  My next step will be to remove the large sheet metal housing giving me access to the squirrel cage fan on the inside  connected to the same motor on the other end. However, too hot today to spend an hour on the roof.

  I'll have to check the bearing slop on that end and if ok, another squirt of oil into that area. If the squirrel cage fan looks ok, and my oiling doesn't work, I guess it'll be a new motor sometime in the future.

  FWIW  carson FL
 

Right after shutdown I turned on the FAN only. To my surprise, the vibration was still there. Shut down the fan and proceeded to check the Evaporator coils---no ice

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After it starts to vibrate, you should let it run if FAN ONLY mode for 15-30 minutes and then see if the vibration is still there. If it's ice build-up, it takes a while for it to melt and chances are good that you can't see/feel everywhere on the evaporator where the ice may be forming - especially the space between the blower and the coil itself. It's enclosed.

Thanks Karl, I'll give that a close look/check.

  At least I know it is not the compressor laboring, just the fan mechanism. I actually ran the fan for about 15 minutes by itself... the vibration continued. Interesting project.

  Luckily I have very little need for the A/c to work this year, except for my stationary visits to the RV for rest and relaxation and dreaming of the next adventure.

carson FL