Macerating our way to happiness!

blueblood said:

do you have any elevation and long length to deal with ??

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Leo, I use 35 feet of 5/8" hose (smaller than the 3/4" recommended to prevent overheating) and have been very pleased and surprised with the results. I usually feel the pump waiting for it to get too hot, but haven't felt any undue heat. I don't have any elevation except up over the curb; From the street to my sewer cleanout is a slight downgrade.

I must admit that I was sceptical of this device and was prepared to return it to CW, used or not. But I decided it's a keeper.

Tom said:

Bob, CW sells two versions - one that uses only water (venturi action) and the other is an electrical pump with water applied from a garden hose. Which vserion does your friend have?

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Tom, I know he has the one with water action only and not electrical as he likes to show that this is all you need. But he is not pushing stuff a long distance, but just at a campgound site. I was interested in getting one if I ever went back to my son's home in Ohio as its about 50 feet to the sewer drain. There I would get the electric pump version.  But there we just use the facilities in their house most of the time and usually don't stay over 2 weeks.

Bob

Smoky said:

Every boat on the water with a head has a macerator

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Smoky, just to follow up on Robert's comment. Very few new boats sold in CA have a macerator. Since we do most of our boating on inland waterways (rivers, delta and SF bay), it would a violation of Federal regulations to discharge untreated sewage overboard. Being a licensed Capt'n, you know it's illegal unless you're outside of 3 miles from shore). Locally we even have at least one body of water where treated sewage is not allowed to go overboard.

FWIW the "macerator" option on several well-known brands of boat is nothing more than a bellows-style discharge pump i.e. it doesn't  macerate. I had the "macerator" option on my prior boat and the only difference between the specified "macerator" and the VacuFlush head pump was that the latter has two pairs of duckbill valves v one. In my case, the boat manufacturer had decided to inventory only one pump, so the "macerator" was identical to a VacuFlush head pump.

Similar story with our current boat, except it wasn't ordered with that option. I installed it later for the rare occasion we might need it while offshore. What I installed was the same one specified by the boat manufacturer, and it was a discharge pump, not a macerator.

Bob Zambenini said:

he has the one with water action only and not electrical as he likes to show that this is all you need.

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LOL Bob. I've talked to several folks who think the same way, but I've wondered how much fresh water (and time) it really takes to empty a full holding tank.

Tom said:

Leo, I use 35 feet of 5/8" hose (smaller than the 3/4" recommended to prevent overheating) and have been very pleased and surprised with the results. I usually feel the pump waiting for it to get too hot, but haven't felt any undue heat. I don't have any elevation except up over the curb; From the street to my sewer cleanout is a slight downgrade.

I must admit that I was sceptical of this device and was prepared to return it to CW, used or not. But I decided it's a keeper.

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One more question - reading here I may have used it wrong. Does it require water on the backflush while operating ? I assumed it was only for after the pumping was complete in order to clean out the piping, etc.

Tom

Are you saying that if you use a 1" hose, the macerator will get hot if you ?pump uphill and it will not get hot if you use a 5/8" hose under the same conditions? I went to a lot of trouble converting the pump to 1" and obtaining 125' of flat hose. I did not need or use it on the older MH and I will have to reconfigure it for the newer MH.

Wayne/FL

Tom said:

Leo, I use 35 feet of 5/8" hose (smaller than the 3/4" recommended to prevent overheating) and have been very pleased and surprised with the results. I usually feel the pump waiting for it to get too hot, but haven't felt any undue heat. I don't have any elevation except up over the curb; From the street to my sewer cleanout is a slight downgrade.

I must admit that I was sceptical of this device and was prepared to return it to CW, used or not. But I decided it's a keeper.

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Tom:

These Sani-con does not require a water supply other than the fluids from the black and gray tanks.  However you have to stand by because as soon as the sound of the pump changes, indicating an empty tank, you have to shut the pump off to prevent the pump from burning out.  Maybe the CW version protects against that?

I believe any handy person could cobble together what Sani-con has using a Jabsco macerator.  However I still prefer the Sani-con to a homebrew because he has so carefully engineered and matched everything.  From the fitting that goes into the sewer, to the accordion small diameter hose, to the exact length and hinge of the pump itself to fit inside most motorhome utility bays.

Thenosyone:

It seems to take about the same time which is about 5 minutes or so for a 65 gallon tank.? I think the fluid moves faster in the macerator, but the larger diameter of the gravity system compensates for that.? The big advantage, imo, is the fact that you don?t have to worry about gravity.? Nothing get caught in dips and valleys, it can go uphill, long distance, etc.? Probably not worth it for weekenders and vacationers, unless they regular camp somewhere with a long or uphill sewage run.? Worth every penny, IMO for fulltimers.? You can even empty straight into a toilet on a fairground, or a sceptic system if you use only bacterial treatment

Also a big advantage for those who are squeamish about sewage.? The macerator is much easier and less messy to manage.? And if we ever decide to throw away our regular 20 foot sewage hose, we will gain space.

It should handle 100 gallons just fine Liz.? Should handle thousands of gallons, just takes longer.

Terry, we are blessed with a factory flush system, so I think that takes care of the problem.? When I am done with the black tank, I run the flush system for 3 or 4 mins.? Then I run the gray water.? But your idea would be a good one for those without a built in flush system.? Also as far as I can detect, the Sani-con moves water as fast or perhaps a tad faster than the 3 inch hose.? You sure don?t want to lift the end out of the sewer or it will shoot out for 6 or 8 feet.? Like a high pressure garden hose.? Do you have the CW version or the Sani-con?? Also this is a newly designed Sani-con.? They keep updating their system.

Caltex, that is a very interesting thing about Tom?s boat.? Must be a regional thing then as pumping is still allowed in the Chesapeake but you have to be three miles offshore.? In the Chessie, most boats have both capabilities, pump out or maceration.? One rarely sees a new boat without a macerator.? They are trying to increase the number of the pump out stations in the Bay Area, so likely we will catch up to California in a few years and start getting California boats LOL!

After reading Tom?s comments I am now convinced maceration in boating is a regional thing.? I first ran into this when I took my boat up the coast to Canada.? The last leg of my trip was entering the Hudson at NYC and then traversing the canals and Champlain locks.? Once I entered Lake Champlain, the Vermont Marine Police required the macerator to be unwired and the outlet to be plugged.? I could not undo this until I returned to the Hudson.? I apologize for so regional on my boating observation.? I will become less regional in the coming months.? Incidentally folks, we leave Maryland for good on August 4th.

Wayne:? I think Tom was saying he uses a standard 5/8? hose instead of the ??.? A full 1 inch certainly will not overheat, though the fittings must be hell to find.

blueblood said:

Does it require water on the backflush while operating ?

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Heck, now I can't remember Leo. When I wrote my prior comment I was thinkiing the fresh water was on while using it, but maybe it was for flushing afterwards. (I've only used it a couple of times, and it's been a few months).

Smoky said:

you have to stand by because as soon as the sound of the pump changes, indicating an empty tank

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Now that I think about it, that's true for the CW version.

I still prefer the Sani-con to a homebrew because he has so carefully engineered and matched everything.

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Sure looks that way.

Ned said:

Tom,

The web site for the Sani-Con is http://www.emptythetanks.com/.? Lots of information there about the different models.? Although one can buy a lot of sewer hoses for the $550 price, it does make up in convenience.

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The web site pricing is manufacuteres list - not selling price. Monaco asked that they list it that way for obvious reasons ;D. The actual selling price if you call Sani-Con will be $399.95 or close to it.

Leo

judway said:

Are you saying that if you use a 1" hose, the macerator will get hot if you  pump uphill and it will not get hot if you use a 5/8" hose under the same conditions?

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No Wayne, apologies if I confused you. I happened to have a 5/8" hose laying around that was unusable as a regular hose because one end was damaged. I cut that end off and actually shortened the 50' hose to 35' and tried it. I was consciously watching/feeling the temperature of the pump because IIRC the instructions said it would get hot if used with a hose smaller than 3/4".

blueblood said:

Does it require water on the backflush while operating ?

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Leo, I just found the instructions for my FloJet macerator. You're right - the fresh water connection is only used for flushing. I guess I had a brain fart. Apologies for confusion.

Tom said:

No Wayne, apologies if I confused you. I happened to have a 5/8" hose laying around that was unusable as a regular hose because one end was damaged. I cut that end off and actually shortened the 50' hose to 35' and tried it. I was consciously watching/feeling the temperature of the pump because IIRC the instructions said it would get hot if used with a hose smaller than 3/4".

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Tom

Ok, then my 1" hose should allow the macerater to run cooler than a 5/8" or 3/4" hose. I have five 25' rolls of 1" blue flat hose that I purchased from Tractor Supply. I have a 100' roll of 1 1/2" flat hose also.

Thanks

Wayne/FL

judway said:

Tom

Ok, then my 1" hose should allow the macerater to run cooler than a 5/8" or 3/4" hose. I have five 25' rolls of 1" blue flat hose that I purchased from Tractor Supply. I have a 100' roll of 1 1/2" flat hose also.

Thanks

Wayne/FL

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A point made to me by the owner of Sani-con is that one should check the female fitting on end of hose. If it is less than 3/4 inch then overheatiing can occur. The pump is a constant volume and thus any restriction will put back pressure on pump resultiing in heating. He says a number of 3/4 inch hoses have 1/2 or less in the female end.

Blueblood, you are right about Sanicon's pricing.  He advertises a higher price than he actually sells for.  I got the full unit for the price you mentioned.  I think it pays to call them up rather than just order off the web.  He comes down in price without any discussion at all.

Wayne,

Re: flat hoses. You may want to check out this article on hoses. IMHO a flat hose would not be a good choice for a macerator application.

http://lawn-and-garden.hardwarestore.com/learning/all-about-garden-hose.aspx

Here is the section about flat hoses. I would be particularly concerned with the sentences mentioning "completely extended" and "round out". May or may not be problems, but thought it worth a look. 

Flat Garden Hose
Flat Hose lies flat until water pressure rounds it into 5/8" hose. A prime feature is that flat hose stores more easily and more compactly than conventional hose.

Flat hose must be completely extended before water will pass through it and it must be completely drained before storing.

There are two types of flat hose. One is made of a polyurethane liner and a tightly woven polyester jacket. The higher quality product has the liner bonded to the jacket to reduce kinking and leaking.

The other type is similar to conventional, reinforced vinyl hose, yet is flat when empty and expands when water is added. It is not as small as the first type but has excellent wear resistance and is half the size of conventional hose.

Once rounded, flat hose performs exactly like ordinary hose, delivering the same amount of water as a regular 5/8" hose. Weight is about one-third that of conventional hose; but because it is self-draining (provided the nozzle or sprinkler end is left open), it retains less water than ordinary hose (which may hold as much as 6 lbs. of water in each 50' length).

It requires 20 psi to round out (home water pressure is 40-60 psi) and is able to withstand normal treatment. Because it drains itself, it is less susceptible to freezing and cracking.

Flat hose will return to flat shape after repeated uses, will not wear on edges, will not crack around fittings and has comparable burst strength to conventional hose.

Some flat hose is packed in a cassette that holds the hose, allows it to be pulled out for use and retracts for storage. The cassette can be hooked to the water source for use and hung in garage or basement for storage. A hose cassette is ordinarily used only for handling and storage. If the hose remains in the cassette during use, the pressure of the expanding hose could damage it.

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There are two models of the Sani-com system with a $100 price difference - the original model 2104 version and the newer 5800 version. The main difference is in the hoses. Then there is the "Tank Buddy" portable system which is yet another $150 cheaper and perfect for those occasions when graveity-dump isn't practical.

RVUpgrades.com (www.rvupgrades.com) sells the Sanicom system at a nice discount - $499 for the #5800 and $399 for the #2104. For some reason RVUpgrade.com does not discount the $249 Tank Buddy.  And RV Sanicon attends many Rv shows and usually sells at the $499/$399 discount prices there.

A $249 Tank Buddy and an extra 25-50 feet of one inch hose is a nice accessory for anyone who dry camps. Doesn't take much room to store either.

Karl

The hose that I have is the smallest of the agriculture hoses and comes in an 8" diameter by 2" roll. No question that it would have to be fully extended to work. Once it is in use I don't think rounding out will be a problem. A friend has one of the fresh water flat hoses from CW and it works quite well, but has the problems mentioned in the article. I have a cheap Wal-Mart regular hose and it kinks badly at times.? I haven't tried the flat hose on the macerater yet because I haven't had a need. The newer MH requires a new power cable and rearrangement of the parts. It has a very low priority at the present lime. I still think it is the way to go until proven differently.

Thanks for the article.

Wayne/FL

Karl said:

Wayne,

Re: flat hoses. You may want to check out this article on hoses. IMHO a flat hose would not be a good choice for a macerator application.

http://lawn-and-garden.hardwarestore.com/learning/all-about-garden-hose.aspx

Here is the section about flat hoses. I would be particularly concerned with the sentences mentioning "completely extended" and "round out". May or may not be problems, but thought it worth a look.?

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One of the things I purchased on the day I picked up my DAMON was a "Sewage Pump" (Macerator pump) which is very much like you describe... I've used it... I did not know when I bought it it was 12vdc so did not have wireing installed for it.  However I did have a "Jump Start" battery (Commericial grade jump box, in fact It was not mine, I'd bought it true, but I was trying to make contact with it's owner, a Tow Truck Driver named Pete, so I could deliver it... It was, however, fully charged)

Hooked it up, Turned it on and away went the sewage.

Then the gray water

Then the other gray water

And now it's back in it's carry case


Oh, one other thing... My Damon is a "Bath and a half" type floor plan, The master bath is unaccessable when you are on the road (Slides in) as it's behind the bedroom and with the slides in you have to climb OVER the bed

(The "Half" is about "amidships" (right before the back axel))

The master toilet is a macerator... IT flushes to the front blackwater tank via a 12vdc pump  All automatic,  Push button, it flushes

As for power... Being WA8YXM I have a RIG RUNNER next to the driver's seat... It's a power strip, uses Andeson Power Poles

I have a 50 foot coil of heavy duty wire

The Power strip is just inside of a window that opens

I don't think I'll have a problem next time I need the pump

I have a 50 foot "Black water" hose (Ok, the hose really is a water hose, and it's really black)  The other water hoses are either green or white (potable hoses) but the "Black Water" hose, .... Is Black  Had to search some to find a black hose

Worked very well