F53 Brake/wheel overheating - AGAIN

This seems to be my week for problems.

Without all the gory details, I have had problems previously with the front brakes dragging and overheating.  In 2006 I replaced all calipers, pads and brake fluid.  I had no further problems in a 15k mile trip.  In 2007 (in the final one hundred miles of a 2k mile trip) the left front wheel got hot enough to smoke.

I again replaced the caliper and pads in case the heat destroyed the piston seals and I lubed the slide pins.  I inspected and re-packed the wheel bearings also.  Everything looked okay except I have always thought it took more than the (manual suggested) TAP with the hammer to drive the pins back in.

Yesterday I had to make two 15 mile trips with a three hour break between trips.

At the end of the first trip I measured the temps of all my wheels with my infrared thermometer and all positions read about 115 to 130F.  No problem.........

At the end of my second trip I again measured temps and the left front (again) was about 310+ and wisps of smoke for a few moments.

I'm stumped.  I've searched old forum threads (here and other forums) on this subject and beyond the old familiar" slide pin lube" problem, not much help was found. 

I did find reference to possible master cylinder and/or hydro boost problems.  My dilemma is; Why only one wheel?

I am going to replace the flex hoses to the front wheels today and re-test.

I know Ford has redesigned (improved ?) some things in the brake area so this is probably not a current problem.  I'm just hoping someone recalls a fix from the past.  Thanks for all help and ideas.

Lou, I think you may have hit on the solution. I haven't had that problem after overhauling all the calipers and replacing one caliper. But, I have been told that older flexible brake lines can and will sometimes collapse internally. They will look good on the out side, but will collapse inside. This restricts the flow back out of the pistons and cause drag.

Hope this helps, Jerry

I've heard of that problem with the hoses.

That is a common problem with the hose, aslo people damage the hose because they use pliers to clamp the hose when doing the breaks.also check the metal line from that wheel to the master for pinch or damage.also when you put the caliper on make sure the flex brake hose is straight and it hasnt been twisted.Ive seen  even mechanics take the caliper off and when they put it back on the caliper was spin 360 so the hose has a slight twist to it.As far as the master and booster it would affect 2 wheels at a time if there was a problem there.when you replace the hose and bleed the system check the the brake fluid is coming out easily.you should also have the rotors remachined or replaced because there probably warped from the heat

I agree with the others may have a bad hose , you may want too also check futher upstream there should be a proportioning valve on the lines clos too the master cylinder that may be causeing some of your problems Good Luck !

Everything looked okay except I have always thought it took more than the (manual suggested) TAP with the hammer to drive the pins back in.

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Given what you just said, I'd be inclined to suspect the caliper mounting face and/or slide is not perfectly square. The pin(s) should be a snug fit, but certainly not so tight as to require beating them in with a hammer. That could damage the threads on the end resulting in cross-threading them. 'Twer me, I'd remove the caliper and check the axle and rotor for squareness and run-out first (you may have a slightly bent spindle), then make sure the mounting surface is square with the spindle, then inspect the internal threads and pin threads for damage. Could also be an incorrectly installed wheel bearing or out-of-spec bearing hub (bearing doesn't sit perfectly square in the hub). I know; lots of things to check, but intermittent problems like yours are the hardest to figure out. Good luck

I haven't gotten the hoses replaced yet because NAPA doesn't know an F53 from a 4/550 Super Duty.  They keep giving me the wrong hoses.  I finally got to talk to Ford and they agree that the hoses are unique to the F53.  It is true that many parts are common to, and sold as, Super Duty parts.  I have the correct hoses on order from an on-line source.

Master-Tech, The Ford system doesn't use an external proportioning valve.  The front and rear brakes are fed through separate lines from the master cylinder and they are simply T'd to each wheel.  Actually the valve is integral to the master cylinder.

Karl,  The caliper slide pins on the '97 are of the old style (two opposing curved metal strips with a rubber core).  They don't thread.  They are designed to be "tapped" into a groove formed by the mating surface of the caliper and the spindle housing.  The slides have ears/tabs on each end that contact the caliper mount to hold the pin in place.  The caliper is supposedly free to slide on the pin.  I have replaced many slide pins on my old delivery vans, but didn't remember them being a snug as these.  There may be some warp, but I sure can't feel or see it when I mate the two parts together.

I had those pins on a Bronco I had some time ago. They were a bent piece of steel with rubber in it. On one side it was very hard to get in, even with everything well cleaned. I replaced all of them and all was OK then. Apparently the rubber had swollen.

Dick, I have used new slide pins each time I replace the calipers.  I have not removed or replaced them since the latest episode on Tuesday of this week.  I will remove and inspect everything today.

I will say that each time I have removed used pins that they appear more compressed (though often a little misshaped - skewed) than swollen.

I disassembled and reassembled the left front wheel and brake assembly today.  To put it in the Olympic vernacular, I scored 5 points for technique and 3 for speed.  Still no medal

With the caliper removed, the wheel hub turns freely and feels as though the the bearings are properly adjusted.  I just packed and adjusted them last month.  With the caliper mounted and the pads barely contacting the rotor surface the touching (drag) sound seems to be constant throughout a 360 degree rotation.  From this, I deduced (I hate to say assumed) there was no rotor warp.  Fluid seemed to flow freely when I bled the piston.  Of course I have no way to check reverse flow.

I did notice that a thin metal clip attached to the inside pad (anti chatter/squeal clip?) was not positioned correctly.  Something I caused during the previous installation.  It could possibly have caused the pad to not seat on the rotor completely.  I think I detected a small amount of uneven wear (mostly just polished surface) from top to bottom on that pad.  This may or may not be significant.  Time will tell.

I still intend to replace the hoses when they arrive. 

I have the same problem with a GM chassis. (a 1990 Coachman Catalina 31 ft.) The left front brake was binding and overheating so I replaced the caliper. But, next time out, same problem. I guess I'll try the hose next.

When you do replace the hose, you can try blowing though the old one with you mouth (of course after wiping it off) to see it there is any obstructions.  I had a similar problem in one of my old cars where the caliper would stick and the rubber line was the culprit.

Well, I got the hose changed Wednesday and took off Friday for a camping trip. (Only 70 miles away.) And, the brakes worked GREAT! Thanks, for the advice guys!

Glad you got the anomally fixed.  Thanks for the feedback.

Lou---- If you are still reading this thread--have new info on another subj----tranny temps/sensor locations. Left Ft Collins CO last Friday, now at Hollister CA--Fresno tomorrow. Interesting! [email protected]
Tweedy

Glad I found this! I am in the process of changing all the brakes and calipers on my 97 Allegro F53 and since reading this I think I'll go ahead and change the rubber hoses! Man I love these forums

I agree with you on replacing rubber hoses.  I had a pinhole leak in a rad hose.  My cousin is a good back yard mechanic and wasn't very busy so I got him to replace all the hoses.

Then, about a year later, I was having the alternator replaced and saw another frigging 6" hose running between two ports on the block.  Needless to say I bought that hose and threw it in the trunk in case that hose ever blew.  I had it replaced sometime later.

Great you got ur Brakes fixed,  but really guys on any type coach anything Rubber Needs to be Replced Regularly if your gona Depend on it , Simply the Rubber Breaks-Down or Deteriorates through Time, Especially Hoses and Tires! I get Questioned often- tha tires Look Brand New still have thatits on em ,  Yeah they came on tha Coach only got 15,000 miles on it butits a 88 Modle !!!

Our 2010 Newmar 3920 had the pass front caliper stick last week and before I could get to a safe place and park it. Smoke was already in the cabin of the RV and when I looked under the front smoke was billowing off the caliper.  There was more heat than Ihave ever seen coming off a rim and get this.  7,900 miles on the RV and Ford replaced the stuck defective caliper BUT, refuses to replace the brake pads.  Literally smoking hot, burning, glazed and they refuse because they think it could be "prior damage".  My first expereince with Ford's RV warranty program and what a joke.  Basic physics and knowledge proves if you overheat the pads, rotor and caliper to the point it fills the cabin with smoke the pads won't be any good.  I've been told I can pay for the new pads myself and send in a letter giving the reasons why I am asking for a review board to look into reimbursing me for the pads.    Any suggestions???   

If you do have them replace the pads, ask them to give you the old pads (as removed).  If they got as hot as you say (much hotter than mine evidently) you will be able to flake the pad material off with your fingers.

Include a sample with your letter.  They are being totally ridiculous.