GAS OR DIESEL?

nanc said:

Thanks for the great info Rocky.  I'm passing it on to my husband, I'm sure he'll understand it lots more than I do. I get the drift though and really appreciate it.

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Do be sure to buy your truck based on the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of the trailer you would buy.  Find that GVWR number on the DOT plate of the traliers left side wall at the front.  It is the unladen weight plus the maximum cargo capacity.  Allow a 10% safety factor in the tow rating of the truck.

If the number points to a 550 or even a medium duty truck like a Peterbuilt with a tow bed, so be it.  If that is too rich for your pocketbook go for a smaller trailer.  Remember you are looking at the biggest towables made.

Go for the diesel, you'll be glad you did. You'll get better mileage and diesel prices will eventually go back down below gasoline. They're just artificially inflated right now because of the switchover to ultra low sulfur fuel.  (Or maybe I should have said gasoline prices will eventually go back up above diesel prices) 

and diesel prices will eventually go back down below gasoline.

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I wish I could share your optimism, but in my opinion is ain't gonna happen. There is no inherent reason for diesel to be less than gas. A barrel of crude produces more gas than diesel (though changes in refining practices could alter  the proportions somewhat) and the demand for diesel is growing even faster than the demand for gas, both in the USA and worldwide.  Diesel used to be cheap when the supply exceeded demand, but that has not been the case for a number of years now. And there will always be more political pressure to hold gas prices down because gas prices have a more visible impact on voters. Forget that diesel fuel prices have a much broader effect on all prices, especially food, because that is a hidden cost. No, I'm afraid the days of cheap diesel are forever gone. 

Hate to say but I think Gary is 100% correct. 

I disagree, the reason diesel prices rose so dramatically in the last few years is because of the switchover to ultra low sulfur diesel. It was a major investment for oil companies to enable their refineries to produce the new fuel. The investment was so large that instead of upgrading all of their refineries they choose to only upgrade some of them. (The one I worked in was upgraded and it was the largest project undertaken in the 37 years I worked there) The plan was to produce all of their diesel fuel in the refineries that had been upgraded and produce heating oil in the ones that weren't converted. This creates a delicate balance between the two products that never existed before causing supply and demand problems and higher prices. The good news is that there are more refineries being converted and this problem should go away.     

bross said:

I disagree, the reason diesel prices rose so dramatically in the last few years is because of the switchover to ultra low sulfur diesel. It was a major investment for oil companies to enable their refineries to produce the new fuel. The investment was so large that instead of upgrading all of their refineries they choose to only upgrade some of them. (The one I worked in was upgraded and it was the largest project undertaken in the 37 years I worked there) The plan was to produce all of their diesel fuel in the refineries that had been upgraded and produce heating oil in the ones that weren't converted. This creates a delicate balance between the two products that never existed before causing supply and demand problems and higher prices. The good news is that there are more refineries being converted and this problem should go away.     

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I agree for the most part, but Gary is also correct that currently gasoline gets preferential treatment in refining strategy, with 1/2 of a barrel of oil going to gasoline, the other half being split between diesel and heating oil.  Also, producing Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel has more wear and tear on refinery equipment, putting refineries in turn-around more often; thus increasing production costs.  The good news is that all transportation fuels will be ultra low at some point, reducing the number of "flavors" needed to be produced to be a fully integrated refiner.

Overall, we are at the beginning of an energy crossroads, with the horizon looking a little too murky to predict which path the market will ultimately go down.  If T Boone Pickens gets his way, well be talking about what type of hydrogen powered vehicle we'll be using for our RV'ing adventures 

Since I've drifted off topic, I'll vote for the diesel option for the OP.

Think of diesel fuel as product that can be refined into gasoline because that's basically what it is. Before low sulfur diesel requirements, a refinery could make more diesel by just not refining it into gasoline, so the price of diesel could never be higher than the price of gasoline. But, with the new clean fuels regulations refineries are required to remove sulfur from diesel fuel, and to do that they have to run it through a DSU unit (De-sulfuriziation Unit). So now diesel fuel output is limited by their DSU throughput and and not by economics. This has caused the spike in diesel fuel prices but more capacity is being added and things should get back to normal, whatever that is. 

bross said:

Think of diesel fuel as product that can be refined into gasoline because that's basically what it is. Before low sulfur diesel requirements, a refinery could make more diesel by just not refining it into gasoline, so the price of diesel could never be higher than the price of gasoline. But, with the new clean fuels regulations refineries are required to remove sulfur from diesel fuel, and to do that they have to run it through a DSU unit (De-sulfuriziation Unit). So now diesel fuel output is limited by their DSU throughput and and not by economics. This has caused the spike in diesel fuel prices but more capacity is being added and things should get back to normal, whatever that is. 

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You can thank your local Greener for this debacle.

dhamblet said:

You can thank your local Greener for this debacle.

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We can also be thankful for less of a brown cloud overhead and cleaner skies.

BernieD said:

We can also be thankful for less of a brown cloud overhead and cleaner skies.

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Theres a heckofalot of road in this country that NEVER had and never will have a pollution problem.. Maybe it made sense in the urban areas but does it make sense out on the road.  Long haul truckers spend minimal time in the urban areas but still are forced to buy this expensive cr** as am I when driving a thousand miles thru remote parts of the country.  Meddling government dogooders driving up the price of everything.

While it may be true that long haul truckers spend relatively little time in urban areas, it's also true that their emissions while on the road get thrown into the mix just like those from every other hydrocarbon burning engine or power plant. Smog and other emissions are certainly greater in urban areas, but that's just because more of it is produced in a small area during a given period of time and it hasn't had a chance to mix with the cleaner air of the open country. To penalize some within a geographical area (require certain fuels, pass emission tests, etc.) is nothing more than a band-aid covering up a much larger problem.

Ease up, guys & gals. This discussion is rapidly straying away from RVing and towards politics.