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Author Topic: Mexico Violence Increases and Spreads to Tourist Areas  (Read 19901 times)

ArdraF

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Mexico Violence Increases and Spreads to Tourist Areas
« on: September 01, 2008, 03:53:00 PM »
The Saturday, Aug. 30, 2008 Las Vegas Review Journal had a headline that caught my eye: "Mexico's Drug Violence Spreads to Tourist Areas."  It began with this line, "The sickening discovery of 11 headless bodies, heaped like broken dolls near the colonial city of Merida, underscored a bitter lesson Friday for Mexico:  The battle to control the multibillion-dollar drug trade knows no boundaries."  It says the bodies are piling up nationwide.  Merida is near the Mayan ruins of Chichen Itza where many of us have traveled.  In a seven-day period ending Friday, more than 130 people died violently throughout the country.  The Yucatan actually had 12 of these after another decapitated body was found later.  On the same day the headless bodies were found in Merida, gunmen stormed a house in Guerrero and killed two women and two girls, 8 and 12.  On Wednesday in the state of Guanajuato, four gunmen and two soldiers died in an armed battle.  On Tuesday four decapitated bodies were found in Tijuana.  More were found in Sinaloa and Durango.  Earlier this month 13 people were killed at a family gathering in Creel where the Copper Canyon train travels.  Nationwide 71 police officers were killed during the month of August.

Folks, as much as we have enjoyed Mexico in the past, I don't believe it's wise to go there now.  If you do go to Mexico in spite of the increasing violence - in a country that forbids guns - please at least check the U.S. State Deparment travel warnings so you are aware of problem areas.  It's Aug. 8, 2008 page on Mexico says:

"Violence by criminal elements affects many parts of the country, urban and rural.  Visitors to the U.S.-Mexico border region, including cities such as Tijuana, Ciudad Juarez, Nuevo Laredo, Nogales, Matamoros, and Monterrey should remain alert and be aware of their surroundings at all times.  In its efforts to combat violence, the Government of Mexico has deployed military troops in various parts of the country.  Military checkpoints increased in border areas in early 2008.  U.S. citizens are advised to cooperate with official checkpoints when traveling on Mexican highways. Sporadic outbursts of politically motivated violence occur from time to time in certain areas of the country, particularly in the southern states of Chiapas, Guerrero and Oaxaca....

Chiapas: The Department of State recommends U.S. citizens traveling to the southern state of Chiapas remain cautious at all times.  Armed rebels and armed civilian groups are present in some areas of the state, and there is often no effective law enforcement or police protection.  Violent criminal gang activity along the state’s southern border – mostly aimed at illegal migrants – continues to be a concern.  U.S. citizens traveling to Chiapas are encouraged to contact the U.S. Embassy for further security information prior to traveling to the region."

ArdraF
« Last Edit: September 01, 2008, 03:55:15 PM by ArdraF »
ArdraF
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Luca1369

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Re: Mexico Violence Increases and Spreads to Tourist Areas
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2008, 04:08:29 PM »
This is sad news indeed.  I've spent a lot of time over the last few years from Chiapas to Matamoros, and I hate to see things getting worse.  However, one good thing is that the violence has not been directed at turistas...yet...

Steve
Steve
1990 Fleetwood Southwind 36'
http://seaworthy.com

For my part, I travel not to go anywhere, but to go.
I travel for travel's sake. The great affair is to move.
Robert Louis Stevenson

A good traveller has no fixed plans and is not intent on arriving.
Lao Tsu (570-490 BC)

ArdraF

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Re: Mexico Violence Increases and Spreads to Tourist Areas
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2008, 05:21:53 PM »
Steve,

Actually, it has.  Some Americans on beaches south of Tijuana have been killed.  Sad....

ArdraF
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scottydl

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Re: Mexico Violence Increases and Spreads to Tourist Areas
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2008, 07:05:46 PM »
I'd like to think that if they start losing millions of dollars in tourist dollars, the government might think it wise to crack down on the illegal activities that are chasing people away.  However the drug trade will always provide more money than that to corrupt officials, and sadly I think the number of those persons are quite high nowadays.  Kidnapping and related insurance fraud there are somewhat rampant in Mexico as well.  The Denzel Washington movie "Man on Fire" jumps to mind for anyone that's seen it.
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Ron

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Re: Mexico Violence Increases and Spreads to Tourist Areas
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2008, 08:03:09 PM »
I suspect that the Mexican authorities have managed to keep some of the violence out of the news up till now.  While it is likely on the increase IMHO it has always been some risk to folks going down there.
Ron & Sam-home is where we park it. Currently located   HERE

RLSharp

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Re: Mexico Violence Increases and Spreads to Tourist Areas
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2008, 10:36:20 PM »
If you want to read some startling statistics about the violence in Mexico, check out the link I have posted below. My cousin lives just north of San Diego and sends me his summary about once a week. Following is his latest message. I was not able to get the graph which he sent on 8/28 to copy into this message.
*******************
From the M3 report for 8/28

News of Tijuana, Tecate, Rosarito and Ensenada and Chula Vista

·         One hundred twenty-nine police officers in Baja California were just dismissed because of various crimes, links with organized crime groups and other such reasons. 65 were police in Tijuana, 25 in Tecate, Rosarito and Ensenada, and 5 with the state police; 17 were “ministerial” police and another 17 were agents in the state AG’s office.

·         In Tecate, Baja Calif., state police found two vehicles parked illegally; the driver of one turned out to be a Tecate P.D. officer, but the vehicle also had a loaded .45 cal. submachine gun, a rifle and marihuana. Both vehicles had been stolen, one of them from Chula Vista, CA.

Makes one wonder where these 129 police officers will work next.

Note that the graph below shows about 300 killed in two weeks, and these statistics are incomplete.

Gary
*******************
M3 Report

Richard
Richard & Linda
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Luca1369

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Re: Mexico Violence Increases and Spreads to Tourist Areas
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2008, 07:04:19 AM »
In a "sort-of" related story, here is a link to a video on Yahoo.com.  An American tourist was beaten to death by Mexican police after an altercation with a local in Cabo San Lucas.

Steve

Steve
1990 Fleetwood Southwind 36'
http://seaworthy.com

For my part, I travel not to go anywhere, but to go.
I travel for travel's sake. The great affair is to move.
Robert Louis Stevenson

A good traveller has no fixed plans and is not intent on arriving.
Lao Tsu (570-490 BC)

Jeff

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Re: Mexico Violence Increases and Spreads to Tourist Areas
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2008, 10:51:09 AM »
I gues we will postpone our return to Mexico.

Too bad, we had a great time.

boaterkathy

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Re: Mexico Violence Increases and Spreads to Tourist Areas
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2008, 09:56:31 AM »
This makes me sad.  We were in Puerto Vallarta a few years ago and had so much fun.

We were planning on going over the border in Jan. when we head to Texas.  We have some friends who take their RV close to the Texas/Mexico border and drive their car to Mexico at least a couple times to shop(I think it is Matamoros).  We figured we would go over with them a couple times, but we will definitely rethink that NOW!  Pretty scary!
Kathy and Tim and Maggie(Our YorkiePoo)
Northeast Iowa
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leethehund

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Re: Mexico Violence Increases and Spreads to Tourist Areas
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2008, 01:48:09 PM »
Before you start believing all the anti-mexican propaganda perpertrated by the San Diego papers and others, whose purpose is to keep tourist dollars north of the border, I would suggest you get the REAL picture here:
 
 http://www.bajainsider.com/driving-baja/baja-road-report.htm

I have no economic intrest in anything that has to do with this subject. I just hate to see people give in to what I consider irrational fear, miss a great adventure and the opportunity to meet wonderful people!! We'll be leaving for our umpteenth trip to Mexico somtime this winter.
Lee
Lee and Carole
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RLSharp

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Re: Mexico Violence Increases and Spreads to Tourist Areas
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2008, 02:14:26 PM »
Before you start believing all the anti-mexican propaganda perpertrated by the San Diego papers and others, whose purpose is to keep tourist dollars north of the border, I would suggest you get the REAL picture here:
 
 http://www.bajainsider.com/driving-baja/baja-road-report.htm

Lee,

Do you think that the NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF FORMER BORDER PATROL OFFICERS website at http://www.nafbpo.org is anti-mexican propaganda? They update their site five days a week and it appears that it is rare that they do not report violence every day at some place in Mexico. Most of their references are from actual Mexican newspaper reports and the violence on some days is horrific. BTW, the Baja does not seem to have the same amount of violence as the mainland.

It appears that the Mexican government is losing control of the country, especially the enforcement of narcotics laws. JMHO

<<I just hate to see people give in to what I consider irrational fear.>> I am not trying to promote irrational fear--just be aware that Mexico is not like it was in 1995 and 1996 when we spent a month there. We will not be going back until things improve significantly, which probably will not happen in the time we have left for RVing.  :(

Richard
Richard & Linda
Rochester, NY (summer)
Tucson, AZ (winter)

RLSharp

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Re: Mexico Violence Increases and Spreads to Tourist Areas
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2008, 03:42:33 PM »
My third attempt to post a graph which my cousin, from the evil San Diego area  :), sent me. so far, I don't seem to be able to get the graph into my message. Since it does not show up in the preview, I don't know whether it is actually attached.

Richard
« Last Edit: September 07, 2008, 05:41:05 AM by Tom »
Richard & Linda
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ArdraF

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Re: Mexico Violence Increases and Spreads to Tourist Areas
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2008, 04:05:49 PM »
Richard, I see two graphs and they look alike.

ArdraF
ArdraF
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leethehund

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Re: Mexico Violence Increases and Spreads to Tourist Areas
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2008, 06:37:09 PM »
Richard,

I won't comment on whether NAFBPO is anti-mexican or not. People can look at the site and draw their own conclusions.

My point is that although there is violence in Mexico, that it has been blown way out of proportion.

Did you know that we are considered the most violent people in the world by the rest of the world? I have seen this for myself in Europe. If there was a site that reported every violent crime in this country like NAFBPO does for Mexico, you'd be afraid to go out of your house after reading it.

In 2006, the last year that complete statistics are available, CA had 2485 murders! And that's only one state!

So far this year, as of last week, there have been 204 murders in LA and 95 in Oakland!

It is currently dangerous to go out to dinner in the SF East bay because, for the last few months, there have been invasion style robberies of restaurants there on a regular basis. The business and the patrons all get robbed!! In one case a person was murdered!

Let's all hope that Mexico can get it's act together and zap the drug smugglers. Of course, if people in this country would stop using illegal drugs, their market would dry up and that would end the whole thing. (I know, I'm dreaming!)

BTW, there have been demonstrations in Mexico recently demanding the the government DO something about the violence!

Lee
Lee and Carole
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Ron

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Re: Mexico Violence Increases and Spreads to Tourist Areas
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2008, 07:07:59 PM »
Actually the violence in Mexico has been pretty much covered up in the past and the only thing that has happened is the coverup is not a good as it use to be.
Ron & Sam-home is where we park it. Currently located   HERE

RLSharp

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Re: Mexico Violence Increases and Spreads to Tourist Areas
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2008, 08:14:05 PM »
Richard, I see two graphs and they look alike.

Ardra,

You are right. Unfortunately, I couldn't see them in the Preview mode. One graph is in .jpg format and the other is in .png format (which was the original format).

The data is compiled by my cousin. He extracts it from the M3 Report at http://m3report.wordpress.com/ which I believe summarizes the information in the NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF FORMER BORDER PATROL OFFICERS website.

Richard

Richard & Linda
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Tucson, AZ (winter)

RLSharp

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Re: Mexico Violence Increases and Spreads to Tourist Areas
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2008, 10:31:48 PM »

My point is that although there is violence in Mexico, that it has been blown way out of proportion.

Let's all hope that Mexico can get it's act together and zap the drug smugglers. Of course, if people in this country would stop using illegal drugs, their market would dry up and that would end the whole thing. (I know, I'm dreaming!)

BTW, there have been demonstrations in Mexico recently demanding the the government DO something about the violence!

Lee,

I don't deny that the U.S. has a serious crime problem, mainly due to drugs, and our use of drugs keeps the narcos in Mexico in business. However, if you read my September 1, 2008 post above about the corruption in all forms of government, it appears that the people in Mexico can demand that the government DO something about the violence all they want. It's not going to happen if so much of the police/government is involved. (M3 Report 9/2) Have you ever heard of 129 law enforcement/state AG's being fired at one time in the United States because of links with organized crime? And this appears to be the tip of the iceberg according to M3 Reports. When is the last time that you heard of 11 or 12 people being tortured and then beheaded and piled up by narc gangs in the U.S.? (M3 Report for 8/28) I'd say the narc gangs are taking over Mexico, and I for one will not be going back. We also do not go into certain areas of our country. These are the choices we make, other may wish to take more chances than my wife and I do.

BTW, various European governments are now warning their citizens that when visiting Mexico they must protect themselves as much from the police as from the criminals because there are links between the police officers and criminal groups. (M3 Report 8/27)

M3 Report

Richard
Richard & Linda
Rochester, NY (summer)
Tucson, AZ (winter)

BeSafe

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Re: Mexico Violence Increases and Spreads to Tourist Areas
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2008, 07:58:12 AM »
Since my son Nolan's tragic death in Cancun, 19 months ago today, I have made it my priority to educate people about the many unknown dangers of traveling to Mexico. The Mexico Vacation Awareness Organization was formed for this purpose. Please visit:
WWW.MEXICOVACATIONAWARENESS.COM
[edit]Activated link[/edit]
« Last Edit: September 07, 2008, 05:43:51 PM by Tom »

Luca1369

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Re: Mexico Violence Increases and Spreads to Tourist Areas
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2008, 08:26:13 AM »
BeSafe,

First, I'd like to say that I understand your pain, I lost my son at an early age as well. 

Your website offers a new insight into travel to Mexico.  Although violence and drug cartels played no part in the loss of your son and the others mentioned on your site, it is certain that negligence by medical personnel (as well as the hotels to a degree) are to blame.  The stories paint a picture of medical incompetence that borders on crime itself. 

Hopefully, putting these events in the spotlight will affect the tourism industry to the point that some changes will be made...but I doubt it.

Steve
Steve
1990 Fleetwood Southwind 36'
http://seaworthy.com

For my part, I travel not to go anywhere, but to go.
I travel for travel's sake. The great affair is to move.
Robert Louis Stevenson

A good traveller has no fixed plans and is not intent on arriving.
Lao Tsu (570-490 BC)

ArdraF

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Re: Mexico Violence Increases and Spreads to Tourist Areas
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2008, 02:52:49 PM »
Richard, I'm only seeing one graph now so I guess it's repaired.

ArdraF
ArdraF
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RLSharp

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Re: Mexico Violence Increases and Spreads to Tourist Areas
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2008, 07:58:09 PM »
Richard, I'm only seeing one graph now so I guess it's repaired.

ArdraF

Looks like Tom fixed it for me. Thanks Tom.

Richard
Richard & Linda
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Tucson, AZ (winter)

Tom

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Re: Mexico Violence Increases and Spreads to Tourist Areas
« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2008, 12:26:17 AM »
Yes I did Richard, and you're welcome.
Tom.  Need help? Click the Help button in the toolbar above.

JerArdra

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Re: Mexico Violence Increases and Spreads to Tourist Areas
« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2008, 12:44:29 PM »
Leethelund,

Please stop defending Mexico by saying that the U.S. is just-as-bad or worse.

JerryF

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Pierat

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Re: Mexico Violence Increases and Spreads to Tourist Areas
« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2008, 02:02:17 PM »
Sunday's newspaper brings an AP article about the new reforms in the Mexican justice system: "Mexico has eight years to replace its closed proceedings with public trials in which defendants are presumed innocent, legal authorities can be held more accountalbe and justice is equal."

The reforms include pretrial detentions only for those who are flight risks or suspected of organized crime; giving defendants access to the information that the prosecution uses to make its case; the right to a trained lawyer and translator; trial within a year of arrest; and the requirement that "judges must ask defendants if officers read them their rights and must scrutinize evidence to determine its legality." (Arizona Daily Star, Sep. 2, 2008, p. A16.) Presumably, those things are not among the benefits of the Mexican legal system at this time (think about that!), and won't be for awhile to come at least.

I've heard more tourista horror stories than you want to know about. I'm not going there. The people absolutely can be wonderful and the scenery beautiful, but I'd like to keep my civil rights as they exist right here, thank you.
We Have Hung Up The Keys!
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ArdraF

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Re: Mexico Violence Increases and Spreads to Tourist Areas
« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2008, 04:17:44 PM »
Their legal system is changing from the Napoleanic "guilty until proven innocent" to the American "innocent until proven guilty."  Thankfully.  Apparently many of the young lawyers were educated here in the U.S. and want to get it restructured to something more similar to ours.  Truly hope they succeed.  They recently amended their constitution to implement the change but there's a huge educational factor in making the transition.

ArdraF
« Last Edit: September 08, 2008, 05:06:15 PM by ArdraF »
ArdraF
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Ron

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Re: Mexico Violence Increases and Spreads to Tourist Areas
« Reply #25 on: September 08, 2008, 04:44:05 PM »
One thing they really need to work on is clean up their police and government and stop the bribe required thing.
Ron & Sam-home is where we park it. Currently located   HERE

RLSharp

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Re: Mexico Violence Increases and Spreads to Tourist Areas
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2008, 09:20:58 AM »
From M3 Report

Reports of killings have resumed with 18 killed in the last three days. Graph updated accordingly.

Good news:

Police and government officials are being arrested all over Mexico.

·         In addition to the arrest of the Chief of Police in Cárdenas, Tabasco reported Friday, Mexican Federal agents of the organized crime unit (Seido) continued their operation against suspected corrupt  officials by arresting the director of the State Police of Tabasco, Jesús Arellano Flores. 

·         Last Thursday, the Regional Commissioner of Federal Police, Arturo Herrera Valles, was arrested on suspicion of having links with the Zetas Cartel. 

·         The police commander of Veracruz, Veracruz has confessed to his involvement in the kidnapping of a rancher rescued by state police yesterday. 

·         Sergio Humberto Ortiz Juárez, an ex-agent of a Mexico City Police investigative unit, has been arrested as the leader of the band of kidnappers known as “La Flor.” 

·         Mexican Army troops have taken control of police duties in Balancán, Tabasco.  The town is one of the 11 in the state of Tabasco where officials are believed to be on the payroll of the Gulf Cartel.

Bad news:

Another complaint has been filed about the conduct of Mexican Army personnel participating in Operation Culicán-Navolato. [M3, 9/3/08]  This time, a businesswoman returning from a five-day trip found her house in Culiacán, Sinaloa  surrounded by uniformed soldiers using vehicles with the identification numbers covered by tape.  Entering her home, she surprised soldiers rummaging through her bedroom and other areas of the house.  When she asked the soldiers for a search warrant, they could not produce one.  They then left and her inspection of the house not only revealed damage and disorder throughout, but also that they had stolen two computers, two televisions, new clothes, bottles of wine, a matched set of cooking utensils and even food supplies from the pantry.  Her neighbors said the soldiers broke in through the locked door and then destroyed the alarm system.

Richard
Richard & Linda
Rochester, NY (summer)
Tucson, AZ (winter)

Luca1369

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Re: Mexico Violence Increases and Spreads to Tourist Areas
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2008, 07:53:27 AM »
There's new action in the Mexican Drug Wars.  Gunmen killed the Police chief of Nogales, three Detectives in Guanajuato, 6 men in a warehouse in Tijuana, and another 3 men in a bullet-riddled SUV also in Tijuana.  Here is a link to the story.

Fortunately this does not involve tourists, it seems that the drug cartels are targeting their own as well as the Police.  Mexico has their hands full with this one.

Steve
Steve
1990 Fleetwood Southwind 36'
http://seaworthy.com

For my part, I travel not to go anywhere, but to go.
I travel for travel's sake. The great affair is to move.
Robert Louis Stevenson

A good traveller has no fixed plans and is not intent on arriving.
Lao Tsu (570-490 BC)

Ron

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Re: Mexico Violence Increases and Spreads to Tourist Areas
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2008, 09:26:35 AM »

Fortunately this does not involve tourists, it seems that the drug cartels are targeting their own as well as the Police.  Mexico has their hands full with this one.


But there I doubt they would even care if collateral damage occurred so anybody unfortunate enough to be in the area could end up dead too.
Ron & Sam-home is where we park it. Currently located   HERE

JerArdra

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Re: Mexico Violence Increases and Spreads to Tourist Areas
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2008, 12:37:56 PM »
The attached write up was in todays Las Vegas Review Journal (11/4/2008).

JerryF
JerryF  ;D  ;D

 

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