Re: Riding the rapids in a jet boat

Tom said:

That's a personal choice you make Jeff. After reading some of the responses to my earlier comments, I won't share my thoughts. If you're unsure, you could contact Transport Canada for their advice. Alternatively, you could ask the boat operator  ;D

Have a safe boat trip.

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I guess I am not concerned about earlier responses to Tom's comments beacuse after seeing the photos IMHO the best choice would be to avoid that operation all together.

Ron,

I'm sure Canada boating laws and safety training wouldn't allow an unsafe trip. After all, an accident would be bad for tourism.

I live in Saint John.  You would not get me to ride in that boat.  Not scared about marine safety.  Scared to be splashed with water.  A good portion of Saint John's sewage is dumped in the harbour untreated.  So the boat is riding in a big toilet.  The reversing action is akin of flushing.

Forty-eight percent of the city?s sewage simply flows untreated through one of the 55 raw sewage outfall pipes directly into the Saint John  Harbour, Marsh Creek, Dukhman?s Creek or the  St. John River.

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source: Waste not, want not - untreated sewage in Saint John Harbour

So, you'd not recommend someone open their mouth to scream and yell when they get wet? Similarly, if someone falls overboard,  they should hold their breath?

Probably depends on the tides.  With 30 feet tides, it gets flushed twice daily with millions of gallons of water.  It is a known fact with residents and the government that the harbour needs a major cleanup.  The city is trying to obtain funds from both the provincial and federal government.  I think the cost is estimated to be 40 million dollars if my memory is right.

But yeah, keep your mouth closed.

By the way, Saint John is not unique in this position.  Several old cities are still dumping part of their sewage untreated in lakes, rivers and oceans.

Marc, after several years of work our Harbour is now declared clean enough to swim in again, as of this August.

I saw that on the news earlier this summer.  That's good news for Halifax, one day, we might be able to say the same.

Tom said:

Ron,

I'm sure Canada boating laws and safety training wouldn't allow an unsafe trip. After all, an accident would be bad for tourism.

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Sorry but after viewing the photos and talking to my friend in Nova Scotia I just don't have much confidence that the Canadian authorities have made that sure the subject rrip is all that safe. 

I can assure you that all the standards and regulations in place are followed.  At least that is what officials would say after an incident occurs (sarcasm off).

I must say that I've lived here for as long as it's been in operations and I've never heard of a incident with the jetboat.  Plus, it's the only boat in the falls when it's there as it's always going when the current is moving quick, so no risk of collision with other boats.  All the other boats that go through the falls to go from the Bay of Fundy to the Saint River do it at slack tide in that 20 minute window where the water is flat and with no current in either direction.

But like any crash I suppose it just takes one time.  Over the last 15 years, we have had several more fatalities from canoe and kayak incidents than in a powerboats and none with the jetboat.  The only difference, a death from a jetboat would be more spectacular and would make bigger headlines.  Sad event nevertheless if it happened, but just because on how it happened, it would be big news.
 
I don't think the government should stop all activities that involve a bit of danger though. If they did, they would have to ban all vehicles on land, water or air, human-powered or motorized.  Heck, some people even die from an injury as a result of a fall while walking.  I know I am exaggerating a bit, but there needs to be a happy medium on what the government regulates and on what the people can think for themselves.  I know a lot of people find it too risky and will not go on and  I can respect that.

The owner and the passengers are aware of the risks and assume it.  Nobody is forced to get on.  It would be different if it was a form of public transportation like the ferry that sank in BC in 2006.

Like I mentioned earlier, I am more worried about e-coli than the boat flipping over.

56kz2slow said:

I live in Saint John.  You would not get me to ride in that boat.  Not scared about marine safety.  Scared to be splashed with water.  A good portion of Saint John's sewage is dumped in the harbour untreated.  So the boat is riding in a big toilet.  The reversing action is akin of flushing.
source: Waste not, want not - untreated sewage in Saint John Harbour

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Ok stop it you guys!  I already did the jet boat  ride.  I got wet.  Terry got a mouthfull of water.  I am not worried about the water I got in my ear as I survived a direct seagull hit to the ear a few months ago.  Terry on the other hand did swallow a bit of water.  So far he still seems pretty normal to me.

Thanks  for the infomation. I think.

For what its worth  every time a local here in Saint John asks if I have done the jet boat ride (as it is a big attraction here)  I tell  them of the  concerns from some on the safety of the ride.  I was told it was a specially created jet boat.  Two years ago when a hurricane  swept two swimmers out to sea, the fire department rescue boat flipped. The coast guard boat could not get close enough.  They called this jet boat operator who within minutes was able to rescue the  two men in distress out at sea. 0ff my soap box.

Betty
Betty

I understand that the operation is under review by Captain Ian Rennie, Manager, TCC Saint John, Marine Safety/S?curit? maritime, Transport Canada/Transports Canada. We'll hopefully have a professional opinion from someone who has no financial interest in the commercial venture and no emotional tie to the area.

Meanwhile, I won't be taking the ride irrespective of the outcome but, if someone insists on taking it, I'll suggest they keep their mouth closed the whole trip ;D

They called this jet boat operator who within minutes was able to rescue the  two men in distress out at sea.

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Kudos to him Betty, but we're not talking about a necessary rescue at sea; There is no reason, beyond possibly commercial gain, to unnecessarily put passengers at risk. This would be like Ron or Jeff taking folks up in an airplane for commercial gain and performing daredevil stunts in order to scare thrill the passengers.

FWIW one of our friends performed search and rescue missions for the US Coast Guard in his first career, but he's one of the most safety conscious recreational boaters I know. The son of another friend is currently a rescue swimmer in the US Coast Guard; He's the guy who jumps out of the helicopter into frigid, rough waters to save lives, but he's extremely safety conscious.

Betty:

Just add St John to your list of adventures along with Mexico and Alaska.

Stop the presses!

I sent a verbatim copy of Betty's "jet boat ride" report to Captain Rennie at Transport Canada. I explained that my concerns came from the fact that we live on the water, spend a lot of time afloat, and see/hear of many accidents. I also explained that I spend a lot of personal time attempting to educate boaters on safety issues and this, coupled with my role as Education & Technical Director for a local yacht club, contribute to my concerns for passenger safety. I also explained that I'd received a number of replies to my concerns, mostly saying my concerns were unfounded and that I was even an alarmist.

Captain Rennie promptly reviewed the situation, including talking to the operator, and sent me this reply:

Thank you for sending me the excerpt of the passengers commentary.
The commentary could lead a reader to believe that this 'trip' was non-refundable and puts passengers in danger with a careless operator. It's could also lead someone to believe it was wonderful. Your concern is not unnecessary nor alarmist, it's  a reaction to your interpretation of the commentary and is quite acceptable.

The ride is operated as a 'thrill ride'.  The vessels are inspected under Transport Canada's Small Passenger Vessel Inspection Regime and the operators are experienced in jet boat handling and have operated since 1995. The vessels are designed to shed water quickly and are not 'swamped' although there is a lot of water sprayed over the passengers. In the pre departure briefing passengers are made aware of what to expect- "they will get wet", the requirements to wear lifesaving equipment and the requirement to stay seated and hold on securely to the safety bars.  The passengers are seated on board  so that each row of seats are full. Like any thrill ride, there is less opportunity for movement. No one is required to take the 'trip', can easily obtain a refund should they not wish to participate and the removal of personal affects is to prevent loss.
The operators are very concerned about the safety of the passengers and the statement "looked back at his passengers and grinned an evil grin' while part of the thrill ride experience, is their means  of visually checking the status of those on board. The company has a good safety record and customer safety and satisfaction is important.

Thrill rides are not for everyone and our hope is that people do make an informed decision to participate. Your activities as a recreational boater and within your own yacht club are  very much in line with the safe operation of vessels promoted by Transport Canada's Office of Boating Safety and it is a pleasure to note that.

I took the opportunity to speak with the operator of the 'rides' this morning and discussed the operation of the boats and care and safety of passengers, bearing in mind the commentary and your concerns. While the movement of the boat is deliberate , it is controlled and the safety of the passengers takes priority overall.

Please contact me if I have not addressed your concerns.

Sincerely,

Ian Rennie

Captain Ian Rennie
Manager, TCC Saint John
Marine Safety/S?curit? maritime
Transport Canada/Transports Canada
Saint John, NB  E2L2B9
Bus. 506-636-3333
Off/Bur. 506-636-4748 Fax. 506-636-4756

Thanks for the update Tom.  However, personally I would pass on such a thrill ride.  Much safe to do loops and rolls in an airplane. ;D ;D

Tom,

I trust that your "verbatim copy" to Transport Canada did NOT include Betty's name or anything to identify her.  You should leave her out of your fight. 

JerryF

Jerry,

Here's a copy of my email. In retrospect, maybe I should have removed "Terry, I, and Russ" as 'identifiers'. Hopefully, you'll read my email in the spirit in which it was written, rather than some "fight" you seem to think I'm engaged in. The comment enclosed by [ ] is my editorial comment, obviously for clarification.

Hello Captain Rennie, and thank you for taking the time to contact me.

Here's a verbatim copy of the message that was posted by the passenger. Apologies that it's one long paragraph, but that's the way it was written and posted by the author. Also attached is a copy of one of the photos accompanying the original message. [The photo was the one Russ took of the stern of the boat; No faces visible.]

Note that the message was posted as one chapter in a continuing trip report, not a standalone message, and not as a complaint by the passenger; More of a "what a thrilling boat ride we had today" report. I should also add that there have been a number of replies to my expressed concerns, including replies from vessel owners who believe I'm being unnecessarily concerned or alarmist.

I'd be interested in your views about the operation of this vessel in this manner, and will gladly accept and respect your professional opinion. I have no desire to cause problems for the captain/operator of the vessel, but couldn't help being concerned for the safety of the passengers, especially when the operator appears to repeatedly and deliberately turn the vessel broadside to the rapids in order to "swamp" the passengers.

We live in a waterfront community and also spend a lot of time afloat. We continually see and hear of boating accidents on our local waterways, some ending in fatality. As a result, I spend a lot of time educating boaters about safety issues and some of the dangers, both as a fellow recreational boater and in my role as Education and Technical Director for our local yacht club. So you might understand that I'm somewhat biased towards safe operation of vessels.

Kind regards,

Tom Jones

"September 4, 2008 Saint John, New Brunswick Reversing Falls

It was a bright blue sky day with a high of around 70. Just perfect for our planned Jet Boat ride on the reversing falls which gave us a very up close and personal look at the power of the tides and an appreciation for the amount of water going in first one direction, then flatten (slack tide) and then go out in the other. Terry and I donned our raingear, jackets and pants and rubber shoes from our Alaska wardrobe. Russ was to be the photographer. We reported at 10:50 am and took photos of the rapids out front. Yesterday when we were there the tide was coming in and water somewhat calm. NOT so today, tide was retreating so the St John River was rushing in and causing big rapids and whirlpools and waves and moving so terribly fast. I was having some hesitation but we had already paid for the trip and the crowds were gone. There were only two other women with us on the jet boat. We were advised to put on their rain gear and remove our watches, keys, glasses and shoes. Yep, even though our shoes were rubber we were advised to remove them. We were told we would get wet. So be it. Our jet boat Captain gave us a lesson on the tides and advised us of the safety standards. He is from Quebec, had a very strong French accent and later I learned just how sadistic he could be. We walked down the gang plank to our front row seat on the boat. I was kinda hoping we could sit in the second row and be sheltered a bit from the water spray but no? we got front row seats. A jet boat is very smooth, does not make a lot of noise but moves quickly and turns on a dime. Mark the driver ( and owner of company) took us out directly into the thrashing current, made a sharp circular turn into a wave and we were swamped, Not splashed, not wet a little but completely drenched to the bone. Water came in my ears, in my nose and down my neck. So much for water proof clothing. Mark looked back at his passengers and grinned an evil grin. We were all laughing. He asked us if we knew what the black birds nearby were. I said they looked like cormorants to us but he said they were vultures and laughed and grinned an evil grin. He was a kick. He talked to us about the whirlpools and then let us experience them. He took us over the rapids again and again and then out to the calm river. He assured us there were no rocks creating these rapids but just the volumes of waters trying to levelize themselves to the incoming tides. Each trip over the rapids created this wave that reminded me of swimming in large surf in the ocean and having a huge wave crash right on your head. When it was over I hobbled up the gang plank, sat down for a while and could finally relax enough to say I enjoyed this event. ?You will get wet ? is an understatement. What a memory making experience!
We drove back to motor home to change into dry clothes and catch a city bus tour but that shall be part 2 of today?s story."

FWIW here's a verbatim copy of my last response. Again, the comment in [ ] is my editorial:

Captain Rennie,

Thank you very much for your prompt review and response to my concern. I'll inform our readers accordingly. [Which I did - with a verbatim copy of Captain Rennie's message. In this case, I left his 'identification' intact, so folks could see it came an 'official' source.] One couple who plan to take the ride next week will, I'm sure, be comforted to read your comments.

Thanks again, and best wishes,

Tom Jones

Tom,

I understand the reason for your concern and agree with you and I also understand the spirit (no mal intent) in which your email was written! 
It's an extremely dangerous boat ride just like is the "Shotover Jet" boat ride in Queenstown New Zealand.

Sorry, my use of fight was not the correct word to use. Maybe "good deed" would have been a better word than fight.  I used to be inclined to do the same thing but my observations in real life have taught me that, "No good deed goes unpunished" especially those that were not requested.

Best personal regards,
Jerry

Thanks Jerry. I was a little concerned by the apparent tone of your earlier message, and feeling once again that my good deed didn't go unpunished. But your latest message clears that up.