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Author Topic: Sin taxes pay for medical benefits  (Read 22953 times)

Hfx_Cdn

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Sin taxes pay for medical benefits
« on: September 13, 2008, 06:35:23 AM »
Just be satisfied that you are neither smokers or heavy drinkers.  All levels of government levy what are referred to as "sin taxes" making both extremely expensive, for example a pack of the 20 pack of little filtered cigars I uses\d to smoke used to cost between $2 and $2.50 in Florida, and I paid up to $14.00 per pack here.  Beer is around $20 a dozen, versus $5 to $10.  But yes Terry, it is comforting to know that every Canadian has access to free health care, even if some times it takes a while to schedule a visit.
BUT PLEASE LET'S NOT START A DISCUSSION THAT WOULD TAKE OVER THIS STRING ON THE DIFFERENCES ON HOW OUR 2 GREAT COUNTRIES CARE TO ALLOCATE TAX DOLLARS!
Ed & Donna
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Tom

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Re: Sin taxes pay for medical benefits
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2008, 11:12:40 AM »
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BUT PLEASE LET'S NOT START A DISCUSSION .... ON THE DIFFERENCES ON HOW OUR 2 GREAT COUNTRIES CARE TO ALLOCATE TAX DOLLARS!

You already did Ed  ;D although I realize you were responding to Terry's comment regarding high sales taxes and medical benefits  here.
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Wendy

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Re: Sin taxes pay for medical benefits
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2008, 12:02:03 PM »
We have a "sin tax" here, too. When I quit smoking in 1981, a pack of cigarettes was less than 50-cents. Now that same pack is over $5 and most of that is tax.

Wendy
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Tom

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Re: Sin taxes pay for medical benefits
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2008, 12:18:40 PM »
The UK has huge taxes on cigarettes and liquor. Used to be (probably is still true) that, when the Chancellor of the Exchequer announced his annual budget for the country on "budget day", it was never a question of 'if' sin taxes would be increased, but by how much. When I made visits to the US, it felt like they were giving cigarettes away with corn flakes (free, or nearly so).

When I first started smoking, my Dad said "as long as you smoke, you'll never have money in your pocket", and he was right. I gave myself a huge pay raise and helped prolong my life when I quit smoking 32 years ago.

UK social medicine? I'll let Paul and the other current UK residents comment, but I think the UK government spends the sin taxes on other things.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2008, 12:20:33 PM by Tom »
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Hfx_Cdn

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Re: Sin taxes pay for medical benefits
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2008, 02:23:53 PM »
      Whilst on the subject of Taxes, I acknowledge that we have much higher sales taxes than anywhere in the US, at over double.  However, our business taxes are the opposite, almost half.  The economists are claiming that is a major rason that we did not slide into a resession this year even though our major trading partner, the US did and stopped buying a lot of our manufacturered goods.
     As for "sin taxes" paying for medical coverage, NOT BY a long shot.
Ed & Donna
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John From Detroit

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Re: Sin taxes pay for medical benefits
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2008, 03:01:02 PM »
Ed, I agree.. I keep telling people we need to dump all business taxes on US operations,  If it's made in the USA it's made tax free, and then increase inport duties to cover the government's loss of income.

This would encourage US companies to make stuff HERE IN THE US.. Thus creating jobs and reducing our trade deficet.

in addition it is a matter of national secuirty... Just how many computers does our military use???? And how many of 'em are made in the USA
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busa

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Re: Sin taxes pay for medical benefits
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2008, 04:15:45 PM »
I`m so glad i don`t drink or smoke, I do buy fuel however ;D ;D ;D
2008 Forest River Charleston freightliner xc 400 cummins ISL 41 feet long pulling a 2007 Nissan Armada. Tampa, Fl.

Hfx_Cdn

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Re: Sin taxes pay for medical benefits
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2008, 04:29:16 PM »
    Well, as for oil, the much maligned NAFTA makes us sell the US oil at the same price that we charge domestically.  So, there is no difference to our raw fuel costs it is only the taxes that makes ours higher.
Ed & Donna
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Jeff

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Re: Sin taxes pay for medical benefits
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2008, 04:53:44 PM »
      Whilst on the subject of Taxes, I acknowledge that we have much higher sales taxes than anywhere in the US, at over double.  However, our business taxes are the opposite, almost half.  The economists are claiming that is a major rason that we did not slide into a resession this year even though our major trading partner, the US did and stopped buying a lot of our manufacturered goods.
     As for "sin taxes" paying for medical coverage, NOT BY a long shot.

Ed:

I though your GST was a great way for YOU to pay for health care UNTIL they stopped refunding GST to visitors. ;D ;D

Hfx_Cdn

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Re: Sin taxes pay for medical benefits
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2008, 06:32:06 AM »
    Jeff,

Considering that we are celebrating 250 years of elected government this month (another first for the Maritimes), we have had a long time to learn how to fool the voting public, now the occasional tourist. 
I don't know what guise was used in the US, but Income Taxes were introduced as a temporary measure to pay for WWI, almost 100 years later, and billions (trillions?) of dollars later there still there. 
I guess it could be worse, I could be sitting in Galveston this morning trying to deal with that mess, and I do have personal experience with a category 3 coming up Halifax Harbour a few years ago, and they have all my sympathy, it isn't fun!!!!

Ed
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Mexray

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Re: Sin taxes pay for medical benefits
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2009, 03:50:04 AM »
All US smokers get ready to up your ante again...Our all-seeing Federal Govt. Congress members passed the S-CHIP legislation last week...this bill, if passed by the Senate, will most likely be signed by our new Pres...will add another DOLLAR to each pack of Cigarettes AND one DOLLAR to each cigar!   All this in the name of providing additional health funding for children...

I don't really think the increase in tobacco 'sin' taxes will gain that much additional income over time...with less tobacco usage as time goes by, the tax funds will be reduced, causing our 'learned' law makers to turn to some other product to keep their coffers 'flush'...it's indeed another one of those 'slippery slopes' we've had imposed on us all...

There are all kinds of arguments out there referring to tobacco users causing increased costs in health care, and they should have to pay more through these 'sin' taxes....However, I read an interesting, and rather unsettling statistic saying that due to smoker's average lifespan being 8-10 years shorter than non-smokers, they were actually SAVING us more money in SSA, and Medicare payments by dying sooner than most...

Remember a few years ago when our all-knowing law makers passed laws imposing excise taxes on motorhomes and large yachts...the thinking was to just add these taxes to stuff the 'rich' would be buying...yeah, sure, so what happened...the 'rich' sent their yacht business overseas, many of our domestic boat builders went belly up, causing many lost jobs, right on down the 'labor' chain, etc...these guys back in DC just don't get it!
Lucky for us, after a few years, they descended that law, and much of that industry returned to our shores...till the big 'E'conomy  went in the dumper, that is...



I'm going to outside, 100 feet away from the entrance of the building (per Calif law), and light up a Stogie...one of life's small pleasures, while I try to forget about all the money wasted at the govt. 'trough'....


Ray & Pat near Lodi, CA...

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Sin taxes pay for medical benefits
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2009, 09:14:39 AM »
Quote
However, I read an interesting, and rather unsettling statistic saying that due to smoker's average lifespan being 8-10 years shorter than non-smokers, they were actually SAVING us more money in SSA, and Medicare payments by dying sooner than most...

Never thought about that side effect of smoking.  Maybe we should start PAYING smokers a dollar a pack????
Gary
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Ned

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Re: Sin taxes pay for medical benefits
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2009, 09:41:17 AM »
That sounds like a statistic the tobacco companies would publish.
-- Ned -- Fulltimer 1997-2013
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geodrake

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Re: Sin taxes pay for medical benefits
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2009, 10:10:55 AM »
I think Gary has something;  rather than raising medicare deductions each year (I realize they didn't do that this year) We should begin giving smokers some sort of incentive to continue smoking, thus they would not be drawing down Social Security and Medicare as long.   
George Drake

Ron

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Re: Sin taxes pay for medical benefits
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2009, 10:40:12 AM »
Never thought about that side effect of smoking.  Maybe we should start PAYING smokers a dollar a pack????

That would also increase the number of non-smokers that are negatively affected by the second hand smoke.  I think they should take another look at it and increase the taxes 5 bucks each pack and 25 buck for each cigar.
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seilerbird

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Re: Sin taxes pay for medical benefits
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2009, 06:21:29 PM »
Imagine how much tax they could collect if they slapped a $50 an ounce tax on marijuana. Wipe out the national debt in a few years.

tswms

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Re: Sin taxes pay for medical benefits
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2009, 06:29:17 PM »
This thread only renforces my belief that there is inly one fair tax.  ONE THAT YOU PAY AND I DON'T.


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Mc2guy

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Re: Sin taxes pay for medical benefits
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2009, 10:11:17 PM »
Imagine how much tax they could collect if they slapped a $50 an ounce tax on marijuana. Wipe out the national debt in a few years.

Here, here.  People are going to use it...might as well create some legitimate farm jobs and a huge tax base.  Better that than to see billions in U.S. dollars heading south across the border to fund the terrorism and murder of so many of our neighbors to the south.
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Luca1369

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Re: Sin taxes pay for medical benefits
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2009, 10:32:15 PM »
People are going to use it...might as well create some legitimate farm jobs and a huge tax base.  Better that than to see billions in U.S. dollars heading south across the border to fund the terrorism and murder of so many of our neighbors to the south.


I firmly believe that legalizing pot is getting to be an idea that should seriously be considered.  For one thing, ending the prohibition on pot ends the illegal trade (taking staggering amounts of cash out of the coffers of certain south-of-the-border gentlemen as you mentioned), saving tons of money spent on investigations, and bringing in even more money via a tax.

Of course the logistics of such a law are staggering.  Who would grow it?  Who would package it?  Who would collect the taxes paid?  Who would advertise the products?  There would of course be competing brands but ads would have to be tasteful, much like alcohol ads that don't show drunks.  Legalized marijuana would create a huge new industry with the accompanying influx of jobs.  It is an economic move as well as a method of tuning down some of the crime involved with smuggling this drug. 

This is just my opinion; I do not wish to engage in any sort of pro-pot/anti-pot discussion.  I'm not endorsing the use of any illegal drug, but I am suggesting an economically focused alternative to a law that is NOT working. 

Steve
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Carl L

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Re: Sin taxes pay for medical benefits
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2009, 12:00:36 AM »
This thread only renforces my belief that there is inly one fair tax.  ONE THAT YOU PAY AND I DON'T.


Not quite.  The old political jingle sums it up better....

Don't tax me. 
Don't tax thee.
Tax that feller,
Over there behind the tree.
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Hfx_Cdn

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Re: Sin taxes pay for medical benefits
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2009, 07:57:58 AM »
    It never ceases to amaze me how some strings seem to have lives of their own.  While talking about "Sin Taxes"  it is unbelievable how much has changed in the world since this string started.  My comments about Canada avoiding a recession were WRONG, the US economy has tanked, most of this continent has had its worst weather in decades, and it's only the first week of March.  Time to get behind the wheel, forget the negative and enjoy all the good things.

Ed
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Sin taxes pay for medical benefits
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2009, 08:13:23 AM »
Quote
People are going to use it...might as well create some legitimate farm jobs and a huge tax base.  Better that than to see billions in U.S. dollars heading south across the border

I totally agree. We tried "prohibition" before with alcohol and that just created a wealthy and powerful criminal world, just like drugs have done today. Attempt s to stamp out social activities that people want to do are doomed to failure, so we may as well get some tax revenue from it and avoid creating a stream of wealth out of the country as well as frequent violence.  There would still be some enforcement problems similar to what happened when the 'whiskey tax" was first applied (the bootleggers vs the  "revenuers"), but the bulk of the illicit MJ market would go into regular channels. We have the basic mechanisms in place for cigarettes nand maybe RJ Reynolds & Philip Morris could have a new role!   I'm sure, though, that the government would try to invent a cumbersome new bureaucracy instead. 
Gary
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Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: Sin taxes pay for medical benefits
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2009, 08:23:33 AM »
Quote
it is unbelievable how much has changed in the world since this string started.

Six months ago who would have believed that fuel would once again be reasonably priced but the economy would so bad that many can't afford to buy it or go anywhere if they could? Or that major retailers, restaurants and corporations would be disappearing almost daily?  :o

I read last night that a major oil industry problem right now is finding places to store oil that has been pumped out of the ground but nobody needs. Tank farms are full and huge tankers are being anchored off shore because there is no place to unload their oil.
Gary
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rankjo

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Re: Sin taxes pay for medical benefits
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2009, 11:05:32 AM »
re 'reasonably priced gas' and where to store the oil no-one wants right now????

When supply is tight, the gas companies have no difficulties jacking the price up to stratospheric levels.
Now, when supply is overabundant, shouldn't the price be much lower?
I accept that the basic drilling/shipping/refining/distributing costs are unchanged, but nonetheless.
Maybe they just haven't thought of it?
 ::)
Rankjo

Wendy

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Re: Sin taxes pay for medical benefits
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2009, 11:25:46 AM »
The problem with "sin taxes" to pay for programs is that sometimes the "sin" goes away and then you're out that revenue. If we're using cigarette taxes to pay for child health care, what happens when people quit smoking (and there are a LOT fewer smokers than there used to be)? The revenue goes down and then we need to jump the tax rate so that the lower amount of "sinners" provides the same amount of revenue. Fewer sinners pay more each to get the same total revenue.

Wendy
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seilerbird

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Re: Sin taxes pay for medical benefits
« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2009, 12:35:24 PM »
The problem with "sin taxes" to pay for programs is that sometimes the "sin" goes away and then you're out that revenue. If we're using cigarette taxes to pay for child health care, what happens when people quit smoking (and there are a LOT fewer smokers than there used to be)? The revenue goes down and then we need to jump the tax rate so that the lower amount of "sinners" provides the same amount of revenue. Fewer sinners pay more each to get the same total revenue.

Wendy

Raise the sin tax rate.

Ron

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Re: Sin taxes pay for medical benefits
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2009, 12:40:58 PM »
Instead of sin tax maybe it should be called dumb tax.  I.E. It is well known that smoking and/or chewing tobaco is hazardous to ones health and IMHO it is dumb to continue. So why should the users of tabaco pay more into the medical to support the dumb habit. ;D
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seilerbird

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Re: Sin taxes pay for medical benefits
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2009, 12:52:01 PM »
Instead of sin tax maybe it should be called dumb tax.  I.E. It is well known that smoking and/or chewing tobaco is hazardous to ones health and IMHO it is dumb to continue. So why should the users of tabaco pay more into the medical to support the dumb habit. ;D

Sin = Dumb

rankjo

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Re: Sin taxes pay for medical benefits
« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2009, 07:16:21 PM »
Well now,   sin taxes pay for a large portion of Canadian Medicare, which is Universal and Free, so I'm in favour of them.

Sin taxes also pay for the advertising that tells people sinning is a bad thing.

But we do it anyway.

Rankjo

Mc2guy

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Re: Sin taxes pay for medical benefits
« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2009, 09:07:25 PM »
I read a study by a Harvard economist that indicated that MJ is a $35B cash crop and would bring $14B a year in cost savings alone from enforcement and prosecution expenses.  Add in tax revenue and the revenue to legitimate producers and you could be looking at a additional $50B a year net increase to GDP.

BTW, I did some consulting work for Philip Morris a few years back and they had a chart that showed where the cost of every pack of cigarettes went to.  IIRC, at the time a pack was about $3 in Virginia, and of that only $1 went to Philip Morris, of which $0.30 was profit, the other $2 went to tobacco settlements, anti-smoking advertising, and taxes.
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