WD hitch AND Timbrens?

OK - I have been fighting this with my dealer since I purchased my 2003 30' Salem camper in April.  Hopefully someone here can shed some light on this.

I have a 1999 Ford F150 4x4 with the 5.4 that is pulling my TT. When I purchased the trailer, the dealer said everything is within limits and there should be no prob pulling this.  They set up the WD hitch for us while we were getting the "new camper" speach.  It did drive fine on the way home, but of course that was also with no gear in the camper or truck.

Here is my concerns - The dry weight on the camper is 7490#.  They told me my truck is rated to pull 8200#. After we added things in the camper we MUST have atleast another 500 or so pounds.  Since getting everything in the camper, the front of the truck is higher then the back, but the trailer is level.  I added all the washers and then one of my own to tilt the head unit, gave the bars another link and my truck still is not level.  It is 2-3/4" higher in the front doing the measurement sheet I got from this cheap Curtis WD hitch.  BTW - these are 1000# spring bars.  Point blank, the hitch is maxxed out.  I can not add anymore washers (I have one too many already) and I cant raise the bars anymore or they will hit the tongue.

I know I am close to max capacity on my truck, but I was told that If I installed a set of Timbrens, that would help hold up the rear which would allow me to free up some tension on the WD setup and would also allow more weight transfer to the front.  I installed these on my truck tonight.  When I hooked up to my trailer, the only thing I found is that I can rest all the weight on the hitch and it dosent squat more than 4 or so inches.  The front however was still in the air.  I hooked up the spring bars, and what I found humerous was that the bars took all the weight off the Timbren bumpers! So, I am still at square one.  My only other option is that the instructions say there should be a clearance between the bumpers and the axle, but there is a spacer included I could add However the bumpers would be hitting even when unloaded.

Short of bringing these Timbrens back, or installing another leaf I am out of ideas - other than a F250.

Has anyone else had this problem or have some ideas?  SORRY this was so long, just need you to know the whole thing if to get back helpfull answers.

Thank You!

8200 huh?   That is odd, the highest I see for a 4WD F-150 5.4L in the 1999 Trailer Life tow rating table is 7700 lbs.   Check it out on www.trailerlife.com in the Tech section.    Time to get that trailer weighed as loaded to travel.   We have the procedure in our library.  CLICK HERE.   

The purpose of a WD hitch is to distribute the tongue weight of a travel trailer equally between the front and rear axles of the tow vehicle.  That should level the tow vehicle.   The trailer is leveled by the drop of the ball mount -- an adjustable shank handles that.   Frankly, I have no idea what the effect of your Timberens gadgets would have on the procedure of adjusting the weight distribution (procedure in library). 

With a 30 footer you will want a really good WD hitch with an integral sway control:  Reese Dual Cam, Equalizer or Hensley Arrow are recommended.   That dry weight is a bit gaseous.   We use gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) but now that you own the thing -- get it weighed.  If it is an ounce less than 8500 lbs, I will be surprised.  If it were, the tongue weight should be 10-15% of it or from at least 850 to 1275 lbs.   Since TW is critical to stability, that 850 is the absolute minimum.   You will need 1200-1400 lb spring bars.

Frankly, you will really need that F250.  An old F150 is a bit light for that 30 foot bad boy.

I suspect the dealer gave you the rating for an F250 5.4L - it just happens to be 8200 lbs! Never, never trust an RV dealer on the tow capacity issue - ask to see the tow vehicle specs in writing or do your own research.

But that's water over the dam now. Your truck should sit level, even if it busts its gut trying to pull that big trailer.

First get it weighed, as Carl suggests.  You should do it anyway and I'm betting it will give you lot so f ammunition for your "discussion" with the dealer. That trailer is going to weigh in at least 8000 lbs and you may well find that the truck axles are loaded to capacity or beyond as well. Hopefully there is a bit of room left on the front axle, though. I'm guessing the tongue load on the hitch is something like 1000-1200 lbs, but a weigh in will tell you that (follow the procedure in the library so you can calculate all the necessary weights).

I see that Curt does not offer heavier bars than the 1000 lbs you have, so it may be that you need a different WD hitch set-up to get enough weight distribution. Since the dealer set it up for you and is legally considered an expert (since he sells and install them), he is legally obligated to provide adequate hardware to do the job. A Reese with 1200 lb bars and the Dual Cam antisway device (you really NEED that!) or an Equalizer with its integrated anti-sway is the right answer for you.

The Timbrens may help the ride and control when you roll over a pothole or RR track, but they aren't going to help your nose-high attitude.

The fact is you have too much trailer for the truck, but maybe you can live with it until you can get a F250 diesel.

I might mention Gary, that a decent WD hitch follows the trailer when a person changes tow vehicles.    My Reese Dual Cam has been on 3 trailers pulled by 3 different tow vehicles.  JonnysX2 won't lose money by getting an adequate WD hitch for the F150 now, even if he upgrades the truck.

His problem is that the hitch was part of the trailer sellling price, so now he has to convince the dealer to come up with an adequate hitch or he is out a chunk of his original cost.

Then he should take the thing back to the dealer and make him bring the tow vehicle to level.  Drive very slowly tho.

Sheest, some dealers. 

Carl L said:

Then he should take the thing back to the dealer and make him bring the tow vehicle to level.   Drive very slowly tho.

Sheest, some dealers. 

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Could very well be that the dealership doesn't have a clue what they are doing.

Oh, they have a clue what they are doing - they are SELLING RVs. Nothing else matters.

RV Roamer said:

Oh, they have a clue what they are doing - they are SELLING RVs. Nothing else matters.

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Unfortunately for their customers that may very well be the case.  Maybe the best action would be to go back and talk to the owner telling him to do it right.  If they do good but if not let them know it may be time to talk to the authorities and possibly seek legal assistance.

Thank you all for the input.  I read the trailer weighing procedures on this site.  Couldn't find a scale that would allow me to do what it said, but I did get it weighed with the 3 axles on a automatic pay scale.  Don't know if this means anything to you, but axle 1 =3240#, Axle 2 =3600#,  trailer axle =7660# and total weight is 14000#.  Truthfully, I almost fell over when I seen the total weight!

JonnysX2 said:

Truthfully, I almost fell over when I seen the total weight!

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Many are surprised while other just seem to bury their head in the sand.  For ones own safety it is important to know the actual  weight of their rig and the weight limits of their equipment and stay within those weight limits.

JonnysX2 said:

Thank you all for the input.  I read the trailer weighing procedures on this site.  Couldn't find a scale that would allow me to do what it said, but I did get it weighed with the 3 axles on a automatic pay scale.  Don't know if this means anything to you, but axle 1 =3240#, Axle 2 =3600#,  trailer axle =7660# and total weight is 14000#.  Truthfully, I almost fell over when I seen the total weight!

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Did you weigh the trailer axle with the couple off the ball?  If not, your 7660 lbs is the trailer weight less the tongue weight which was being borne by the truck axles.   Estimating 12% as your hitch weight, then you total trailer weight should be around 8700 lbs..   It could be as high as 9010 lbs (15% TW) or as low as 8510 lbs (10% TW).  

Your F150 with 7700, or even 8200,  lbs of tow rating is outclassed by the trailer in all three cases.

No, the trailer was still hooked up to the truck.  This was a scale that you had to pay, then drive on just the front axle, move for the rears and then the total.  So with everything being said, point blank, I have too big of trailer for my truck?  Kinda makes me mad if you know what I mean since I did ask and make SURE that my truck could take it which the dealer of course said its no problem.  My fault for believing them I guess, but man, shouldnt there be a law about this?

Yes it is too big. From what I can see in the Ford spec book, the maximum combined weight your F140 can handle is either 12,500 lb (3.55 axle) or 13,500 (3.73 axle). That was for a 2002 - the 99 would be much the same and possibly even less.

Is there a law against it? Sort of - the dealer is legally obligated to give you accurate information and would be considered an expert since he is in the business of selling this gear. But you will have to sue him - it is not criminal to give bad advice. Talk to him about this problem. If he won't make it right, talk to a lawyer.

Also report the dealership to the BBB if they don't make it right.

Yea, I am going to have to get some ammo - like getting this weighed like it is supposed to - and head for the dealer.  Forgive me for another stupid question though. I believe my truck weighs around 5300# empty.  Now, with the trailer with a dry weight of 7490# on the sticker, plus the 5300# truck = 12790#.  Not sure what gears I have since its not listed on the door.  But I do have the larger F150 for that year, so lets say I do have the 13500 GVCW.  Now, I know darn well that once i put in my gear in the trailer and in the back of the truck when traveling that I will be around or over that 13500 mark.  BUT - do you think the dealer will say that the combined weight is still within the limits when empty and its my doing for going over with my gear?  I know it sounds stupid, however you should see these crackerjacks that sold us this trailer.  We have had so many problems with them that it is unreal!  Truthfully, i wanted to give this trailer right back to them after the bs they put us through but I was over rulled by my other half.  Not to mention, we really do like the trailer.  If any of you are in WI, i will let you know who they are.

Another tidbit I found out today looking over this thing is I found the sticker on the hitch.  Weight of 550# straight and distributed hitch weight of 850.  I'm in big trouble, aint I?!? 

I do however only travel short distances.  Longest ride we took so far is 48 miles.  I know I am overweight and can get pulled over, but with these distances do I have to worry too much about my truck exploding or the rear axle falling off?  Big time safety concern?

Thanks again and sorry for the winded reply.

Forget the dry weight, what's the GVWR of the trailer?  Use that to calculate against the GCWR of the truck and you'll find you're way over capacity.  Yes, it's big safety concern, yours and others.

I suspect maybe dry weight figure is there to give salesman a tool to help sell. ;D ;D ;D

Your actual weight (not the trailer GVWR) is what counts legally, so you can't be ticketed or fined for overweight unless you actually are. However, the dealer would lose in a civil suit if he claimed that you are OK at the dry weight and you simply carried to much of your stuff. The concept of "fitness and merchantability" says that the product has to be OK for its intended use, and the manufacturer's GVWR is a clear (and legally binding) statement of the intended amount of weight you can have in the trailer.

If your trailer actual weight on the axles is 7660#, then the weight on the tongue is at least 10% higher than that, more likely 15%. If you weigh the trailer without being hitched, the gross trailer weight is going to be 8000#++, which means you will exceed the 850# weight distribution capability of the hitch. At the very least, the dealer needs to upgrade your hitch for you. You need the higher capacity hitch, even if you get a new truck in  the future.  When you get your actual weights, contact the hitch manufacturer and ask him if you are OK. You will probably be over the hitch ratings, so it is practically guaranteed the manufacturer will say "No way", which should pretty much put the dealer in a box.

The issue with the truck is more complex. You could probably sue him and make him refund your purchase price, but do you really want that? It seems your wife does not. So you are probably looking at a truck upgrade so you can safely keep the trailer you want.

Even a slight overload will greatly increase wear and tear on the truck and cause a variety of early life failures, e.g. transmission, rear axle (differential), universal joints, etc. It also puts you  in the gray area safety-wise. Trailers rarely have truly adequate brakes for their weight, so the truck is going to be overworked to stop the total load. And handling in any emergency maneuver is, well, problematic. You may only be driving short distances, which reduces the risk somewhat, but lets hope no emergencies arise until you can do something to improve the truck.

Thank you all very much for your input on this subject.  Learned a bunch of things from you that I really wish I have known about, or atleast looked into before I bought this trailer.  I will weigh this, do some more calculations and bring it to the hitch manufacturer and the dealer.  See what happens I guess.  Thanks again!