Generator Questions

Hi all.  We're new to this, so please pardon our ignorance.

We've decided to buy a generator to use when we're boondocking, which we seem to do a lot of.

I've gone online, and also checked a couple of local dealers.  My questions are:

Is an inverter generator the way to go?  There seems to be a big price difference, and we're not sure if it's necessary.

If it is, what is a good deal?  We found a local dealer selling an FME 3200 Watt inverter generator for $1200.  He assures us it's powerful enough to run our AC, and also quiet enough not to bother other campers at 59db.  He says the inverter makes it so that the power is better for our microwave, and in case we want to run our computer, cautioning us that the cheaper units could ruin our electronics.

Is he being honest?  We don't want to spend the money if we don't have to, as we've found other comparable wattage sets without the inverter for about half the price.

How loud is 59db?  We don't want to disturb others if we can help it.

Any advice would be appreciated, thanks.

Let me put it this way....  When you are out camping you like (And your neighbors like) Peace and quiet.

So here are a few numbers

Honda EU3000iSA 58db

Normal speach 60 db

Pramac (open frame honda powered) 74 dba

That is 16 DB more..  DB is logarithmic so an increase of 3db means twice as much power in the noise This is over two to the fifth power more power or  Well, many times as loud...

80 db curbside on a busy street

100 DB heavy traffic

110 Chain Saw

And,,, Some of the low-cost contractor's generators I can hear half a mile away in the city. (Through trees and houses) They compete with lawn mowers and chain saws.

The ONAN 5500 on my coach (Which competes with the Honda EU inverter generators) at 175 feet.. In an open field.. I could hear (just) becaue I "Tuned" my ear to it.. but the person beside me said "you can start the generator now"

My recommendation when considering purchase of a generator is to take into consideration of any neighbors that might be in the area.  Noisy generators can upset folks when they are out enjoying the piece and quiet.

Thanks for the input.

I've been looking at the Honda as well, but at less than half the price, just as quiet, sine wave inverter, less weight and remote control, I'm really considering this one.  Has anyone ever had experience with FME generators?

The one I'm looking at is here:

http://wasatch-rendezvous.com/3200WattGenerator.html

AN inverter generator is definitely the way to go if you can swing the price. It will be much quieter under most circumstances because use of an inverter allows the generator to run at variable speed/power, i.e. the engine works just hard enough to produce the output power needed to operate the inverter load. That's not the case with a mechanical generator - it has to run at a fixed RPM regardless of the load. That make sit work fairly hard all the time and produces much more noise.

Low priced generators generally have noisier engines as well. Much of the noise in an engine is vibration, what  the engineers call NVH. You can't silence NVH with a muffler - it has to be designed into the engine itself.

Can a cheaper genset ruin your electronics? Not likely. Real cheap ones may generate some extra crap along with the 120V sine wave your appliances are expecting, but damage from that would be an extreme case.  You may see interference on a tv screen or get background noise in a recording or stereo, though. 

Yes, 3200 watts is a nice size generator - will actually run RV two a/c units, or one a/c and a microwave.
[edit]As dcg points out later in this thread, 3200 watts is marginal for two a/cs of 13.5k btus or more.  Absolutely nothing else could be powered if both a/c are running[/edit]

John gave you some insight on db levels, so I  won't go into that.

Looking at the specs that is 60 DB, and 200 That is 2db and 200 watts more than the Honda...

As I said up-thread, IT takes about 3db (or more) Before you can hear the difference so.... (And of course you don't hit full noise till you hit full load)

Looks good.. My concerns with an "off brand" is parts and service and quality.. But at half the price.. I would say it is worthy of consideration... In fact.. I might even buy it... If I were in the market that is.


One thing I have noticed though.... DB does not tell everything....  DB tells the average noise level.. I've heard different generators that were very close on a DB meter.. but one was far more "Annoying" than the other..  Still, on paper that one looks good.

I want to thank everyone for their input.  I think I've decided to...  Go with the FME.  I'm notoriously cheap, and with all those features for half the cost...

I'll let you folks know my experiences with it, if anyone's interested.

Thanks again.

RV Roamer said:

Yes, 3200 watts is a nice size generator - will actually run RV two a/c units, or one a/c and a microwave.

Click to expand...

Better qualify that.  That's 3200 watts continuous.
3200 watts / 110 volts = 29 amps. 
I'll bet that most of the larger AC units pull more than 15 amps each. 
30A service won't typically power both AC units, we reserve that for the 50A connections....


A lot of generators advertise peak watts, not continuous.  I have a LOUD Coleman generator "5000 watts" - it won't pull my AC and microwave at all.  It will pull straight AC and the RV battery charger, but I have to watch running the fridge and the AC at the same time.

The coach came with a 5500 watt generac generator, which is probably rated closer to continuous watts over peak watts... It'll do the microwave and AC just fine.

Modern a/c draws about 13A continuous. with fans on high.

dcg is correct - 3200 watts is just barely enough to run two large a/c's. Can't have anything else powered - just the a/c. 4000 watts would be a better match.

Posted by: John In Detroit
80 db curbside on a busy street

100 DB heavy traffic

110 Chain Saw

Click to expand...

Hmm! I guess the little 2 cycle 1Kw at 91db that I just bought is quite noisy then  ;D

Have to build a frame to mount it on the bumper. It's just to keep a bit of charge in the house batteries for the next trip. We don't use camp grounds and at meal times (during most of it's use) we're parked just off the highways not likely to bother anyone.
For future use I'll probably cobble one together from a B&S 3.5hp and a GM Alternator. Just running out of time to have it ready for next season.
We bought a nice 3Kw one previously only to find out there's no way we can use it with the  RV, it's just too big and heavy.
John that's an excellent comparative of noise sound to db level, thanks for posting it.

Cheers Willis

If and I STRESS IF,  Your bumper will support it Harbor Freight carries a nifty little 500 pound capacity tray with a 2" hitch adapter mount.. Many trailers can not support 500 pounds on their bumper (Many can't support FIVE pounds on their bumper)

If and I STRESS IF,  Your bumper will support it Harbor Freight carries a nifty little 500 pound capacity tray

Click to expand...

Hi John, alas we already have tray in the 2" hitch socket. It's a Class III hitch It carries DW's mobility scooter (light weight and folds up neat). There's lots of room for the little noise maker as it less than a foot wide and not very heavy. The whole frame will only be 12" X 16" or less. The bumper is 4" square tubular type and quite solid. I just noted that I don't have much information in my siggy (sorry about that) but the RV is a class "C" MH, or "(B+" if there's such a thing)  on an E350  SD cut away chassis.
Cheers
Willis

RV Roamer said:

Modern a/c draws about 13A continuous. with fans on high.

Click to expand...

These things are going to have starting capacitors for the compressor, but even as such, I'd expect that you're going to be pulling more than that.  If you want to test the theory, try running your 30A 110v connection on a standard 15A household circuit.  See if you flip the breaker.. My guess is that you will.

Take into account things that you can't easily turn off - like the automatic battery charger.  Have a fridge?  Even a DVD, VCR, TV, and Microwave - if they are off they draw some power, not much, but some...

I can tell you that I've had problems with my 5000 watt generator flipping the breaker.  It may be a function of my breaker setup, more than my available power out of the thing.  The gas motor that's on it is 10hp.

I also have a smaller 1850 watt generator, I've never even tried to run the AC on that thing - I use if for small stuff, running the TV, charging the batteries, etc. 

Before you buy too little of a generator, I'd invest in a clamp-on amp meter and see how much power you're pulling during AC start up and normal operation.  It'd be a bummer to buy an undersized generator that can't run your major appliance.

dcg9381 said:

These things are going to have starting capacitors for the compressor, but even as such, I'd expect that you're going to be pulling more than that.  If you want to test the theory, try running your 30A 110v connection on a standard 15A household circuit.  See if you flip the breaker.. My guess is that you will.

Take into account things that you can't easily turn off - like the automatic battery charger.  Have a fridge?  Even a DVD, VCR, TV, and Microwave - if they are off they draw some power, not much, but some...

I can tell you that I've had problems with my 5000 watt generator flipping the breaker.  It may be a function of my breaker setup, more than my available power out of the thing.  The gas motor that's on it is 10hp.

I also have a smaller 1850 watt generator, I've never even tried to run the AC on that thing - I use if for small stuff, running the TV, charging the batteries, etc. 

Before you buy too little of a generator, I'd invest in a clamp-on amp meter and see how much power you're pulling during AC start up and normal operation.  It'd be a bummer to buy an undersized generator that can't run your major appliance.

Click to expand...

I posted awhile back about my generator wired incorrectly from the factory. It seems that they all were. My breaker kept tripping and the dealer sent me a new

breaker only to discover the wiring problem after the new one did the same thing. Most gensets (portables) with a 115v/30a socket (with 240v switch) and

115v/15a sockets use a common wire from the breaker to power one leg of the 30a and the two 15a's. My gen had the secondary wire to the 30a and the primary

to the 15a. I could run all I wanted with the 15a sockets, but would trip if I used the 30a for the same load. Changed the wiring and no problems. Also: a lot of the

gens [rated at 3500 watts continuous] have 12a breakers (not 15), but don't tell you that. It is only discovered when the nameplate of the breaker is read.

http://www.everygenerator.com/Briggs-and-Stratton-30239-BAS1001.html 2000 watt similar looking

Just an FYI on power demands...my new rig has a powerline energy management system that will give me the instantaneous amp demand from the coach when on A/C shore or generator power.  Keeping in mind this system displays the "apparent" load, not factoring power quality, but it was very useful in evaluating appliance loads in the coach.  FWIW I have read the following loads.

Base load with converter and 2-12v coach lights running - 3amps
Incremental refrigerator load when AC power - 2 amps
Incremental Electric Water Heater load - 11 amps
Incremental Microwave load - 14 amps
Incremental TV load - 2 amps
Incremental Air Conditioner/Heat Pump load (fan only) - 3 amps
Incremental Air Conditioner load (full cooling/or heating load w/fan on low, 13,500Btu, high-efficiency rated unit) - 8 or 9 amps

I don't know the specific loads of your coach, but 29 amps seems like more than enough.  I frankly don't know how I would ever use the full 45 amps my generator is capable of unless I ran EVERYTHING all at once.

OK, here's my review.

I bit the bullet and went ahead and purchased the 3200 Watt FME Generator for $1100 plus tax from Wasatch Rendezvous, www.wasatch-rendezvous.com. Went to pick it up and save some shipping, picked it up at this guy's house about 20 minutes north of where I live. I was leery at first, but he demo'd his unit, and sold me. Nice guy just trying to make a living.

Got it home, opened the manual, and deciphered the English...

Basically I just needed to connect the battery, fill it with oil, put some gas in and then I was done. Turned the key...

It started right up, no priming, no choke. The noise level was pretty good, from about 50 feet away it was no more than slight background noise.

Hooked it up to my rig with the 30 amp plug... Generator revved up a little, still quiet, so far so good.

Went inside and turned on the AC. Started up just fine, but over the noise I couldn't hear the generator, so went outside, and it had revved up a little more, but no problem.

Went back inside and put 2 minutes on the microwave, with the AC still running. Started up, no problem. Still couldn't hear the generator, went outside, it had revved up a little more, but still not loud.

Went back inside, with the AC running, the microwave running, put on my coat because it was now chilly inside, and started to fill up the coffee maker. Microwave ended, put a bag of popcorn in and pressed the popcorn button. Finished filling the coffee maker and turned it on. It started percolating. I could hear the generator, but it still wasn't that bad.

Sat down in my now freezing trailer, ate some hot microwave popcorn, and finished it off with some hot coffee. Thanked my new generator guy, turned off the AC, plugged in a space heater, and had visions of next camping season.

BTW, the remote is the bomb!  Pressed the remote control, generator turned off. Pressed the remote again, twice on the black button, generator fired right back up. This was through the walls.

IF this thing doesn't break down, I'll believe I got a great deal.  Only time will tell I guess.

Sounds pretty good (literally!).  However, most campgrounds have much less background noise than a typical neighborhood home environment, so the genset may be more noticeable there.

Keep us posted on your experiences with this genset. I'll bet a lot of people are interested in a bargain priced 3200 watt unit.

How to use full output of your generator method one:

On my coach there exists a pair of 30 amp  RV type outlets.. I've been known to daisy feed my neighbor's rig when necessary

How to use full output method two:

There is also a 30 amp twist lock... (Same circuits as the RV-pigtails) It feeds the house in the event DTE enegery messes up

John In Detroit said:

How to use full output of your generator method one:

On my coach there exists a pair of 30 amp  RV type outlets.. I've been known to daisy feed my neighbor's rig when necessary

How to use full output method two:

There is also a 30 amp twist lock... (Same circuits as the RV-pigtails) It feeds the house in the event DTE enegery messes up

Click to expand...

Hi John, it looks as though this is great info.  As a novice, though, I don't really understand it.  Can you explain it for dummies?