Yellowing lights with multiple batteries

The friendliest place on the web for anyone with an RV or an interest in RVing!
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.

Frank B

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 23, 2005
Posts
1,582
Location
Calgary, Alberta
About 3 years ago now I installed 6 golf cart batteries in our 5th.  I've never run them right down, and keep them on trickle charge most of the time when parked at home.  I am finding that while there is a lot of capacity in these batteries, the voltage is beginning to roll off pretty early, and the lights dim long before the battery is depleted.

Is this just a case of the batteries being too old, or is there some way I can 'rejuvinate' them with a heavy discharge/recharge cycle, or something similar?

Thanks.

Frank
 
Frank,

It sounds to me like the batteries just need equalizing. Unfortunately, this requires a battery charger with an equalizing setting. Here's an article on equalizing deep cycle batteries in our forum library. Maybe someone else can offer some advice on how to equalize without that setting on your charger. You could also Google for an equalizing charger.

FWIW I have 10 golf cart batteries on our boat and, although I equalize periodically, all too often I forget. Then I'm reminded when I see the symptoms you describe; I equalize, and voilla! the batteries are back to full capacity.
 
Have you checked to see if all the cells still have electrolyte (aka "water") in them? If any are low, your capacity can be severely impaired. Refill as needed with distilled water.
 
Gary has a good point. I assumed you were checking water level regularly.
 
Yep Tom and Gary both have made good suggestions, as usual.  check the water level and fill as required see if that improves the situation.  If not then likely the batteries will need equalizing.
 
Tom and Gary:

Yes, I keep them topped up with distilled water.

I looked up the article on equalizing chargers. Don't know if this applies, as we use the unti often during the year (including the winter) and I keep the trickle charge on when it is not in use.  The trailer is in a heated garage all winter as well, so the batteries never get cold.

However, It is cheaper to try an equalization before replacing $800 worth of batteries.

Incidentally, the batteries are in three switchable banks.  We switch one set into the trailer circuit until run down, then switch them out and switch another pair in.  The only time they are all ganged together is when charging, either from the truck or from the converter.

Now, this unit has the original Magnatec convertor, and I know that they are not looked on with much favor.  I also doubt that it has any sort of equalizing circuit in it.

So, where can I get one of these units that I can try externally first to see if this is the issue?  Will my RV dealer have something, or posssibly offer this as a service, just so I can see if this is the issue or not?

Thanks.

Frank.
 
[quote author=Frank B]Don't know if this applies, as we use the unti often during the year (including the winter) and I keep the trickle charge on when it is not in use.  The trailer is in a heated garage all winter as well, so the batteries never get cold.[/quote]

I see no reason to think your batteries don't need equalizing.

OTOH I might run a few other tests before proceeding, maybe a hydrometer test on each cell to make sure you don't have one or more bad ones.

.. this unit has the original Magnatec convertor ... I also doubt that it has any sort of equalizing circuit in it.

Me too.

So, where can I get one of these units that I can try externally first to see if this is the issue?  Will my RV dealer have something, or posssibly offer this as a service, just so I can see if this is the issue or not?

The only ones I'm personally familiar with are built into existing chargers or inverter/chargers. I might be inclined to buy one at a place that has a liberal return policy, hook it up and program it, then let it do its thing. Be sure the batteries are fully charged before initiating the equalize cycle. You'll know on the first use of the batteries if it worked (you'll have that "oh this is how they used to be" reaction).

If you can't find a charger with an equalizing feature, buy a Heart inverter and ignore the inverting feature; Just hook up the batteries, not the AC side. You'll need heavy duty wires between the batteries and the Heart.

BTW the Heart is sold at numerous RV and boating stores.
 
Tom:

OK, I'll have a look around locally when we get back home again.  Thanks for the advice.

John:

No,  I check them regularly and keep them topped up.  Did you miss that in the above  thread?  :)

Frank
 
Since you have a Magnatec converter there is a good chance it has damaged the batteries which not an uncommon event with some of the converters.  Charge the batteries check the specific gravity and IF good then run a load test on them.
 
Frank B said:
We switch one set into the trailer circuit until run down, then switch them out and switch another pair in.  The only time they are all ganged together is when charging, either from the truck or from the converter.

Now, this unit has the original Magnatec convertor, and I know that they are not looked on with much favor.

Frank,

What is your definition of "run down?" If you are taking your batteries much below 50% charge on a regular basis, you are drastically reducing their service life. What model Magnatec do you have? The 63xx series is very common as standard equipment and is extremely notorious for improper and slow charging, especially if you have a bank of six batteries.

What is your reason for switching one pair into use and then another pair later? It would seem to me that you should discharge all six batteries to the same degree rather than trying to guess when to switch another pair into service. Unless you have an accurate amp-hr meter to measure degree of discharge, you never really know to what degree a certain pair is discharged. Most, if not all, three stage chargers have the amp-hr meter as standard equipment or as an option, as well as an equalizing cycle. The only way to know the degree of discharge is with some sort of metering system.

Batteries which are not repeatedly discharged to levels below 50% should last longer than three years, especially if they are properly and fully charged between use. I have a feeling that you are not gettting them fully charged with the Magnatec charger and/or discharging them significantly below the 50% level.

Richard

 
I re-checked your original post.. You mentioned putting them on trickle charge (not a good idea, battery minder is way better) but never mentioned adding water or checking acid level.  Which is why I ask.

However since you do check them...  Be aware that if you do not specify we have to ask.  Amazingly enough sometimes the answer is different.

I also missed the brand of converter but it appears Ron did not.  On my list of converters.. That one is dead last.

I like Progressive Dynamic Intella-power 9200 (or the 9100 with wizard) or their equal (And yes it has equals) for flooded wet cells, and several Xantrex models like the TrueCharge XADC units for just about any kind of battery.  Or again their equal
 
Richard:

We have three banks of batteries so that I have a 'fresh' set once  one set gets to around 50% and the lights begin to dim.  No, I don't run them flat, but even if I did, this is what a deep cycle battery is all about.  You are probably thinking of a regular automotive battery.

http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm

Yes, I have the Magnatek 63xx series unit.  I know they are not good, but one can only upgrade so much at a time.  I will look into replacing it, and hopefully my lightly used batteries aren't beyond what an equalizing will do.

On a related matter, then, what is involved in replacing the converter?  This unit has all the breakers for the trailer, and the DC wiring panel with all the  fuses as well.  It would seem to be a major job to replace all of that.  Does it all have to go?

Thnaks.

Frank
 
[quote author=Frank B].... what is involved in replacing the converter?  This unit has all the breakers for the trailer, and the DC wiring panel with all the  fuses as well.  It would seem to be a major job to replace all of that.  Does it all have to go?[/quote]

Sounds like a good subject for a library article. Hopefully one of our techies will jump in.
 
Frank B said:
We have three banks of batteries so that I have a 'fresh' set once  one set gets to around 50% and the lights begin to dim.  No, I don't run them flat, but even if I did, this is what a deep cycle battery is all about.  You are probably thinking of a regular automotive battery.

My 2 cents..

Item #1 - (run 'till lights dim) If the lights are dimming, you are way past 50% discharged.

Item #2 - (deep discharge) ask "Cool Hand Luke".  Just because you can swallow 36 boiled eggs doesn't mean you should.

As for the converter swap.  The actual converter is attached to the back of the fuse panel and can be removed and replaced with a standalone unit with proper care and preparation.
 
You may not find the Heart brand name - they are part of Xantrex now and most units are labeled Xantrex rather than Heart. The Heart Freedom series has become Xantrex Freedowm, etc.  Same units, though.

Most of the Xantrex brand inverter/chargers have an Equalization function built in, but the inverter/charger will cost you as much as new batteries, so there may be no gain there (except you get a top of the line three stage charger and an inverter out of the deal).

A Xantrex XC series charger would be ideal for your style of use. It can charge three independent battery banks simultaneously, has three stage charging and an equalization feature. Prices are around $375-$425, depending on source and model. This is a far superior charger to your old Magnetek.   See
http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/180/p/1/pt/7/product.asp
 
On a related matter, then, what is involved in replacing the converter?  This unit has all the breakers for the trailer, and the DC wiring panel with all the  fuses as well.  It would seem to be a major job to replace all of that.  Does it all have to go?

They make converter/chargers with option 120vac breaker panels that are intended to replace configurations like yours. Take a look at bestconverter.com for some ideas. That won't get you an equalization charge, though.

Xantex makes a nice model that includes an AC load center as well as converter, but it is a different size/shape than your exiiting cut-out.
http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/236/p/1/pt/8/product.asp
 
Thanks Gary. That's essentially what I told Frank to look for in an earlier message, but didn't know any specific brands/models of charger with the equalizing feature.

For clarification, the suggestion to use a Heart/Xantrex inverter/charger was as a loaner (buy and return), in the event he couldn't find an equalizing charger. The suggestion was just to equalize the batteries one time - to see if it helped, not istall it permanently. Aye Xantrex gobbled up several competitive companies and put their name on the products; The Heart Freedom is now the Xantrex Freedom.
 
Back
Top Bottom