Would you purchase a National RV?

I am looking at a 2006 National Surf Side 32'.  The price is lower than other similarly equipped models.  Does anyone have any concerns about buying a National RV since the company no longer exists?  I read a thread on this forum from last January and the consensus seemed to be that there was not a major concern.  Have you seen anything lately that would change your opinion on this?

Also, do you know anything about the quality of the National Surf Side?

I am also looking at a 2005 Allegro that is similar, but the cost of the Allegro is about $12,000 higher.  Any thoughts on the National versus the Allegro?

Thanks,
Delbert

    If I recall the string it was the general feeling that the bulk of the major components are common to most RV's and trucks, ie cummins or cat motors, allison transmissions, etc, so there should be no concern for those components.  However, the coach structure including all of the interior is unique to each manufacturer.  Trim levels and fit need to be looked at carefully as you won't have any warranty on that type of wormanship, but there too, things like the stove, microwave, fridge will al be covered by their makers.
    In short, I might look a bit harder for problems, but if the deal is right go for it.

If nobody bought orphan RVs, the market would be much narrower than it is. RV manufacturers come and go with regularity, though this past year has seen an unusually high rate of demise. National RV, Travel Supreme, Western RV (Alpine), Pilgrim International (Open Roads), Teton Homes, Alfa Laeisure, and Big Foot have all fallen by the wayside in the last 12 months or so. Before that there was Overland, GMC Coach, Travco, Award, Harney, Euro-liner and numerous others.

A large percentage of an RV and nearly all of its major systems come from third parties and so remain available. And RV manufacturers never stocked spare parts once production of a model or floor plan had ceased anyway, so there isn't much difference between an orphan and an out-of-warranty model of a current brand name.  The major items that might be missed are front & rear caps (in the event of a collision), wiring harnesses, and possibly some custom made circuit boards for control of house electrical systems or dashboard functions.  These can indeed be sticky problems if you should ever need a replacement.

That said, there is usually an impact on price when a manufacturer disappears, since some folks will be reluctant to buy. That can mean a relative bargain on the RV.  If the coach is right for you and the price difference worth the modest extra risk, I would not hesitate. National had a pretty good reputation while it was in business and mostly happy, loyal customers. The Surf Side was not one of their higher end models, but gave good value for the money.

As for the Allegro, it will have the famous Tiffin family business behind it. You can take any Tiffin motorhme ever made to the factory in Red Bay, AL and Bob Tiffin and company will move heaven and earth to make it whole again, whether the problem is old age or accident. Sometimes they don't even charge for things that are far out of warranty.  That extra level of support has some value and makes any Allegro somewhat more valuable than the run of the mill RV. Whether it is worth $12k is something only you can decide.

Thanks for the info.  You have confirmed what I was thinking.  There are always risks in buying used, but at least with the Allegro there is a company that will help fix problems that I cannot resolve otherwise.  Is that worth the difference in price, there is no way to know for certain.

Even with lower gas prices, motor homes do not appear to be selling.  So, given the current market, I may not do anything until January or February.  The sellers may be a little more motivated by then.

I assume that the motor home market is somewhat seasonal.  In a typical year, does the market for motor homes pick up in the spring or is it usually summer before sales pick up?

Also, would you have any concern buying from a used dealer that picks up motor homes a auctions?  That is the situation with both coaches that I am considering.  I have a little concern as to why a low mileage coach that appears to be in good condition would end up at an auction rather than being held on a dealer's lot for resale.  Is there an unseen problem lurking?  Any thoughts on this?

Thanks again.

Delbert:

We have owned a National Tradewinds for four years and 70,000+ miles and are not overly concerned with National's demise. As everyone has said an Allegro is worth more today and you will have to put a value on the difference.

The RV market IS a buyers market and for many that means resorting to auction in absence of any other reasonable offers in the time frame they have. That probably especially applies to some financial institutions that have ended up owning many overvalued RV's.

If you are regularly around a dealer you have a good relationship with that is probably also worth a little more if the RV is an orphan.

Good shopping.

While I have no bad feelings with the national product I would recommend the Allegro over the National.  Allegro has excellent factory support which National didn't even come close to when they were in existence.  Personally I think the Allegro is a much better product and not only that, they are still in business.  Hopefully they will remain so.

    As I said in another recent string, in today's cash strapped times, dealers often wholesale trade ins to manage their cash resources.  The Floorplan loan on the new unit must be paid out as soon as the unit is sold, so they often flip the trade.  One of the most common ways to do that is to take it to an Auction.  It rarely means little more than that, and should not raise concerns over problems.  Having said that, use normal caution that you would for any used vehicle, make sure you look for major collision repair, or signs of flooding, and such things, but those should be readily obvious.

Motorhomes are seasonal, but the season is a local thing. Here in Florida, winter is the big sales season, whereas in northern climes it is late spring and early summer. It all depends on the buyers mood and right now, relatively few people are in the mood to make big financial commitments.

RVs in general and big class A's in particular can be difficult to resell in the best of times - the online RV classified sites are always loaded with rigs that have been there for months or even a year or so.  It often takes 6+ months for an individual seller to come to grips with the true value of his once-beloved toy and it is a tough pill to swallow.  And when people need cash, they resort to auctions and ebay to try to generate a sale at any price.

Are the Allegro & the Surf Side apples-to-apples other than manufacturer and year? Pretty much the same chassis, length, equipment and such?  After thinking about it some, $12k sounds like a lot of difference.  If they were both 06's and similarly equipped, I would expect the Allegro to be maybe $3-5k more, not $12k. And given the year age difference, some of that would be erased. What sort of price are we talking about here? Both should be at or below Low NADA Retail value in this market.

I can't find a separate listing in the NADA RV guide for the Surf Side, so no independent input on price. It's a bit different body style than the Sea Breeze & Dolphin, with a  lower level of trim in and out.

When looking at NADA values do you recommend including any options?  What about an adjustment for low mileage?

Take the mileage adjustment (plus or minus) but you can pretty much ignore the options.  The NADA price is "as typically equipped", so it includes all the commonly installed options. Besides, the dealer won't give you a penny for them on trade in, so why pay for them when buying retail?

Gary is right about the options.  Not only that, but the biggest mistake people make in using the options is including standard options.  For some reason the NADA options shows 4 furnaces of various BTU's.  Well, the furnace was not an option, so adding it in only increases a number by an invalid amount.

National vs. Tiffin.  Tiffin wins, even when National was in business.  Customer service.  The Surside and the Allegro, the Allegro was a little higher level.  Surfside when they came out was to get that entry level buyer, get them loyal and ready for the next National.  Same as Allegro, their entry level, but (IMHO) a better built and backed up coach. 

As to a 12k difference?  Up to you, but for longer range peace of mind, might be worth it.  Trade in time, the in business company will be worthh more than out of business, but you would be paying less.  Might be a wash.

Tho no longer going to Auctions, I still subscribe to many BIBLES &  sales results. NO one is buying SUV's  at any price, who can they sell them to if do steal one, RV lien holders are in the same situation, Class B's & C's are moving very slowly, trade in values have plummeted on Class A's so with fuel prices at a year's low RV sales have yet to  stop bleeding.

To cut to the chase,  even a  good  reputation like family owned Allegro  is hurting. I not at all surprised  you can buy a National for much less! A good deal is not a good buy!

harley man,

Thank you for the info.  Can you look at the auction data and give me an idea of what 1998, 27' Class C motor homes are selling for at auction?  If I upgrade I will have to sell or trade my Class C and I would like to have as much information about the value as possible.

Delbert

Folk's you can't go wrong buying National RV they built one of the best motorhome at the time they were in business....!! I've owned 2 of them ..!! If you find one buy it you won't go wrong..!! it's like anything else parts do break even in million dollar RV .....!!

The thread you're replying to is 10 years old...

Still good advice, old question or not.  How about would you still purchase a National?  I would.  While I was in RV sales, we received extensive training on their product.  Built to last.  I won't always find of their style, but definitely their construction.