W-20/W-22 Workhorse Chassis Brake Problems?

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FrontrangeRVer

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I might be in the wrong forum, but I didn't see a chassis area for our motorhomes.  Mods, please move this if I am in the wrong forum.

There has been a hot topic during this last year, and haven't seen it on here.  It concerns the Workhorse Chassis Bosch caliper pins seizing up and not releasing the brakes on certain W-20 and W-22 Workhorse Chassis.  Apparently, there have been many brake failures with these Chassis, and many reports to the NTSA. 

So far, Workhorse and Bosch (manufacturer of the calipers) haven't acknowledged the problems, and all the owners are having to pay for these repairs when the chassis warrantee runs out. 

It appears that most of the failures are with the 2002-2005 W-20/W-22 Workhorse Chassis.

Anyone here an unlucky recipient of the Workhorse W-20/W-22 brake problems?   ???
 
Is this a new problem? The sticky pin slides in the Bosch ZOPS brakes were under a recall back in 04 and I had them replaced under warranty on the 2002 W22 I had back then.  There was a subsequent NHTSA investigation of later complaints but the report seemed to say everything is tied  back to the original ZOPS recall problem.  I gather you have information that says folks are still having problems with the Bosch brakes?  I traded my W22 in in late 06, so haven't followed the news on it closely since. I don't recall seeing any complaints here either.
 
Yes Gary, this is not the recall that was for the pre-2002 models. 

There have been some "word is coming soon" wording from Workhorse at the Fall Workhorse Rally on these sticky calipers, and lots of finger pointing between Workhorse and Bosch.

FYI.  My chassis is a 2006 model, and I haven't had any brake problems. 
 
Last month we purchased or first RV.  It sits on a 2003 W22 chassis.  On our first trip, a deer darted acrossed the road and I firmly applied the brakes.  I would say firmly and not aggressively as the deer was far enough away that I had time to slow.  We live in a deer intensive area so this is not an uncommon site and you learn that if there is one deer there is usually more.

Anyways, the ABS lights came on and would not go off.  For the remainder of the trip (350 miles each way) the ABS light was on but the brakes appeared to function normally.  Upon our return, I went back the RV dealer.  They do not do chassis work there but did send it to a Chevy dealer to have it checked out.  WHat I was told is that the ABS is working properly, and the error code on the controller box is giving an 'old code' and will not reset.  They said that the problem was in the controller box and it was $1600 just for the box.

Does anyone have any experience on this.  The nearest Workhorse chassis service center is about 100 miles away and I do not mind going that far for service if it is truely warrented.  My thought is that if it is just an 'old error code issue', that is one thing.  If the controller box is failing, that is another story and increases sense of urgency.  Since a Chevy dealer diagnosed, I do have some confidence, but I still have questions.

Online, I found a 2002 Workhorse service bulletin for the ZOPS pins but I have not found anything on ABS.  Is the ZOPS pins in any way related to the ABS problem I am having?
 
There are several issues with workhorse brakes, Most are maintenance issues (NOTE: In many cases the factory should be doing a lube job  before they ship and do not, and that's the maintenance issue)

The pins the calipers and pads slide on are very tight tolerance for brakes and thus need lubrication else the brake will not release properly

The bell crank (under the hood) requires lubrication, Newer Workhorse rigs will have a ZERK there to make it easy, older rigs (And no I do not know when they changed, look, if it is there. lube it)

This one applies to ALL vehicles with hydraulic brakes, not just workhorse, It has happened to me, NOT on the workhorse but on another vehicle: Brake hoses are multi layer, if the inner layer fails in the proper manner then it can turn into sort of a one-way valve, letting brake fluid into the caliper but not letting it back out, keeping the brakes engaged (Softly) resulting in over heatinig of the rotor, caliper, and tire.  This is a very dangerous situtation if not discovered quickly

As I said, it happened to me, not on the Workhorse but on a car.. Cost me a tire, rotors, caliper pads etc.

And then we have ABS issues... I've not seen this particular failure but I have had dealers tell me an ABS failure "Might be due to a bad computer and that's over a thousand dollars and since we are not your regular service facility we are not going to do it"

What was it.. A broken wire on a wheel sensor.. NOW understand I already knew it was a wheel sensor, I'd figured that out from the driver's seat.  My regular technician fixed it for way less than a kilo-buck.

You see.. I ask both the dealer I had gone to due to a recall, and the regular guy to LOOK at it.. The regular guy did, took him all of about 2 seconds to spot the broken wire
 
I don't think an "old code' would suddenly appear and then refuse to go away. And ABS controller failures are relatively rare. My guess is that your local Chevy shop hoked up their ABS analyzer and  it did not give any specific problem to fix, so they took the easy out (last thing on every troubleshooting chart): replace the brains.

Most ABS lights are indications of problems with sensors or the wiring harness that connects them to the ABS controller.  I even had one once that resulted from a shorted headlight socket that was feeding voltage back into the ABS wiring via the chassis ground.  I'd try another shop, hopefully somebody who actually knows how the ABS system works and what can drive it wacky.

You need not be concerned about driving it - the brakes still brake fine. You just don't have any anti-lock function, just like in the olden times before ABS.
 
Thanks Gary,

Those were pretty much my thoughts. I actually wondered if they do not have a diagnostic device that is compatable or up todate for W22 chassis since it was a local Chevy dealer and they do not deal with truck or commercial vehicle chassis.
 
There is a code reader for the ABS.. It is a standard GM tool, I don't know why they can't read it either

If you happen to be near Detroit I know the local Workhorse Authorized Service center

Of course if you are that close to Detroit Workhorse HQ is too.


It is safe to drive with the ABS light on, however you will not have ABS features so it's old school if you find yourself in a skid situtation.. Best suggestion is avoid skid situtations.. I've been in one once with the MH.  Thankfully I was flying along at something less than five miles per hour in stop and go traffic and hit a patch of wet leaves on the road (Slicker than ice).. of course at "less than five MPH" exciting was not a word to describe it  "Ho-humm" fits though.  I skidded perhaps a foot
 
JonahNaz,  the ABS light can be fixed by unplugging and plugging back in each ABS sensor at each wheel.  I would take my unit to a Workhorse dealer for this if this continues. 

Back to the OP:

John I appreciate your posts, but maintenance or lack of thereof doesn't seem to be the issue here. Several people's brake failures have contradicted the maintenance issue as you know.  There have been MANY brake failures even after the maintenance (flushing out the brake fluid and lubing the slides).  It seems even with proper and un-needed maintenance, these calipers are faulty. 


 
FrontrangeRVer said:
JonahNaz,  the ABS light can be fixed by unplugging and plugging back in each ABS sensor at each wheel.  I would take my unit to a Workhorse dealer for this if this continues. 

Back to the OP:

John I appreciate your posts, but maintenance or lack of thereof doesn't seem to be the issue here. Several people's brake failures have contradicted the maintenance issue as you know.  There have been MANY brake failures even after the maintenance (flushing out the brake fluid and lubing the slides).  It seems even with proper and un-needed maintenance, these calipers are faulty. 

That may be but my chassis sat for six months on Damon's lot before they put a house on top of it... Which is why I say it may well be lack of maintenance.. Just not the owner's fault... The first lube job, in my case WAS done by Damon.  At least it appears it was cause if it had not been.. I'd be having problems I don't have.

I'm do not mean to discount the posibility of other errors either.. As I said, the tolleances on those pins is very tight,  In fact I think it's a tad too tight.. A thousandth of an inch or two smaller (or larger on the part that slides on the pins) and things might just work a whole lot better.
 
At least you guys don't have to live with the old rude and crude slide pins like I have on my '97 F53.
 
Thanks for the tip on the ABS.  I assume that this is a standard electrical connector like a Molex or AMP type.  Using contact cleaner may also be in order.  However, since we live in Iowa and were hit with lots of ice and snow last night, I might wait until we get south next week.  Crawling underneath on the warm sand near the beach makes more sense than crawling underneath on the ice near barn.
 
If you'd like some interesting reading on the W-20 & W-22 Workhorse brake problems, go to this link.

http://irv2.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8626012545/m/65310232541/p/1

It's been going on for over a year and has over 100 pages regarding the Workhorse brake problem. 
 
Burgman, I don't think we are interested in that site anymore, as most of us have come over here to RVForum and the rhetoric and "Ambassador" bias is just way too much over there.   ::)

Please post here if you have any comments about the brake problems.  ;)
 
FrontrangeRVer said:
Burgman, I don't think we are interested in that site anymore, as most of us have come over here to RVForum and the rhetoric and "Ambassador" bias is just way too much over there.   ::)

Please post here if you have any comments about the brake problems.  ;)


I totally understand.  You are right about the "Ambassador".  However, my point was the topic.  It seems allot of folks are not aware of the Workhorse W-20/22 brake problem.  Just want to make more people aware that there is a safety concern & that Workhorse needs to hear from folks about their problems with their brakes.
 
FrontrangeRVer said:
Burgman, I don't think we are interested in that site anymore, as most of us have come over here to RVForum and the rhetoric and "Ambassador" bias is just way too much over there.   ::)

What an understatement! I've all but been run out of there because I just don't put up with the Ambassador's rhetoric and nonsense. Between him and a few minions, you wouldn't believe the PM?s that I have received.

He's promised to post a new poll, so members here that are members over there that have had brake problems, or are concerned that they could, based on their specific chassis, should take the poll when available.  He claims that it will be a ?neutral, bias free' poll, but please keep in mind he does work for / represents Workhorse and he is the Workhorse Ambassador, or in layman?s terms, the company mouthpiece.
 
ANOTHER brake thread closed by the WH Ambassador today! :mad:

Anyone that has had brake issues or concerns, there is a letter in Motorhome Magazine, March 2009 edition.
 
I see that Richard.  I for one am GLAD to be out of that biased ambassador mess!! 

Thanks for the heads up.
 
I have read that IRV-2 thread from start to finish,  I'm wondeing about this bias

Since I drive a workhorse I have done a bit of research into these problems.

Workhorse has addressed the issues. At least for the most part.

There seem to be 3 main issues.. One is a design flaw that leads to a a a maintenance flaw.  They left off a ZERK fitting.

That one has been addressed (They now put in a zerk) and I beileve there is a TSB on it

Another ... They changed supplier to address this one.. that is the famous "Pins" issue

And the 3rd main problem is not exclusive to workhorse (happened on my towed)

And of course with any rig there is the occasional issue.

One problem Workhose has is getting blamed for a problem caused by someone else

For example.. Workhorse makes and shipps a chassis say in Aug 2004...Come may, the factory puts a body on it

Meanwhle it is sitting out in the rain, the brake parts get a bit... rusty

 
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