Can the water pump freeze?

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Lori M.

Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Posts
5
Location
Where ever we are....Home Base: Tacoma, WA
We have a 40' 2003 Newmar Dutch Star.

The area we live in got hit with a major cold front this past weekend and there is prediction of more snow tonight with even colder temps.

My husband and I were not able to get the RV winterized before the cold snap hit as we were both sick. 

Today, we are feeling better, but....

This morning, we find ice in our toilet bowl and no running water.  We turned on the furnace and the basement heater blower.

A couple of hours later, the panel that shows you if your fresh/grey/black water is full, etc. - we find it is not lighting up when the buttons are
pushed.  We find the water pump will not turn on so we can attempt to flush out the water we still had in our fresh/grey/black/hot water tanks, etc.
and winterize the system.  There is no way to run water from the faucets, etc.

Is it probable that water froze up the water pump? 

We are at a loss as to the next step.  Most of the dealers in the area are on very limited staff or have closed due to the economy.

So, we turn to our fellow RV'ers for ideas of what we can do.

Any response is very appreciated.

Thank you....

Lori
 
Yes, the water pump can freeze. You need to get some heat in the RV right away. Turn on the furnace and let it heat the coach until the pump thaws and you can get some antifreeze into the system.
 
If you have a automotive type trouble light with a shield around it, put a 60 watt bulb in it and place it in your service compartment where the water pump is located.  Turn off power to the pump and if you are connected to shore water, turn it off also.  Once you thaw the water lines out, you may have a leak.  The 60 watt bulb should keep the service bay warm enough to not freeze and if above freezing it should thaw the lines out in that area.  If the toilet water froze you may also have some water lines elsewhere in the coach frozen as well. 

 
Since the toilet froze, my guess is that most of your water lines and the pump froze solid. You need some warm weather or a lot of heat to defrost everything.  Do everything the others suggested to warm up the wtaer lines, wet bay, etc.. And odds are you will have a leak somewhere from a cracked pipe or fitting.

Good luck!
 
Yep the water pump is likely froze up and the inlet filter on the water pump may be broken.  Unfortunately it is likely there will be other leaks.  Turn the heat on and let it warm up inside for awhile.
 
Thanks to Everyone for the advice.

We've had the furnace on all day, the basement heater blower and a portable oil heater.  It's nice and toasty in there now.  The chunk of ice that was in the toilet bowl loosened up and we got that out no problem.  The ring looks look, the valve is moving smoothly and my husband put a bit of RV anti-freeze in the bowl. 

We are not connected to shore water.  Our coach is sitting on the side of our home. 

Hopefully, the water pump will unthaw and we can get some anti-freeze into the system.   

Any thoughts on why the panel lights are not lighting up?  These are the lights that give you feedback on the levels of your LP, battery, fresh/grey/black water.

Coach batteries are fine.  Bulk charging as we have the coach plugged into the 30 amp service we had put in on the side of our house.

Thank you once again to everyone for your quick responses!

Lori and Tom
 
Lori:
It appears that you are new to the form, welcome aboard. 

As you are experiencing; there is a great group of folks here willing and able to offer sound advice.  I hope that you find the freezing problems to be minimal.
 
Looks like you received your answer from all the posters above.

Just FYI.  We winterize and de-winterize our motorhome several times every Winter, depending on when we need to use the unit.  It only takes 10 minutes to winterize, and I do it in early October.  Better safe than sorry, as those frozen pipes are hard to find.  Also, keep in mind that if you have an icemaker, you want to winterize it also, as that small piping will freeze in a heartbeat.
 
The next step is something you should have done already, Trace all your plumbing,  Starting with the fresh water tank outlet and ending with the faucets and drains, find out where your pipes go.  Thus you will locate the water pump

Now, crank up the heat, leave the water pump OFF, there will be some kind of access panel, (might be a cabinet door or a drawer) you can open or pull out to get to the water pump.. Using a flashlight (do a visual inspection, if it does not appear broken (and it likely won't) add more heat, perhaps a small electric "Cube" heater at least 1-3 feet away pointed at the pump.  Leave the compartment open, also open all cabinets and/or remove all drawers that have pipes in/behind them.

I'd give the heater at least an hour.  Then try the pump again, Now this is a 2 person job.. One watching the pump with the flashlght and one operating the switch.. If it leaks, or sucks air, you still have a problem

If it works, but water still does not flow.. Well... If the supply line is frozen or if the lines out are frozen then more time is indicated

You can move that electric heater.. Try to get water first to the nearest faucet to the pump

And inspect for leaks all over the place

PEX pipe may survive. the assorted fittings, elbows, T's joints and such... May not
 
Thanks for the tips everyone.  We too would have had this task done before the unexpected hard cold front hit.  Unfortunatey, my husband and I were unable to even get out of bed for 3-4 days, let alone watch the news for weather reports.  We were in our rig over the Thanksgiving weekend and had planned on being gone now for the Christmas Holiday and New Years until we both fell ill and this happened.   

The heat is cranked up in the RV.  We have a small cube style heater and will follow your tips John.  We are expecting more snow from the North today and tonight.  It's snowing and cold now.  Love the Northwest.

Still wondering what could have happened to the panel indicator lights.

We are new to the forum and thank you for the warm welcome. 

We'll introduce ourselves formally once this issue is under control. :eek:

Lori

 
Check your breakers. You might have blown a breaker trying to run the pump when it was frozen. That might explain the tank lights not working.
 
Any thoughts on why the panel lights are not lighting up?  These are the lights that give you feedback on the levels of your LP, battery, fresh/grey/black water.

They should light if the gauge panel has a power source. May not light correctly, but should display something.  What brand of gauge system is it, do you know?  I'm not familiar with what a 2003 Dutch Stars uses for tank gauges.  Garnet SeeLevel is one common brand in high line coaches.
 
Most likely it was a 12v fuse not a breaker.
Unless the use breakers on high end coaches.

The most likely place for a leak will be the toilet valve it's small and the water is trapped in it.
 
John in Detroit....

Men and from Mars - Women are from Venus

I located the water pump, it's a Sureflow and is located in the water system compartment on the outside of the coach.  The furnace basement blower duct is pointed directly at it.  We put a small cube heater in the compartment and pointed it towards the pump.  Closed the compartment.  We are "discussing" here what you meant exactly about keeping the "compartment" open.

RV Roamer....

As for the gauge system, I checked the breaker supplying the 30 amp service and it's fine.  I checked the breakers in the coach, they are fine.  Even shut the main off and back on to be certain.  I pulled the fuse that supplies the panel power, it appears fine.  As for the brand of gauge system we have, I'm not certain.  I did check the LP tank itself and the gauge there shows 1/4.  Hubby said we had 3/4 fresh when we left our last stop, and he dumped the grey and black before we left so they should be empty.  We did not use any water at all since it's been parked and it's not hooked up to an outside water source either.

We might be SOL on the ice maker.  I'm going to pull it now and see if I can get it to drain. 

Thanks Again,

Lori and Tom
aka Venus and Mars  :D
 
Regarding the panel lights

They work by getting the sensors wet.  it is very slightly possible that the tanks have frozen and though water does expand AS IT FREEZES, both ice and the metal of the probe contract as they continue to grow colder...They may have simply lost contact.. You will know when the temps come back up and things are flowing once again.

NOTE: I do not think this is what happened... But you can test easily enough if you can see the sensor terminals.  You should have 4 or 5 sesnors, these will be screws with wires on them on the side of the tank.  The bottom most one is ground the rest go to a epoxy chip, may be wrapped with tape, but they all go there save the ground.

Run a jumper from the ground screw to any of the other screws, push the button, the panel should show the screw you clipped to.  If not, you have a more serious problem.
 
John, they do not have the screw type sensors as theirs are tape capacitance type.  I suspect the tape may have become loose especially if it is the "ground" one. 
 
The pump could very well be thawed and still not run if the pressure in the lines is still present.  (frozen pipes in and out)?

Also my pump has an in-line fuse located very close to the actual pump.  May be standard installation practice, who knows?.

I wouldn't worry about the tank indicators until I was satisfied that I had the water pipe freezing corrected and protected.
 
The water pump and indicator panel are 12v DC which are not generally protected by Circuit Breakers.  They are protected by fuses, generally automotive type fuses, so check for that,


Make sure that your Battery Disconnect Switch is not activated.
 
WeeWun has a thought too.. IF the sensor panel uses the water pump fuse, and if the pump is frozen, the may have popped it's fuse. check for proper power on the strip.

Ah well... Tis fun weather.. My daughter is on the phone with wife.. She is wishing she was here instead of Las Vegas more than normal.. You see. here we have about 2" on the ground and perhaps 2 more over night...... Las Vegas is expecting 10" tonight.
 
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