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Author Topic: changing to double pane windows?  (Read 16339 times)

wkndfun

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changing to double pane windows?
« on: January 15, 2009, 05:49:14 PM »
Has any one changed out the single pane windows and installed new doublepane units. I use my 99 to visit my mother in law in NJ and it was cold!! The heater ran all night and drained the batteries so bad that I could not start the generator in the morning. So I was thinking first change to a 6 volt set up and change to windows to double pane.

Any thoughts?
Glenn and Tamie
Richmond VA.
1999 Winnebago Adventurer 34V diesel

FrontrangeRVer

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Re: changing to double pane windows?
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2009, 05:58:20 PM »
Oh GOSH.  I have never heard of anyone doing that.  These windows are hard to remove...I mean HARD. 

I would go with the storm window "plastic with the hair dryer" route...the kind you can buy from Wally World.  There are lots of people that have done this temporary fix and have had good success.  Also, make sure you have your big windshield covered as this is your main heat loss.

I would never own a unit without dual pane windows up here....its just flat too cold!
2015 Winnebago Forza 34T
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2012 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon
2005 Hyundai Elantra

Ron

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Re: changing to double pane windows?
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2009, 06:01:37 PM »
I would imagine that changing windows to double pane would be an expensive venture.  I am aware of one individual that was considering doing this but felt it was just too expensive.  Since he never mentioned the cost I have no idea what it would be.
Ron & Sam-home is where we park it. Currently located   HERE

FrontrangeRVer

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Re: changing to double pane windows?
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2009, 06:07:28 PM »
There have been people saying a single replacement window is hundreds of dollars....Much more than, say, your stick house.
2015 Winnebago Forza 34T
2 toads, depending on purpose:
2012 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon
2005 Hyundai Elantra

rhmahoney

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Re: changing to double pane windows?
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2009, 06:33:03 PM »
 have had 3 windows replaced by Peninsula glass in Vancouver WA for $2000.00+.
Driver's side W. was completely new since the cross bar was at eye level and new one has a better, higher location. The door and sofa W.s were a change of glass into the same frames.
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wkndfun

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Re: changing to double pane windows?
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2009, 06:37:30 PM »
I have found a company online that makes they. Yes they are not cheap $300-$500 each. Without the unit being a sealed unit it has little insulation factor, so storm are a waste of money. The hair dryer type just cut down on drafts.
Glenn and Tamie
Richmond VA.
1999 Winnebago Adventurer 34V diesel

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: changing to double pane windows?
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2009, 07:36:56 PM »
You will spend a lot of bucks on changing out the windows and that's probably only one piece of your cold coach problem. As was mentioned already, the windshield is a big heat loss/gain area, as are the skylights and crank up vents. And your basic wall/floor/ceiling/insulation may not be up to the sort of weather you were in either.
Gary
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Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

wkndfun

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Re: changing to double pane windows?
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2009, 07:44:29 PM »
Gary thanks the windshield is huge!! You both right that I would not gain much consider the size of the windshield. My wife and I do not mind the cold as we sleep. Just with boondocking the batteries are going dead. The blower in turn on and off all night long. I also burn about 10 gals of propane a night.
Glenn and Tamie
Richmond VA.
1999 Winnebago Adventurer 34V diesel

Howard R

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Re: changing to double pane windows?
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2009, 10:54:34 PM »
Glenn,

You might take a look at a product called Reflectix ...kind of a bubble wrap between two layers of foil, about 1/4 inch thick.

<http://www.reflectixinc.com/basepage.asp?PageIndex=729#ReflectiveInsulations>

We had the 'opportunity'     ;D    to spend last winter in Pueblo, CO.  While not the coldest spot we could have been it was a little chilly at times.  I picked up a 50' roll ( x 4' ) I think it was, at Lowe's.  Made cut out panels to fit the windows and it sure did make a big difference ... especially on the front windows.  It should help a lot.

Only draw back is you can't see out obviously ... That's where the film you attach then heat to shrink would be better.  But it did the job for us.

Howard
2001 Fleetwood Southwind 35R
V10   F53
2003 Jeep Liberty Toad
Minnesota

SCVJeff

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Re: changing to double pane windows?
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2009, 12:02:10 AM »
I'm with Howard on the Reflectx. I have a one-piece roll that goes across the windshield and it makes a huge difference inside, otherwise there is a significant drop in temp up front. That's also my UV storage block.

On my 85' Pace I had pieces cut for all windows around the beds, and that made all the difference between sleeping or freezing (even in Calif.).
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wkndfun

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Re: changing to double pane windows?
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2009, 09:45:40 AM »
Thanks that sounds like a good solutions for when we visit her in the winter. I don't need to see out we boondock in her driveway. It is a nice wooded lot but we only begin the rv to have are own area and bed to sleep in. How are you holding it in the window? Tape or just fitted?
Glenn and Tamie
Richmond VA.
1999 Winnebago Adventurer 34V diesel

Howard R

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Re: changing to double pane windows?
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2009, 11:48:04 AM »
Front window I used some of that silver tape, but most any kind would work ... not a lot, just a few pieces to hold it in position.

The other windows mostly put the cut out in the window and then let the shades down to keep it in place.

It sure did cut down on that  "waterfall" of cold air coming off the windows.

Howard
2001 Fleetwood Southwind 35R
V10   F53
2003 Jeep Liberty Toad
Minnesota

wkndfun

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Re: changing to double pane windows?
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2009, 01:35:11 PM »
Thanks that's how I was thinking about doing it.
Glenn and Tamie
Richmond VA.
1999 Winnebago Adventurer 34V diesel

John Canfield

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Re: changing to double pane windows?
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2009, 03:43:49 PM »
Glenn - we bought a roll of that bubble stuff at a Camping World for the front windshield and cut it to size to where it stays in place by itself.  It *really* makes a huge difference in reducing the heating or cooling demands.  We're lucky enough to have the double pane windows, but there is a monster BTU loss/gain with all of that front glass.
--John
2005 Horizon 40AD, 2006 Jeep Rubicon Unlimited
Our Horizon projects
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wkndfun

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Re: changing to double pane windows?
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2009, 03:54:24 PM »
John Thanks for you input. We will give it a try.
Glenn and Tamie
Richmond VA.
1999 Winnebago Adventurer 34V diesel

Mc2guy

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Re: changing to double pane windows?
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2009, 10:18:37 AM »
I also burn about 10 gals of propane a night.

Something does not seem right with your furnace.

A gallon of propane has 91,000 Btus in it.  Most Class-A furnaces are rated at up to 40,000 Btu/hour.  Regardless, your furnace would have to burn non-stop (no cycling) for 24 hours at full capacity to burn 10 gallons.  (91,000 Btus x 10 hours / 40,000 Btus per hour =~24 hours)

There might be a problem with your furnace or a leak in your system.
Christian, Jenn, Holden, Emerson, and Fletcher
2015 Forest River Sunseeker 3170DS
2008 Winnebago Sightseer 35J (SOLD)

wkndfun

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Re: changing to double pane windows?
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2009, 03:37:05 PM »
That interesting. Maybe it was not fulled all the way to start with, but it toke 22 gals to fill it up.
Glenn and Tamie
Richmond VA.
1999 Winnebago Adventurer 34V diesel

Mc2guy

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Re: changing to double pane windows?
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2009, 12:02:33 PM »
Something does not seem right with your furnace.

A gallon of propane has 91,000 Btus in it.  Most Class-A furnaces are rated at up to 40,000 Btu/hour.  Regardless, your furnace would have to burn non-stop (no cycling) for 24 hours at full capacity to burn 10 gallons.  (91,000 Btus x 10 hours / 40,000 Btus per hour =~24 hours)

There might be a problem with your furnace or a leak in your system.


I should have said "x 10 gallons" above.
Christian, Jenn, Holden, Emerson, and Fletcher
2015 Forest River Sunseeker 3170DS
2008 Winnebago Sightseer 35J (SOLD)

MikW

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Re: changing to double pane windows?
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2009, 03:52:01 PM »
Glenn,

You might take a look at a product called Reflectix ...kind of a bubble wrap between two layers of foil, about 1/4 inch thick.


Just bought a '96 Adventurer (my first RV) and couldn't find windshield sunscreens locally.  I found this website and read this post about the Reflectix.  After making my trip to Lowe's and purchasing the 4x25 roll all is WELL!!  I had enough to cover cockpit windows, and most other windows.  It works great!!

Thanks. :) :)
1996 Adventurer
WCG34WK
P30, GM 454

John Canfield

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Re: changing to double pane windows?
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2009, 06:22:55 PM »
We're glad you found this forum - welcome aboard!
--John
2005 Horizon 40AD, 2006 Jeep Rubicon Unlimited
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Stan Birch

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Re: changing to double pane windows?
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2009, 04:12:59 PM »
I really regret ordering dual pane windows with my rig.  >:( The seals on 9 of the windows that now have to be replaced, started failing around the 5 year point; the worst being the passenger side window that is used to view the rearview mirror. If I had a choice, I would replace all of them with single pane glass, but according to the info the dealer received from Winnebago, that is not an option since the the measurements are different for the two types of windows.  :-\

The cost of a new large trapezoid front passenger side window glass was $200 CDN including shipping. So I ordered a new glass for our northern Autumn colour tours. The local Winnebago dealer said it would take about 5 days. Five days passed, then a month passed; and then two months . . . Having been fed one story or another over three months, I went to see the dealer. Oops! No more RVs on the lot; and the store/office area had been cleaned out to the bare walls.  :-\ So I made quick call to Mastercard about an "unauthorized charge" on my credit card.  ;D No problem in getting the charge deleted.

Although not actively pursued as a traveling objective, for at least a few weeks of the year, we may find ourselves encountering sub-freezing nights dipping down to 0F. For sure, the thermopane windows eliminate the nightly drip, drip, drip of non-insulated windows; and it's surprizing how little increase in window temperature is needed to eliminated the drip, drip, drip. At 0C/32F outside, dual pane windows are only 3C/6F warmer than the non-insulated windows.

Bottom line: I would prefer my windows to be fogged up for only a few nights of the year, rather than the year-round fogging offered by defective dual pane windows. Can dual pane windows be engineered to last forever? At least for houses: according to the warranty/guaranty provided by the oldest and most respected window installer in our community, the new windows installed in our house have a lifetime parts and labour guaranty. And Winnebago Excel windows have what? A one year warranty??  :-\
1999 Winnebago Adventurer 32T Ford V-10
Newmarket, Ontario

John Mo

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Re: changing to double pane windows?
« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2009, 10:39:17 AM »
Given the trouble I've heard about and seen firsthand on my Bounder, I wouldn't go out of my way to get double-pane windows. I'm just as happy that my new Winnebago doesn't have them, but I may regret it a little in the heat of the of the summer. We don't camp in cold weather much, so single panes should work out fine for us.
2009 Winnebago Sightseer 35J

ArdraF

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Re: changing to double pane windows?
« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2009, 12:32:19 PM »
I'm guessing that you might have gotten somewhat different responses had this thread been out in the general forum instead of Winnebago-specific.  Most of us who now have dual-pane windows and previously had single-pane (in other motorhomes) would not want to go back to single pane.  Now I realize I'm not taking into account here the original question about changing out single-pane for dual-pane windows, but in response to later comments, overall I think most motorhomers who have newer RVs with factory-installed dual-pane windows are much happier with them for many reasons, most of which have to do with better heating, cooling, and sound-deadening.

Stan, it's too bad you've had such an unhappy experience with the dual-pane windows in your motorhome.  It almost sounds like they were installed on a really bad day at the factory or they put the "new guy" on the job.  Based on previous threads we've had elsewhere on this forum, I don't believe this is a common issue across all motorhomes.  Maybe Winnebago was having a problem with their window installation section?

Anyway, what I'm trying to convey here is that across the broader RVing community I truly believe most owners like dual-pane windows and it's too bad that a few really bad installations make it such a negative experience for some of you.  There are always occasional "lemons" on a factory line and we all hope ours isn't one of them.

ArdraF
ArdraF
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Ron

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Re: changing to double pane windows?
« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2009, 12:50:41 PM »
Absolutly correct Ardra.  We wouldn't even consider going back to single pane windows.  There are a very low percentage of problems with dual pane in comparison with trouble free dual panes I am sure.
Ron & Sam-home is where we park it. Currently located   HERE

Just Lou

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Re: changing to double pane windows?
« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2009, 12:59:56 PM »
I agree with you Andra.  I have an 11 year old Bounder with one fogged window pane.  I would much rather replace that one double paned window, and maybe others in the future, than return to all the negative characteristics of single pane windows.

Some folks are more eager to condemn the whole concept than to admit they may simply have an inferior product, supplier or installer.

I can live with my dual pane windows, no sweat. (pun intended) ;)
'97 Bounder 34V (F53 w/tag), '99 Honda Accord EX

Mc2guy

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Re: changing to double pane windows?
« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2009, 04:25:21 PM »
Also keep in mind that Winnebago (or most any other manufacturer) is sourcing the windows, they are not making them from scratch.  It sounds like turn of the century Winnebago dual pane windows were not sourced from a high-quality supplier.  I have had no such problems with mine so far after a lot of cold weather use this winter.  I also notice the dramatic difference in condensation between the front windshield vs. the other windows, a direct result of single vs. dual pane.  I wouldn't go to single pane windows based on my experience.
Christian, Jenn, Holden, Emerson, and Fletcher
2015 Forest River Sunseeker 3170DS
2008 Winnebago Sightseer 35J (SOLD)

Stan Birch

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Re: changing to double pane windows?
« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2009, 05:24:45 PM »
Stan, it's too bad you've had such an unhappy experience with the dual-pane windows in your motorhome.  It almost sounds like they were installed on a really bad day at the factory or they put the "new guy" on the job.  Based on previous threads we've had elsewhere on this forum, I don't believe this is a common issue across all motorhomes.  Maybe Winnebago was having a problem with their window installation section?

Ardra,

This has nothing to do with the way Winnebago installed the windows. The problem rests with the manufacturer of the windows: Excel?, i.e. Atwood. Way back in '99, dual pane windows for RVs, were still somewhat of a novelty; an idea that cost me an extra $1000 at inception as an option. Perhaps these early offerings were not all that great, and prone to failure. One can only hope that Atwood has learned a couple things over the last ten years, and that they've now learned how to do it right!

There is also a downside for Winnebago in all of this. With a ten year old rig with a whole lot of miles on it, I am more than ready to trade it in on a new one; but a rig with nine foggy windows, along with the expected wonders of the use of luan plywood in a rather rainy climate, it'll take me another ten years to get the rig ready to trade!  ;D 
 
1999 Winnebago Adventurer 32T Ford V-10
Newmarket, Ontario

Stan Birch

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Re: changing to double pane windows?
« Reply #27 on: March 16, 2009, 05:37:21 PM »
Also keep in mind that Winnebago (or most any other manufacturer) is sourcing the windows, they are not making them from scratch.  It sounds like turn of the century Winnebago dual pane windows were not sourced from a high-quality supplier. 

I have to give Winnebago the benefit of the doubt on that. With limited choices, they chose the well known RV supplier, Atwood (i.e. Atwood RV furnaces, water heaters, etal) to supply their dual windows. Atwood was the one that screwed up!!
1999 Winnebago Adventurer 32T Ford V-10
Newmarket, Ontario

Just Lou

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Re: changing to double pane windows?
« Reply #28 on: March 16, 2009, 05:53:21 PM »
I have to give Winnebago the benefit of the doubt on that. With limited choices, they chose the well known RV supplier, Atwood (i.e. Atwood RV furnaces, water heaters, etal) to supply their dual windows. Atwood was the one that screwed up!!

My windows are eleven years old.
My windows are Atwood.
My windows are installed in a Bounder.
one (1) window of eleven (11) is fogged.
Go figure ??? ???
'97 Bounder 34V (F53 w/tag), '99 Honda Accord EX

John Canfield

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Re: changing to double pane windows?
« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2009, 06:20:27 PM »
We had an Excel window fog up before the coach was a year old  :-\
--John
2005 Horizon 40AD, 2006 Jeep Rubicon Unlimited
Our Horizon projects
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