Is my 2500HD capable to tow 13,000

Hello all,

  I am looking at upgrading from my Trail cruiser TT to a Keystone Raptor 5th wheel.  I have read and studied many avenues about the actual towing capabilities of my truck and am still in the dark.  I have an '06 2500HD Chevrolet crew cab short bed with the 8.1L gas engine, automatic 6 speed Allison transmission w/ manual option/ tow haul option, 4:10 rear end, and a Tekonsha Prodigy brake box.  I am installing the Firestone Ride Rite air bags, B&W turnover hitch, and the Ranch Hand 8" offset gooseneck adapter.  The camper is the Keystone Raptor 361 LEV toy hauler.  The Keystone brochure states the unit is 12420 lbs. shipping weight and has a carrying capacity of 4080lbs.  The hitch lists 2745 lbs, and the length is 39' 7".  I have been told several different towing capacities on my truck, ranging from 12,000 lbs. (Chevy manual) to 15,800 lbs. (Keystone dealer).  I don't want to max out my truck, but also just last month paid it off and am not wanting to have to get a new one.  Any suggestions/recomendations/information are truly appreciated

You listed a gross vehicle weight restriction of over 16,400 lbs for the loaded trailer.  You're vehicle, according to the manufacturer is limited to 12,000 lbs and even by the most optimistic accounts (the Keystone dealer wants to sell you a trailer BTW ) is only capable of 15,600 lbs, leaving you with a moderate to severely overloaded truck (most around here would recommend a minimum of 10% safety margin in rating tow capacity).  To accomplish that margin, you need a vehicle listed by the manufacturer as capable of towing ~ 18,000 lbs.

I think you need a bigger truck or a smaller lighter trailer. :-\

Keep in mind dealers and salesman are known to tell you what THEY think will close the deal with no regard for you and anybody with you or near you safety.  Use the GVWR from the tag on the trailer and the GVWR for your truck as provided by the manufacturer.

First of all, use gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) or base weight + carrying capacity in judging towability.   Your prospective unit has a GVWR of 16500 lbs.

You have the short wheel base crew cab --  with 4wd, the Trailer Life tables list 15,300 lbs as the nominal tow rating.  We like to allow a 10% factor to account for truck loads beyond driver and fliuids and allow for truck age and state of tune.  If you would tow in the mountain or Pacific west with your gas engine, allow a 20% factor to allow for grades and altitudes.  Thus for towing on the flats of the east, get a trailer with a GVWR of no more than 13,770 lbs;  for the Rockies and west make that maximum GVWR of 12240 lbs.

To cut to the chase, that trailer grossly exceeds the safe tow capacity of your truck.

Salesmen opinions?  Well if the guy sells you the trailer, he gets paid.  If not, no pay.  You figger it.  ;D

Bubba,

When towing a 5th wheel, you have three limitations....all of which are available in your truck owner's manual and/or doorpost placard and can be computed together with the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of  the 5er which can be found on the trailer's placard located inside one of the cabinets or outside somewhere towards thee front.

First is the Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR) of the truck. This is the fully loaded (people, fuel, stuff, fifth wheel hitch) truck weight plus the GVWR ( or actual loaded weight) of the trailer. Since you haven't bought the trailer yet, use the placarded GVWR.

Second, is the GVWR of the truck itself. Go weigh your truck fully loaded and get the axle weights. Add the weight of any extra passengers and the stuff you will be carrying.

Finally, the Gross Axle Ratings (GAWR) of the truck. Almost without exception, it's the GAWR of the truck's rear axle that is the limiting factor of the two axles. When you weigh your truck, add 20% of the trailer's placarded GVWR to your rear axle's weighed/computed weight.

If any one of these limitations are exceeded, it's a no go.

IMHO, without even computing any of the above, I don't think any gas powered 2500 is capable of safely pulling a 39 ft fifth wheel.

Thanks for the feedback.  I have checked the manual for my truck and also the door sticker for the GVWR.  In the manual it lists 12,000 pounds, but this weight is also listed for all but two or three of the trucks Chevy makes, and none of them go over 15,000.  I am wondering if the 12,000 is a bumper pull weight limit?I agree about the salesman telling me what he thinks will sale the rig.  I will have to find a local scale and see if I can weigh the truck without the trailer.  Even the lightest camper Keystone makes in the toyhauler has a listed ship weight of 9190 and a carrying capacity of 3810.  Even that's over the 12,000 listed in the Chevy manual. :-\  Somehow that seems very limiting on the types/makes of 5th wheels available for my 3/4 ton HD and even a 1 ton.  Am I wrong in thinking this?

What is the exact nomenclature of the 12000 lb figure you quote? Is it GCWR or max trailer weight. No matter, you stated the trailer is 12420 curb weight. Before you even load up that 5er you are over the 12k weight. To answer your question, yes you are wrong. IMHO, a gas powered 2500 is not enough to haul a 12000 lb plus toy hauler. BTW, I suspect the 12k figure is trailer weight, not GCWR. Heck, your truck is probably around 7000 lbs loaded. That would only leave you around 5000 lbs of trailer to tow if it was the GCWR.

These are the numbers from the door and manual for my truck:
GVWR - 4,173kg (9200lb)
GAWR - 2,118kg (4670lb)
GAWR-RR - 2,760kg (6084lb)
Payload - 1505kg (3317lb)

Cargo Weight Rating- 821kg (1811lb)

This was also something I found on edmunds.com:

Powertrains and Performance

The HD's base engine is a 6.0-liter V8 rated at 300 horsepower and 360 pound-feet of torque. Chevrolet offers two even more powerful options: an 8.1-liter V8 and the 6.6-liter Duramax turbodiesel. The 8.1-liter engine boasts an impressive 330 hp and 450 lb-ft of torque, while the updated-for-'06 6.6-liter diesel V8 makes 360 hp and 650 lb-ft of torque. The standard transmission for the 6.0-liter V8 is a five-speed manual with a heavy-duty four-speed automatic optional. The 8.1-liter V8 and 6.6-liter diesel can be hooked up to either a six-speed manual or a heavy-duty Allison six-speed automatic. Being heavy-duty trucks, these brutes can certainly pull: Trucks properly equipped and fitted with the 6.0-liter V8 can pull around 10,000 pounds; the 8.1L and Duramax V8s bump that figure to 12,000 pounds. Adding a fifth wheel for trailering gives a HD the ability to pull 16,000 pounds.

Your prospective unit has a GVWR of 16500 lbs.

Click to expand...

What was the source of that figure, Carl? The most I can find in 2006 Trailer Life Tow Guide for a shortbed 2500HD 4WD with 8.1L V8 and 4.11 gears is 15,300 lb, whether towing a TT or a fifth wheel.

http://www.trailerlife.com/images/towratings/2006/TowingRatings_p20_33.pdf

No matter - the truck will still be overloaded at the 16,500 trailer GVWR - or anywhere near it. And I suspect the 2745 hitch weight will also be too much for the truck's rear axle, though maybe not.  That weight is when dry and empty, though, and will surely increase when the trailer is loaded for the road.l

The 16500 lbs is the GVWR of Bubbabuzz's trailer

RV Roamer said:

What was the source of that figure, Carl? The most I can find in 2006 Trailer Life Tow Guide for a shortbed 2500HD 4WD with 8.1L V8 and 4.11 gears is 15,300 lb, whether towing a TT or a fifth wheel.

http://www.trailerlife.com/images/towratings/2006/TowingRatings_p20_33.pdf

No matter - the truck will still be overloaded at the 16,500 trailer GVWR - or anywhere near it. And I suspect the 2745 hitch weight will also be too much for the truck's rear axle, though maybe not.  That weight is when dry and empty, though, and will surely increase when the trailer is loaded for the road.l

Click to expand...

The 16,500 lbs is the GVWR of the trailer.   Sorry if I did not make that clear.  Its source is Bubbabuzz's numbers for his trailer. 

The trailerlife spec sheet shows that there are only two trucks that Chevy makes that could carry the 16,500 rating and those are the 3500ext./reg. cab 2wd/4wd at 16,600 and 16,700lbs.  I'm shocked that out of 9 campers by Keystone, the Chevy 3500 trucks that can haul them are only 100 to 200 pounds rated over the campers loaded rating.  Cardinal trailers have 6 out of 10 that are GVWR'd at 15,500.  I guess I'm gonna stick with our TT since the majority of 5th wheels are seeming to be grossly above the 2500HD or the 3500HD tow ratings.  It's a shame too, because I am having the B&W turnover and airbags installed tomorrow for nothing.

Bubbabuzz said:

Thanks for the feedback.  I have checked the manual for my truck and also the door sticker for the GVWR.  In the manual it lists 12,000 pounds, but this weight is also listed for all but two or three of the trucks Chevy makes, and none of them go over 15,000.  I am wondering if the 12,000 is a bumper pull weight limit?I agree about the salesman telling me what he thinks will sale the rig.  I will have to find a local scale and see if I can weigh the truck without the trailer.

Click to expand...

You are driving yourself nuts with numbers.  Look for the tow rating of the truck.   You should find in the owner's manual or on Trailer Life's tow rating tables, which you can find HERE.   The tables have ratings for conventional and 5th wheel tow and for cab, wheel base length, 2/4wd, engine,  and rear end ratio.   All you need do then is apply safety factors for truck cab loads and altitude operation if needed.   With a 5er you wiil want to compare the rear axle rating of the truck with the pin weight of the trailer.

  Even the lightest camper Keystone makes in the toyhauler has a listed ship weight of 9190 and a carrying capacity of 3810.  Even that's over the 12,000 listed in the Chevy manual. :-\  Somehow that seems very limiting on the types/makes of 5th wheels available for my 3/4 ton HD and even a 1 ton.  Am I wrong in thinking this?

Click to expand...

Not at all.   Even Peterbuilt/Kenworth heavy haulers have their tow rating limits.   You are looking at some of the largest, heaviest RV trailers made.  If you came in with no truck we would be pointing you toward the F-450 or a medium duty truck with a towing platform like the one's Peterbuilt and Volvo make.   We would also point you toward a desiel, especially for operation in the west.  

Your 2500 is a good truck but not for the size of trailer your are looking at.

Weigh the truck, but it is the trailer weight that counts in this case.    

I agree.  It's just kind of  a let down since the wife and I had really taken a liking to the Raptor Toyhauler unit we were looking at. The dealer even had it with the class A exterior paint job.  Looking at the Open Range brand 5th wheels, they seem to have the features (minus the toyhauler :'() and the weight class we are looking for/needing.

Be thankful you got the facts instead of believing the saleman that didn't care about your safety just making a sale.

What Carl said above is correct except I think he meant to say that you need to compare the rear axle rating of the truck with the pinweight of the trailer plus the weight of the rear axle after you weigh it. If you don't have the fifth wheel hitch already installed, add around 150 lbs the the weight.

Figuring the truck's capability is a little different between a trailer and a fifth wheel because you also have to bring the rear axle into the picture and that can be the limiting factor. For example, when I bought my present 5er, I had an F250 diesel. I could haul the trailer based on the GCWR but it busted the rear GAWR. I wanted the trailer, so I had to trade the F250 for an F350 single rear wheel (SRW) and I'm glad I did. Now I have a comfortable safety margin on all the weight limitations.

I'm a Ford truck guy. Ford lists GCWRs of their trucks. For you GM and Dodge guys out there, do they do the same for Chevy, GM and Dodge trucks? Or do they call it something else?

Please bear with me.  Y'all seem to know your ratios to a T and I trust your judgement.  After going to the Chevy dealer to barter a trade and they offered me $25,000 less tan I payed two years ago, I went and searched for a lighter 5er toyhauler.  I found a camper that has a shipping weight of 10,780lbs and a carrying capacity of 3,625lbs.  This totals 14,405.  Does this sound like it is safely feasable to haul/stop with my 2500HD?  Also, what are the advantages/disadvantages to having three axles on the camper?

I gave you the limits I would consider safe for your unit.    For towing on the flats of the east, get a trailer with a GVWR of no more than 13,770 lbs;  for the Rockies and west make that maximum GVWR of 12240 lbs.   It is your money and your trailer and I am just a guy on a forum, you have to make your own choices.

The sole advantage of three axles is to carry a heavier total load than two.   It is all a matter of total axle capacity.

A triple axle trailer can carry more weight than a dual axle of similar axle specs.  At some point it becomes more practical to add a third axle then to increase the size/capacity of the individual axles to stay with two.

The downside is that the tires tend to scrub in turns because you are pivoting on one axle and the other two get dragged sideways. There is a similar effect on dual axles, but much less pronounced than on a triple. You also have more tires to buy when replacement time comes.

I was also told that the three axles tend to cause more stress/strain to the camper (in turning) than the two axles due to the pronounced scrubing.  I truly appreciate all y'alls input on the questions I have posted.  It has been a tremendous help in deciding which camper to safely purchase. 

Any 5ers three axles will be too heavy to haul with the 2500...period.