FrontrangeRVer
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2008
- Posts
- 1,433
John.....not bad for a $1,000 fix! 
Fuel filler neck replacement is underway :-)
- Thread starter John Canfield
- Start date
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John Canfield
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Harry B said:
Harry - yeah - they repaired it reasonably well, but I need to give it more TLC. The repair isn't quite 'there.'
Mark - pretty difficult to cost-justify the project
Edit to correct spelling...
Kevin
Well-known member
do you know if the vent location is in the top of the tank or right beside the fill tube?kevin
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John Canfield
Site Team
kevin said:
My vent is on the side near the top of the tank (not to mention it is 1/2.") New tanks have a 7/8" vent coming out of the tank top.
judway
Well-known member
Do you have more than one vent plug on top? It seems to me that I saw several on the Freightliner chassis at the shows. If there are more than one you might parallel several into a manifold. Just one more would give you more than the 5/8".
Wayne
Wayne
SargeW
Site Team
Hey John,
A question about the fill ups you did before the repair. When you were filling the tank before and the fuel handle would shut off, what did the fuel gauge read? Did the gauge read full, or did you show room in the tank on the gauge? Also, when you were filling the tank did the fuel ever rise to the mouth of the filler tube, or was it the foaming fuel that caused the shut off?
I have been checking the fills on my rig lately, and it has always filled the same. It clicks off, then I click it back on slow till it shuts off again. Then I can usually see the fuel in the filler neck. The gauge will always rest on the full line on the gauge. But you have got me wondering if there was still room in the tank, or if it is really full. The reason that I question that is that I ran the tank down farther than I usually do the last few fills. When the needle on the gauge would just touch the red warning level on the 1/8 remaining part of the gauge, I would take on about 60 gallons to bring the gauge back to full. It would also pretty closely match the gallons used on the VMSpc display. However, that would mean that the tank should still have about 30 gallons + or - remaining in the tank. Could that be right? That is what has got me wondering if the tank had been consistently under filled, or does it just have a large low end reserve? The tank is susposed to be a 90 gallon tank.
Your thoughts??
Sarge
A question about the fill ups you did before the repair. When you were filling the tank before and the fuel handle would shut off, what did the fuel gauge read? Did the gauge read full, or did you show room in the tank on the gauge? Also, when you were filling the tank did the fuel ever rise to the mouth of the filler tube, or was it the foaming fuel that caused the shut off?
I have been checking the fills on my rig lately, and it has always filled the same. It clicks off, then I click it back on slow till it shuts off again. Then I can usually see the fuel in the filler neck. The gauge will always rest on the full line on the gauge. But you have got me wondering if there was still room in the tank, or if it is really full. The reason that I question that is that I ran the tank down farther than I usually do the last few fills. When the needle on the gauge would just touch the red warning level on the 1/8 remaining part of the gauge, I would take on about 60 gallons to bring the gauge back to full. It would also pretty closely match the gallons used on the VMSpc display. However, that would mean that the tank should still have about 30 gallons + or - remaining in the tank. Could that be right? That is what has got me wondering if the tank had been consistently under filled, or does it just have a large low end reserve? The tank is susposed to be a 90 gallon tank.
Your thoughts??
Sarge
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John Canfield
Site Team
judway said:
Wayne - there are two
SargeW said:
Sarge - different characteristics. When my pump clicks off, the analog (Freightliner) fuel gauge will always read short of full. When I trickle in the fast few gallons and I see fuel standing in the filler neck, we are plumb full. The Freightliner gauge is reading full and I reset VMSpc to a full tank of fuel.
My analog fuel gauge is not linear or accurate except while indicating completely full. When the needle is pointing to 1/2 tank, I have 60 gallons according to VMSpc. At 1/4 tank, I have about 30 gallons remaining. When my information center alarms low fuel, I discovered that 2% fuel remaining (should be 2 gallons) actually means about 12 gallons.
The big unknown is usable fuel - it's been a long time since I have flown, but I believe the fuel tanks on aircraft are calibrated in usable fuel and not gross tank capacity. It would be nice if the Freightliner gauge was calibrated accurately and the warning actually indicated remaining usable fuel.
SargeW
Site Team
That's great info John, thanks. It was a little surprising to see the needle touching the red area on the dash gauge, but the VMSpc still showing 30 gallons Now that's a heck of a reserve : But it does sound like I am getting a full fill, so that makes me feel better. I can deal with the other part. One way I thought of testing was to try to start the generator. I believe the fuel pick up for the generator sits up higher in the tank than the engine pick up. If it starts and runs there must be sufficient fuel. Does that make sense to you?
Now that's a heck of a reserve : But it does sound like I am getting a full fill, so that makes me feel better. I can deal with the other part. One way I thought of testing was to try to start the generator. I believe the fuel pick up for the generator sits up higher in the tank than the engine pick up. If it starts and runs there must be sufficient fuel. Does that make sense to you?
Fuel gauges are often unreliable. We use the odometer miles traveled to determine when to refuel.
The generator pickup tube is between 1/4 and 1/3 of a tank, so if the generator starts and runs, you have at least that much fuel. However, if the fuel level is below the pickup for the generator, you'll run the fuel line dry and may have problems starting it later on. I don't recommend that procedure for checking your low fuel level.
The generator pickup tube is between 1/4 and 1/3 of a tank, so if the generator starts and runs, you have at least that much fuel. However, if the fuel level is below the pickup for the generator, you'll run the fuel line dry and may have problems starting it later on. I don't recommend that procedure for checking your low fuel level.
SargeW
Site Team
Oops..... good point....
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John Canfield
Site Team
Good point, Ned.
I have run my genny out of fuel before and it was about at the 25 gallon level -+. Priming it was easy (on my Onan Quiet Diesel 7.5, anyway) - you simply hold down the start/stop switch in the stop position for a couple of minutes. The fuel pump runs and the engine self-bleeds.
Tom & Ned will appreciate this boating story.. we closed on our sailboat and we had some friends on board to help deliver the boat from Miami to Cape Canaveral. We loaded the boat with provisions, clothes, etc. Everybody was excited and ready to go. I started the engine to let it warm up while we got ready to cast off on our maiden voyage; after a few minutes the engine died much to everybody's surprise.
The former owner had shut the fuel switch off before he left the boat. I ran the stinker out of fuel the very first day (first hour?) of ownership. That old Westerbeke didn't self-bleed either. I got out the engine manual and went through bleeding procedures - had to start at the injector pump and work my way to each injector. It had a manual pump so I had to lift up a little lever to push a shot of fuel through. Took about 20-30 minutes to get it primed. After that experience, I added an electric fuel pump.
I have run my genny out of fuel before and it was about at the 25 gallon level -+. Priming it was easy (on my Onan Quiet Diesel 7.5, anyway) - you simply hold down the start/stop switch in the stop position for a couple of minutes. The fuel pump runs and the engine self-bleeds.
Tom & Ned will appreciate this boating story.. we closed on our sailboat and we had some friends on board to help deliver the boat from Miami to Cape Canaveral. We loaded the boat with provisions, clothes, etc. Everybody was excited and ready to go. I started the engine to let it warm up while we got ready to cast off on our maiden voyage; after a few minutes the engine died much to everybody's surprise.
The former owner had shut the fuel switch off before he left the boat. I ran the stinker out of fuel the very first day (first hour?) of ownership. That old Westerbeke didn't self-bleed either. I got out the engine manual and went through bleeding procedures - had to start at the injector pump and work my way to each injector. It had a manual pump so I had to lift up a little lever to push a shot of fuel through. Took about 20-30 minutes to get it primed. After that experience, I added an electric fuel pump.
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John Canfield
Site Team
Fueling experience #3:
We took on 65 gallons today at a truck stop with the typical high-flow truck pump. This time we fueled the left side. As a test, I placed the nozzle completely in the filler neck and placed the handle in the maximum on position with the 'keeper' and anxiously monitored the progress. The fuel was going in the tank at a high rate, but I have no idea of how many GPM it was.
The pump handle tripped off at 47 gallons pumped with very little splash-back. So we were 18 gallons shy of a full tank, but I was actually pleased I got that much fuel in that quickly. Duplicating my last experience, getting the last 18 gallons in did seem to go faster with the new filler necks.
At this point I am concluding the new filler necks have improved fueling, but it is a little difficult to justify the cost-benefit ratio. If the pump tripped off at maybe five or ten gallons shy of a full tank, I would feel much better about this. So I must conclude I only have part of the solution implemented, the other part is the improved tank with the larger diameter vent.
We took on 65 gallons today at a truck stop with the typical high-flow truck pump. This time we fueled the left side. As a test, I placed the nozzle completely in the filler neck and placed the handle in the maximum on position with the 'keeper' and anxiously monitored the progress. The fuel was going in the tank at a high rate, but I have no idea of how many GPM it was.
The pump handle tripped off at 47 gallons pumped with very little splash-back. So we were 18 gallons shy of a full tank, but I was actually pleased I got that much fuel in that quickly. Duplicating my last experience, getting the last 18 gallons in did seem to go faster with the new filler necks.
At this point I am concluding the new filler necks have improved fueling, but it is a little difficult to justify the cost-benefit ratio. If the pump tripped off at maybe five or ten gallons shy of a full tank, I would feel much better about this. So I must conclude I only have part of the solution implemented, the other part is the improved tank with the larger diameter vent.
Kevin
Well-known member
They told me that the new tanks still have a 1/2 vent tube? just a different location. ???
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John Canfield
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The Freightliner tech who did our filler neck replacements has also changed out two tanks in the campaign. He said the new tanks have 7/8" vents directly on top of the tank.
I have the same coach as John. I had mine modified this week and have not had a chance to check to see if it is better. I only did the driver's side because the passenger's side required a lot more work. I think I better check my slide to see if it works properly.
The cost was just over $700.
The cost was just over $700.
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John Canfield
Site Team
Hey there Manuel! I'm very glad to see you over here - have a look around and check out the library, etc.
Be sure and let us know what your fueling experiences are with the new neck.
Be sure and let us know what your fueling experiences are with the new neck.
Tom
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FWIW we've had a fuel fill issue on our Monaco since we bought it new. Several forum members confirmed they had the same issue with their Monaco products. I could never fill the tank and, coupled with the inaccurate fuel gauge, I was paranoid about it. I'd make way too many unnecessary fuel stops, resulting in only 40 to 60 gallons being added at a time into a 100 gallon tank. The top-ups were often 10-20 gallons less than my mental calculations based on mileage, adding to my paranoia.
When I got to tour Monaco's Roadmaster chassis factory, I understood the issue, or at least a big part of it; The fill tube is inclined at a very low angle, almost horizontal, so, fuel comes out the fill tube before the tank is actually "full". The other thing I came to understand was the fact that diesel foams, preventing complete filling. Backing off the fill rate for the latter part of the fill allowed me to put an additional 10-15 gallons in that otherwise wouldn't be possible.
I subsequently installed one of the VMSpc units laying around in the garage and installed the VMSpc software on my PC. I found my calculations were within 0.5-1.0 gallon of what the ECM was reporting, and quit worrying about it.
When I got to tour Monaco's Roadmaster chassis factory, I understood the issue, or at least a big part of it; The fill tube is inclined at a very low angle, almost horizontal, so, fuel comes out the fill tube before the tank is actually "full". The other thing I came to understand was the fact that diesel foams, preventing complete filling. Backing off the fill rate for the latter part of the fill allowed me to put an additional 10-15 gallons in that otherwise wouldn't be possible.
I subsequently installed one of the VMSpc units laying around in the garage and installed the VMSpc software on my PC. I found my calculations were within 0.5-1.0 gallon of what the ECM was reporting, and quit worrying about it.
Kevin
Well-known member
did you call in your vin to see if you could get a fix at no cost?(new tank)ms911 said:
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John Canfield
Site Team
Tom - that's very interesting. We're not the only ones with the issue then. I used VMSpc early on so I never was too worried about how much fuel we had on board - it was just the frustration of getting the last 20 gallons in.
Kevin - Freightliner can tell you if you are a candidate for the filler necks or fuel tank. If you are in warranty, you don't pay for parts or labor. Out of warranty, you pay for parts, Freightliner covers labor. (I'm not clear if the warranty requirement is the Winnebago house warranty, or the Freightliner chassis warranty.)
Kevin - Freightliner can tell you if you are a candidate for the filler necks or fuel tank. If you are in warranty, you don't pay for parts or labor. Out of warranty, you pay for parts, Freightliner covers labor. (I'm not clear if the warranty requirement is the Winnebago house warranty, or the Freightliner chassis warranty.)
Harry B
Well-known member
The charge for the filler neck parts is an issue regarding the one year warranty that Winnebago provides.
Where I am having a problem with this issue is that I brought the problem to the Winnie dealer's attention from day one that I owned the coach (didn't receive a full tank of diesel at delivery) and on two following service appointments (so it is documented) while the coach was in warranty. I was told several methods to circumvent the problem by both the dealer and Winnebago of which none resolved the issue. Yet now Winnebago states that I am out of warranty so there will be a charge for the parts even though it was not addressed during the warranty period.
I am however beginning to question if the problem does not solely belong with FCCC. Replacing the filler necks appears to still not allow a tank to be filled entirely or within couple of gallons of full without clicking off the filler nozzle. Does anyone know the change in filling the tank when the fuel tank has been swapped out?
Perhaps by finger pointing between FCCC and Winnebago, the hope is that owners of coaches that are looking to get this problem resolved will eventually give up.
Where I am having a problem with this issue is that I brought the problem to the Winnie dealer's attention from day one that I owned the coach (didn't receive a full tank of diesel at delivery) and on two following service appointments (so it is documented) while the coach was in warranty. I was told several methods to circumvent the problem by both the dealer and Winnebago of which none resolved the issue. Yet now Winnebago states that I am out of warranty so there will be a charge for the parts even though it was not addressed during the warranty period.
I am however beginning to question if the problem does not solely belong with FCCC. Replacing the filler necks appears to still not allow a tank to be filled entirely or within couple of gallons of full without clicking off the filler nozzle. Does anyone know the change in filling the tank when the fuel tank has been swapped out?
Perhaps by finger pointing between FCCC and Winnebago, the hope is that owners of coaches that are looking to get this problem resolved will eventually give up.
