CA Smog Check woes

The friendliest place on the web for anyone with an RV or an interest in RVing!
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.

DonTom

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 21, 2005
Posts
13,080
Location
Auburn, CA or Reno, NV
The used RV dealer who sold me my 2000 Tioga a couple of months ago claims they made a mistake. They forgot to do a CA smog test. Well, I have been keeping the RV here at my Reno, NV  home, but made arrangements to go get it smogged in Truckee, CA today.  The dealer said they would pay for the smog test.

The dealer and CA DMV recommended this place. So we drove it to Truckee and then they (smog test place) discovered during the last test it was a "gross polluter" so they said they could not smog it, but a "Gold Shield" (needed for gross polluters)  and "enhanced"  (means they can smog it for a different county) place in Kings Beach, CA could.

Carfax shows it was a gross polluter, but it also  shows it as being repaired and smog test completed and it passed last December 2008, just a month before I purchased the RV. But neither CA DMV nor any other place has any record of it passing.

So we go to King's Beach and have it tested. It fails, but not by much. But it's still a "gross polluter" because it has not been TOTALLY repaired.  The smog test place says since it failed, they canNOT fix it because it's the dealer's responsibility and they broke the law by selling it to me without completing the smog test.

Now, I have to call the dealer when they are open and see what they say. I might just have to drive it back to them and let them deal with it, as they are supposed to by CA state law.

We wasted most of the day with this, along with several gallons of gasoline. Don't mind that so much, but I do wonder if I will ever get this thing registered.

BTW, I cannot register it here in NV until it's complete as registered in my name in  CA.


-Don- Reno, NV
 
The State of California is quite specific. The seller is required to provide the buyer with a valid smog inspection certification at the time of the sale or transfer. Smog certifications are good for 90 days from the date of issuance.

The CA VC  Sec. 27156 states in subsection (a) No person shall operate or leave standing upon a highway a motor vehicle that is a gross polluter, as defined in Section 39032.5 of the Health and Safety Code

Throw the mess back to the dealer, furnish a valid certificate or take the vehicle back and refund your money.  Otherwise, you are liable to be driven from pillar to post trying to validate the title to a 'gross polluter'. 

The dealer should have done all this before he delivered the vehicle. 
 
Carl L said:
The State of California is quite specific. The seller is required to provide the buyer with a valid smog inspection certification at the time of the sale or transfer. Smog certifications are good for 90 days from the date of issuance.

Does that mean there's some paper that I should be looking for whenever I purchase a vehicle in CA?

Carl L said:
The CA VC  Sec. 27156 states in subsection (a) No person shall operate or leave standing upon a highway a motor vehicle that is a gross polluter, as defined in Section 39032.5 of the Health and Safety Code

Throw the mess back to the dealer, furnish a valid certificate or take the vehicle back and refund your money.   Otherwise, you are liable to be driven from pillar to post trying to validate the title to a 'gross polluter'.

I am happy with the vehicle otherwise and I have it fixed up the way I want, so I don't want a refund, I just want this smog problem fixed somehow. They (RV dealer) are open later today (Saturday) so I will give them a call.

From CarFax:

07/16/2005  California
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Tracy, CA Title issued or updated
New owner reported
07/19/2005 Vehicle Repair Center Vehicle serviced
ECM repaired
07/19/2005 94,627 California
Inspection Station
Manteca, CA Passed emissions inspection
09/06/2005 95,992 Service Plan Co. Service contract claim
Vehicle serviced
Electrical sys. serviced
07/08/2006 96,569 Service Plan Co. Service contract claim
Vehicle serviced
Engine serviced
08/03/2007 97,537 California
Inspection Station Failed emissions inspection
Designated GROSS POLLUTER
10/08/2008 100,247 California
Inspection Station Failed emissions inspection
10/22/2008 100,271 California
Inspection Station Failed emissions inspection
12/17/2008 Vehicle Repair Center Vehicle serviced
PCV Valve repaired
PCV hose repaired
Spark plugs repaired
Ignition wires repaired
CAP/Rotor repaired
Initial timing repaired
Fuel filter repaired
Air filter repaired
12/17/2008 California
Inspection Station Passed emissions inspection
12/22/2008 Livermore Ford Lincoln Mercury
Livermore, CA
925-294-7700
www.livermoreautogroup.com
ww.livermoreautogro
up.com Vehicle serviced

   
Carl L said:
The dealer should have done all this before he delivered the vehicle. 

But maybe they did. Look at the copy & paste from the carfax above. What do you think it means where  it says "Inspection Station Passed emissions inspection" on 12/22/2008 ? But DMV has no record of it. Perhaps the shop could not deal legally with gross polluters. But regardless, if that's the case, the RV dealer broke the law.

And the above work was done. I can see that it has a new air filter, wires,  plugs, etc.

I will drive the RV back to SSF tomorrow as it will be closer to the dealer. I assume they want to fix this problem at least as much as I do as they cannot legally even sell it to me. However, they already have my money which might slow things down a lot :mad:.

BTW, I notice two catalytic converters under the RV, one on each side of the exhaust.  One looks like new, the other looks very old (I bet it's an original with 100K miles on it).  I have a feeling that the old catalytic converter is the problem.


-Don- Reno, NV
 
You should have received a 'Passing Emissions' Certificate from the dealer upon sale.  However, he may have, incorrectly, relied on the Car-Fax report and assumed DMV had the inspection on file.  That does not relieve the dealership of its responsibility of selling a vehicle with a valid certificate.  I would also give Livermore Auto Group an call and see what they have to say about it.  It may well be that the vehicle did pass at that time, but somehow the paperwork was not electronically transmitted to DMV.  They should have a record of all the vehicles smog checked on the day in question.  Even so, the vehicle will still require a current smog check and it is 100% selling dealer responsibility.  You are in the driving seat...make demands to make you whole with out of pocket expenses.  Otherwise report them (possibly both) to DMV.

BT
 
Get a PO box in Incline Village and register it in Nevada. Cheaper registration and no smog test required.
 
Buddy Tott said:
You should have received a 'Passing Emissions' Certificate from the dealer upon sale.   However, he may have, incorrectly, relied on the Car-Fax report and assumed DMV had the inspection on file.  That does not relieve the dealership of its responsibility of selling a vehicle with a valid certificate.  I would also give Livermore Auto Group an call and see what they have to say about it.  It may well be that the vehicle did pass at that time, but somehow the paperwork was not electronically transmitted to DMV.   They should have a record of all the vehicles smog checked on the day in question.   Even so, the vehicle will still require a current smog check and it is 100% selling dealer responsibility.   You are in the driving seat...make demands to make you whole with out of pocket expenses.   Otherwise report them (possibly both) to DMV.

BT

They didn't even know about the CarFax passing. I told them about it after I discovered it on CarFax. I faxed the report to them, but it did no good. They got in contact with the place that did the smog work and got back to me. They  told me that they told them that  "they had a problem with their smog machine that day." And then they asked me if I could go smog it myself and they would pay for it. But in the end, it only made for more complications.

For the smog test I had done at Kings Beach yestersday, it was idle HC that failed. Max is 150 (ppm). Average is 39. My RV tested at 190.

The RV dealer is open today (Saturday) at 1000 hrs. I will be able to call them in an hour and see how they wish to handle this.


-Don- Reno, NV

 
seilerbird said:
Get a PO box in Incline Village and register it in Nevada. Cheaper registration and no smog test required.

It has to be completed in CA under my name before I can register it in NV. But there MIGHT be a way to do it if I wanted to pay the sale's tax and NV registration fees all over again to NV. I plan on having the RV registered in NV as soon as the CA registration expires as the RV will be here most of the time anyway.

BTW, about half of my many vehicles are registered in NV, as I always keep at least two cars and two motorcycles here at my Reno home. The smog test here in this part of Washoe County is fast and cheap, but required on all vehicles every year. I assume the RV would pass the smog requirements here in NV without any problem.


-Don-  Reno, NV​
 
Don, I have the answer.

  Since you seem to like to live in warm climes, just sell everything you have in the West, move all your vehicles and belongings to Florida. No smog test here, taxes are low and registrations are low. What more can you ask.  ;D

  Not only that but you can buy my (2000) 4-BR/ 3 bath home for only 4 times what I paid for it; such a bargain.  ::)

  Just trying to help you out.  ;)

carson FL



 
carson said:
Don, I have the answer.

  Since you seem to like to live in warm climes, just sell everything you have in the West, move all your vehicles and belongings to Florida. No smog test here, taxes are low and registrations are low. What more can you ask.  ;D

   Not only that but you can buy my (2000) 4-BR/ 3 bath home for only 4 times what I paid for it; such a bargain.  ::)

   Just trying to help you out.  ;)

carson FL

I assume it has to be completed in CA before I can re-register it anywhere. Remember, the RV is NOT now legally registered in my name as the transfer has not been completed in CA.

BTW, this part of NV is quite cold this time of the year. The name of this area of extreme NW Reno (less than a mile from the CA border) is Cold Springs Valley. And it can get well below freezing this time of year. Right now it's 35F with a real feel of 31F. Here, right at my house, it is  5,050 feet in elevation with a clear view of the snow on all the mountains outside the window behind this computer. Right now, I have a clear view of snowy Babbitt Peak  (8,760 feet elevation).

It's almost time to call the RV place, They will be open in a couple of minutes.


-Don- Reno, NV






 
Ok, Don, I understand. I guess the deal is off.

   I live in the mountains here too, my elevation is 151' above seal level, very high in Florida. Had frost here too this winter and lost a lot of my plants; but I understand.  ;D

  -30- I'll stop pestering  :)

carson FL
 
Well, I called them and sort of got the answer I was expecting. It's Saturday, nobody there other than sales people. I have to call back on Monday when the people who deal with registrations are there.

-Don-​
 
When I bought my motorhome in Texas I got a 15 day temporary pass ($5) so I could drive it to Nevada to register it here. I don't see why you would have to register it in California.
 
DonTom said:
Well, I called them and sort of got the answer I was expecting. It's Saturday, nobody there other than sales people. I have to call back on Monday when the people who deal with registrations are there.

-Don-​

It is getting time to report them to the DMV.  I would not let them drift beyond Monday -- bring it to a head with them quickly.  Even if you have it all fixed up neat, it can easily become a major legal pita.  I am suprised that a 2000 vehicle had become a gross polluter by 2005.  My 1995 Bronco has passed its smog tests in the LA Basin easilly for 14 years.  The last run was not even near limits on any criteria.    Your unit has a lemony smell about it.

 
seilerbird said:
When I bought my motorhome in Texas I got a 15 day temporary pass ($5) so I could drive it to Nevada to register it here. I don't see why you would have to register it in California.

I want it fixed right anyway, so I am glad I did not have them drive it to NV for me to accept delivery. That was an option I had, if I wanted to pay a couple of hundred bucks for them to drive it to the state line. Of course, then, I had no clue about this problem. I do plan on registering it in NV (where it will be parked most of the time) after the CA registration expires.

Besides, it is my understanding that it is illegal for them to sell the vehicle before it passes a CA smog test, regardless of where the vehicle is going.

BTW,  it's probably not a catalytic converter problem as I previously thought by noticing one of them is old and the other new. I drove the RV back here to South San Francisco and at about 6,000 feet in elevation, I got a "Service Engine Soon" light. When I got home, I checked to see what the OBD2 code was. It was an 0171 (system too lean) that was current and had a 0304 (cylinder four misfire) in memory.

I was somewhat surprised by a "too lean" condition coming on at high elevation. The code 0304 must have been from before I owned this RV as I had no other MIL's  (Malfunction Indicator Light) other than this 0171 since I owed it.

The RV runs very well. Could not run any better. Seems like it has a lot of guts even going up hill at 7,000 feet elevation.

I drove it here because I may have to drive it to the main office of the RV dealer in Livermore, CA  this week, which is much closer to this home. They might even come to pick it up from here. They offered to do that before they discovered I was keeping it at my Reno home.

This Monday, I will talk to them and see how they wish to handle this. It's a bigger problem than they expected, as it failed the smog test and is still a "gross polluter". A Gross Polluter" stays as such until it totally passes the smog test and this limits who is allowed to repair and retest it.

I hope I didn't complicate things by the work I did on it, such as adding a cruise control, tachometer, backup camera, keyless entry and changing the radio to a stock radio with CD player (the after market one it came with was a very mickey-mouse install) and many other such things. It's obvious I have done work around the engine, especially with the after market cruise control install.


-Don- South San Francisco, CA
 
I hope I didn't complicate things by the work I did on it, such as adding a cruise control, tachometer, backup camera, keyless entry and changing the radio to a stock radio with CD player (the after market one it came with was a very mickey-mouse install) and many other such things. It's obvious I have done work around the engine, especially with the after market cruise control install.

It may be a dead loss to you, if the unit can never be titled, but none of that stuff would affect smog ratings.   I would not even mention it.  That dealer owes you a title and must deliver the smog certification for the transfer to occur.   Take it to him and leave it there till he fulfills his contract.
 
Carl L said:
It may be a dead loss to you, if the unit can never be titled, but none of that stuff would affect smog ratings.   I would not even mention it.  That dealer owes you a title and must deliver the smog certification for the transfer to occur.   Take it to him and leave it there till he fulfills his contract.

Well, I know that, but do they? For an example, the cruise control I added has to tap into the vacuum line. But it's connected the vacuum reservoir  which is well after the one way air valve.

But get this. The day after I purchased the RV, I was checking things out and discovered I had no heater vent heat. Everything, including the vehicle A/C was blowing out the defogger only regardless of what was selected.

So I took the engine cover off and discovered the only vacuum port from the intake manifold WAS PLUGGED right there!!!

So I went out and purchased some vacuum hose and ran a hose from the engine to the one way vacuum check valve and then everything worked normally.

However, I checked to see if the vacuum line might go to somewhere else before the vacuum valve. I didn't see a MAP sensor or anything else.

I odered the $260.00 worth of factory service manuals (for the 2000 Chevy Express Van)  later, which are now all (four fat manuals) at my other home. But I do now wonder if there's a map sensor hidden somewhere that I did not notice that is supposed to see the full engine vacuum. 

But other than the recent too lean condition, I got no MIL light. I would think if the vacuum was missing to the map sensor I would get some type of "check engine" light right away. Besides, the things runs perfect at all elevations. I wonder if there's another design that replaces the map sensor that requires full engine vacuum or if there is really a MAP sensor that I have not found.

Regardless, it should make no difference as they sold it to me illegally as a gross polutter and THEY had the only vacuum port plugged!

I can only guess why the only vacuum port was plugged (with a cap right on the port) when I purchased the RV.



-Don- SSF, CA

 
Today, I gave the RV place a call and got in contact with their office  that does registrations and told them my story and how the RV they sold me is a gross polluter. The first guy I spoke with yelled at me "THAT"S IMPOSSIBLE, WE DON'T SELL GROSS POLLUTERS!!!"  Then I gave him the name of the woman who called me last week and from that point on they were all very apologetic and were in a big hurry to solve this problem.

They made arrangements with their service shop, which is 80 miles from here, to come over and pick up the RV. It seemed they got here in less than an hour!

The service shop called me to let me know they are working on it right now, which is only a few hours after they picked it up. They said they expect it to be repaired by tomorrow and they will give me a call to tell me what they did to fix it after it passes (with the data transmitted to DMV).

I told them about the vacuum problem and that I didn't see a MAP (Manifold Air Pressure) sensor when I ran the vacuum lines so the heater and vehicle A/C would work correctly. But perhaps it uses a MAF (Mass Air Flow)  sensor that does not require engine vacuum. He also didn't know off hand, but will check into it. When I check for parts on line, it seems they may have changed from a MAP to a MAF in the middle of year 2000, or else it uses both! However, I think if vacuum is missing from a MAP sensor the engine would run very rich. But the OBD2 code I got (0171) means the system is too lean, so that's most likely not the problem.

Anyway, it's now all their problem and it seems they are in a much bigger hurry to get it fixed than I am!


-Don- South SF, CA
 
Well, isn't that good news!  Hope all will be well before week's end.

ArdraF
 
Excellent.  The problem is back where it should be.

By the way, Don, do I know you from the old CIS California Forum?
 
Back
Top Bottom