Workhorse Chassis Brake Failures: Boo Hoo!

Want to complain about Workhorse brakes issues at the Workhorse Chassis Forum? Here's what you'll eventually get:

You have been banned for the following reason:
On further reflection we have determined you are too disruptive to the community.

Date the ban will be lifted: Never

Gee, Boo Hoo! I see it as a badge of honor that it upsets them so that I didn't follow the 'it's got to be you and not Workhorse' herd...

See, they don't like it when you continually point out the the Workhorse Ambassador and a few minions are posting false and inaccurate information. My favorite to date has to be the Ambassador, after the last year or so of stating that owners don't drive the MH enough, don't drive it properly, don't maintain it enough, need to change the brake fluid more often, need to lube the slide pins more often, essentially blaming the owners for any failure and never acknowledging Workhorse might have a defect or the fact that Workhorse has never contacted owners about this safety issue and made any preemptive suggestions to prevent failures, seems to be doing an about face by stating in a recent post: "One thing that I don't expect to see would be a determination that there is "no engineering deficiency." I guess everyone is supposed to pretend they forgot what this same person has been stating over and over, for the last year and half, or so...

Looks like maybe the Workhorse Forum 'experts' know that the NHTSA is going to put some of the blame back on Workhorse Chassis Corporation and they don't want me to be able to question all the nonsense that has been posted over there by the 'experts' who are so, so wrong...

I'm one that certainly hopes that after all this time, the NHTSA has done a complete and total investigation and puts this issue back on Workhorse Chassis and Bosch brakes, and off the backs of the owners...

Richard et al,

Workhorse chassis owners have been so disruptive to this Forum that we've had no choice but to gag you all. We were kind enough not to ban you from the forum, just prevented you from posting.

Nah, just kidding. Wish I'd thought of that yesterday (4/1)  ;D

Tom said:

Richard et al,

Workhorse chassis owners have been so disruptive to this Forum that we've had no choice but to gag you all. We were kind enough not to ban you from the forum, just prevented you from posting.

Nah, just kidding. Wish I'd thought of that yesterday (4/1)  ;D

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Actually, not much is said here about the Workhorse brake issues... as far as April's Fool Day, I was going to post that I found a fix to the brake issues and it costs $1 but then thought I shouldn't make light of the problem.  ;D

Richard...don't fret over the banning over there.  (Has your IP address been banned also?)  You aren't the only one who has been banned because you questioned them.  (FrontrangeRVer over there...but have posted my last post there FOREVER) 

I totally agree about the Workhorse Ambassador over there....please take his responses with a grain of salt if you want to keep your sanity.     His main job is to promote Workhorse and the sponsors, and he does a good job of that.  I have said for months now, that the bias and cheerleading on that forum bordered on rediculous, and am glad to have found a good home here.     HERE is a recent post at another forum, asking about some Workhorse issues, and as you can see, there are several who "warned" the OP about the "going ons" at the Workhorse forum at irv2. 

Also, don't get too upset at Workhorse dragging their feet about this brake issue, as it will turn out bad for them, but good for us. (hopefully).  IMHO, Workhorse has lied and lied about 1. The brake problems, and 2. When they have a fix for it.  I wouldn't believe anything that comes out of Allan Steiche's mouth if he was standing right in front of me, talking to me.....but that's just me.  :

It's all good over here, and I have made many new friends here, and like I said in the other Workhorse Chassis Brake Problems thread, I will report what comes out of the NHTSA investigation the moment I hear it. 

Thanks for posting here Richard!  Come join us over in the Winnebago forum here also.....moderated by John Canfield....EX irv2er also!  There are lots of us over there!  

Oh...by the way TOM:  NOT FUNNY!  Kidding...kinda funny....a bit...... ;D

but then thought I shouldn't make light of the problem.

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I probably should have done the same and not posted it. Just my strange sense of humor. Personally, I'm hoping for a favorable outcome acceptable to all concerned, especially if it removes a potential safety issue. Getting NHTSA involved was a smart move, even if they do move kinda slow.

I will take this opportunity to remind folks to check our forum rules (click the Rules button above), in case they haven't done so. Sorry that they're a bit long winded, but they evolved (grew) over time, and I have a back burner project to simplify them. The closest relevant paragraph is quoted below, although I haven't seen anyone violate the rule in these discussions. Stick to the facts, as folks have done on this subject, and nobody can say anything.

FWIW I did have one campground owner say he was  thinking of suing the forum (me?) because some guy posted bad stuff about the business and the owners. Nobody told me I'd have to deal with this stuff when I was handed the baton to run the forum 

Remember that we'll set John Canfield on anyone who violates the rules  ;D

From the forum rules:

Attempts To Organize Boycotts
Please do not attempt to use the RV Forum as a platform to organize a boycott against a company. Rants against a manufacturer, dealer, or repair shop for real or perceived mistreatment are generally not acceptable.

Voyage1 said:

Richard...don't fret over the banning over there.  (Has your IP address been banned also?)  You aren't the only one who has been banned because you questioned them.  (FrontrangeRVer over there...but have posted my last post there FOREVER)

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Yes, my IP was also banned but even so, anyone can still read everything over there, just can't post, so anytime I want a laugh or read mis-inforamtion, it's all there. And I was smart enough to copy all the PM's that were sent to me, including the ones before the software change and those all disappeared, like the one where the ambassador pleaded his case with me because Workhorse is the sponsor and he has to walk a fine line so as not to lose that ad income to keep the forum open.

I totally agree about the Workhorse Ambassador over there....please take his responses with a grain of salt if you want to keep your sanity.     His main job is to promote Workhorse and the sponsors, and he does a good job of that.  I have said for months now, that the bias and cheerleading on that forum bordered on rediculous, and am glad to have found a good home here.     HERE is a recent post at another forum, asking about some Workhorse issues, and as you can see, there are several who "warned" the OP about the "going ons" at the Workhorse forum at irv2.

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What I like best is if you go back and read his posts, starting a year or so ago, he clearly challenged people like me in taking Workhorse to task, but yet seems to have back-pedaled the last couple of weeks; is it because he knows something from Workhorse and that it doesn't look too good?

Also, don't get too upset at Workhorse dragging their feet about this brake issue, as it will turn out bad for them, but good for us. (hopefully).  IMHO, Workhorse has lied and lied about 1. The brake problems, and 2. When they have a fix for it.  I wouldn't believe anything that comes out of Allan Steiche's mouth if he was standing right in front of me, talking to me.....but that's just me.  :

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I'm hoping and expecting that the NHTSA investigation will lay this issue at Workhorse's hoves, ah, feet and that all affected chassis will be inspected and parts replaced as necessary, with other owners that have already paid for repairs out of pocket to be reimbursed in full, especially if those repairs were done at a Workhorse repair facility. If that happens, I'm sure we'll get quite the line how Workhorse values us as customers and our safety has always been their number one concern, blah, blah, blah...

It's all good over here, and I have made many new friends here, and like I said in the other Workhorse Chassis Brake Problems thread, I will report what comes out of the NHTSA investigation the moment I hear it. 

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I like it here too but know that some of the members here are from over there, some even changing the screen names, but I know them quite well from over there...

Thanks for posting here Richard!  Come join us over in the Winnebago forum here also.....moderated by John Canfield....EX irv2er also!  There are lots of us over there!  

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I do plan on visitng threre more; I have pictures of specific items that I used in threads over there that I have removed from my server, so I think most of those images can't be viewed there anymore, but will slowly bring those threads over here with the pictures, such as a heavy-duty tool that I have made to remove wheelliners.

Oh...by the way TOM:  NOT FUNNY!  Kidding...kinda funny....a bit...... ;D

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Richard,

Hope you don't mind that I edited your message to fix the quote problems. I didn't remove any of your content, but did remove the bold (feel free to add it back in).

The problem there is that people start ragging on workhorse.. The issue and then they start ragging that Workhorse does not respond to their posted questions and such.

Well, the issue is before NHTSA and frankly it would not be proper for Workhorse to respond,  There is a proper way to complain, fill out a NHTSA complaint form.

Ragging in the forum does nobody any good cause there is NOTHING you can say that has not been said.

I do not have problems, Thus I do not have complaints, Still, I avoid those threads cause.. What I want to know at this point is what NHTSA is doing, and when/if a recall is issued.  Till then..  There really is nothing more to say on either side.

IMHO any responsible manufacture receiving reports of safety issue such as brake issues should have already addressed the issue themselves and not leave it up to the customers to make complaints to the FEDs.  I am quite sure that with the number of complaints I have seen voiced here that a recall will be forthcoming form the FEDs.

Tom said:

Richard,

Hope you don't mind that I edited your message to fix the quote problems. I didn't remove any of your content, but did remove the bold (feel free to add it back in).

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Looks good, Tom. I was trying to make it easier to read but your way looks a lot better! Thanks-

John In Detroit said:

The problem there is that people start ragging on workhorse.. The issue and then they start ragging that Workhorse does not respond to their posted questions and such.

Well, the issue is before NHTSA and frankly it would not be proper for Workhorse to respond,  There is a proper way to complain, fill out a NHTSA complaint form.

Ragging in the forum does nobody any good cause there is NOTHING you can say that has not been said.

I do not have problems, Thus I do not have complaints, Still, I avoid those threads cause.. What I want to know at this point is what NHTSA is doing, and when/if a recall is issued.   Till then..  There really is nothing more to say on either side.

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  Thats not the problem at all. I had problems with my brakes with only 12,000 miles but was a couple of months out of warr. This happened over 2 years ago and when I went online to get some answers(because wh wont admit any problems all I got from their mod was its my fault because, the way I drive, I dont use enough, I dont service my brakes right, I use my brakes to much, and the list went on. Now this guy doesnt know me from adam but it was all my fault. What he didnt know is I have had several failures with this mh and drove veh MUCH larger than that.  Also I was not going to let this person blame us for a brake problem thats NOT OUR FAULT jus t to try to protect his bread and butter.  When I first started to talk to nhtsa there was only a invest on the w20 and now it includes the w22 and I hope I had alot to do with that. WH needs to do the right thing but will only do so if forced to by nhtsa.....  Richard, I always thought I would go before you because like you I take this issue very serious. I've had the feeling of my pedal going to the floor ,twice and the mh not stopping. Thanks for all the help you gave us on this issue. P.S.  remember what I told you along time ago to make copies of those nasty pm's and also post them right back on their site for the whole world to see the kind of person you were dealing with.  Good luck 

winnie35 said:

  Thats not the problem at all. I had problems with my brakes with only 12,000 miles but was a couple of months out of warr. This happened over 2 years ago and when I went online to get some answers(because wh wont admit any problems all I got from their mod was its my fault because, the way I drive, I dont use enough, I dont service my brakes right, I use my brakes to much, and the list went on. Now this guy doesnt know me from adam but it was all my fault. What he didnt know is I have had several failures with this mh and drove veh MUCH larger than that.  Also I was not going to let this person blame us for a brake problem thats NOT OUR FAULT jus t to try to protect his bread and butter.  When I first started to talk to nhtsa there was only a invest on the w20 and now it includes the w22 and I hope I had alot to do with that. WH needs to do the right thing but will only do so if forced to by nhtsa.....   Richard, I always thought I would go before you because like you I take this issue very serious. I've had the feeling of my pedal going to the floor ,twice and the mh not stopping. Thanks for all the help you gave us on this issue. P.S.  remember what I told you along time ago to make copies of those nasty pm's and also post them right back on their site for the whole world to see the kind of person you were dealing with.  Good luck   

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Thanks Winnie35; my initial thought was to reply saying much the same thing, that the real problem is not US on focusing on some sort of resolution, but rather Workhorse and a few members at the forum that want to argue to death that it has to be the owner's fault. Too many complaints at that very website and far too many filed at NHTSA for me to believe that there is not a real problem with the brakes on these chassis. As you know, I've taken a lot of heat over there (and now banned, just to shut me up) but will always feel that ALL of us should have a safe vehicle when traveling and Workhorse should have stepped up a long time ago and help us. While it's been said that Workhorse should keep quiet while it's being investigated by the NHTSA, I have always felt that Workhorse should have taken ownership L-O-N-G before an investigation was ever needed by the NHTSA.

We're all anxious for the NHTSA findings and certainly hope that the findings, one way or the other, come up with a resolution, which could leave Workhorse and/or Bosch responsible, and if not, at least clearcut information on what and why it happens, and corrective steps that owners can take. I bought a thermo-digital thermometer so when I stop I can take temperature readings of all the rotors but really, on a $100k motorhome, should I really need and have to do that to help insure my families safety?

The most common 'reason' that has been pushed over there is not changing the brake fluid enough but if this was the real reason, wouldn't that also apply to Ford chassis and all other vehicle product lines? How often is the brake fluid changed by the typical car owner? 'Never' might be a pretty typical response. Look at all the vehicles driving around out there on under-inflated tires: it's 'free' to top them off and keep them at the proper inflation but people can't even do that, so how likely are these same people are spending $100 or more just to replace the brake fluid? And my point is, I'm not aware of any vehicle manufacturer or model that has the problems with brakes like Workhorse.

And lastly, no one over there has any rational reason on why the brake issues seem to go away after the mid-year 2005 model; those owners aren't changing the fluid any more frequently, are they?

Information:  My letter from NHTSA said they would have their EO done by the end of March. Here it is the 3rd of April and still nothing yet. I find it very interesting that at the "other" forum the Ambassador is now saying we should have an answer by the 15th of April. What does he know and why is he not telling us??????

rickandcheryl said:

Information:  My letter from NHTSA said they would have their EO done by the end of March. Here it is the 3rd of April and still nothing yet. I find it very interesting that at the "other" forum the Ambassador is now saying we should have an answer by the 15th of April. What does he know and why is he not telling us??????

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Just like why has he repeatedly claimed, along with other things, that we didn't change the brake fluid enough, but recently stated: "One thing that I don't expect to see would be a determination that there is "no engineering deficiency." Maybe someone at Workhorse is talking...

rickandcheryl said:

I find it very interesting that at the "other" forum the Ambassador is now saying we should have an answer by the 15th of April. What does he know and why is he not telling us??????

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Rickandcheryl, IMHO as we have found out from him in the past, he doesn't have any "inside information", and is just posting these type statements to stop or slow the brake complaints.  Like I have said early....please take his posts with a grain of salt, and don't confront him.  He isn't "Workhorse", and is only a volunteer Ambassador who's job is to solely promote Workhorse, which he does very well.   He hasn't been notified of a thing about this issue, and is just hoping to calm down the issues.....both you, jdsr, Richard 34A, brakeless, and myself all know that.

I do want others here to know that us Workhorse owners aren't "ragging on Workhorse".  Our year model chassis are in a group that has been involved in some VERY horrible safety issues, and we have been told BY WORKHORSE (Allen Stetch in particular) that "Workhorse has a fix coming in November".....that was back in October of 2008.  We aren't "ragging" on them....we just want to know when Workhorse will step up to the plate like they promised , and keep promising.  Hopefully with the pressure us owners have put on the NHTSA about this issue, we will have our answer soon.   

Ron said:

IMHO any responsible manufacture receiving reports of safety issue such as brake issues should have already addressed the issue themselves and not leave it up to the customers to make complaints to the FEDs.  I am quite sure that with the number of complaints I have seen voiced here that a recall will be forthcoming form the FEDs.

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Ron...I extend my hand of thanks for your post  (shaking hands with you).  Your post is SPOT ON. 

Ron said:

IMHO any responsible manufacture receiving reports of safety issue such as brake issues should have already addressed the issue themselves and not leave it up to the customers to make complaints to the FEDs.  I am quite sure that with the number of complaints I have seen voiced here that a recall will be forthcoming form the FEDs.

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I agree with you Ron, and Workhorse HAS addressed at least some of the issues, both in TSB's and in design modifications (one of which is very clearly evident on my rig) 

One of the issues here is figuring out how bad the problem is and who's fault is it.. Now myself, I tend to blame Bosch, for one problem,  That one kind of worries me

Another problem with pre-2005 units IS workhorse's fault, a TSB covers it and the "Fix" is very easy, I don't have that problem since mine was built "post modification in design)

The 3rd problem DID bite me.. but on my car, not on my motor home

Now..  The problem is 1 and 3 look a lot alike when you see 'em. The NHTSA investigators can, however, tell the difference,  I can tell the difference, it is very likely YOU can tell the difference.  However the average wet behind the ears brake technician .. Well you know that line about holes in the ground.

NOTE that the car has like 200,000 plus miles on it.

John, please educate us as to these problems you are referring to. You lost me!

John, In a post in the IRV2 you said you are a moderator in another site. Is this the site you are a moderator in If I may ask?

Winnie,

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