Sailboat coming 'round the bend

A neighbor's son in law recently purchased a sailboat in San Diego, and had a captain bring it up the coast to San Francisco Bay. The SIL brought the boat up to the Delta yesterday and today, staying overnight to catch today's high tide. Last weekend, I spent a couple of hours going over navigation charts and tide tables with him. On arrival, he mentioned that he hit bottom twice.

It's a motorcruiser, 59' LOA, 16' beam, with a 180HP diesel engine. The boat has a concrete hull.

Nice looking yacht, even though it needs some hull paint.  8)  Wonder what the draft is???

I believe the proper nomenclature for the hull is "ferro-crete" or "ferro-cement". Cement by any other name...???  ???

Wonder what the draft is???

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Oops, for got forgot to include the draft; It's 8 feet. When I walked him through the route, I suggested he stick to the shipping channels wherever possible, since they're dredged to nominally 50'. There are several places en route into the Delta where, if you just wander a short way outside the channel, the birds are knee deep in water. There are a couple of areas on the way into Discovery Bay where, if you don't know where you're going, it can be 6-8 feet. Once in our bay, it's OK - we have 30 feet of water in the bay, with maybe 12 feet at the end of the dock nearest the house (under his bow).

I believe the proper nomenclature for the hull is "ferro-crete" or "ferro-cement". Cement by any other name.

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I suppose you're right, but I was just quoting the new owner. I figured it had rebar, but I just looked up ferrocement on Wikipedia. The ferrocement.org has additional information. A floating chunk of concrete (or cement) does seem like an oxymoron.

Nice lines on that pilothouse ketch.  It really looks sleek.  I hope it's in pretty good shape inside because the new owner may need to do some work on that hull because the salt water may have gotten into the rebar at the waterline.

We used to watch them build ferrocement boats at Pete's Harbor in Redwood City (before they built the condos that are there now).  We thought they were kind of neat, but I was always amazed that cement could be made light enough to float.  In fact, there was one couple who were building one that they planned to use on a sailing trip around the world.  I read somewhere that it got finished and launched and they left on their trip, but maybe they had to stop somewhere because of damage caused by bad weather.  We moved and I never kept up with how they fared.

Hope the new owner enjoys their yacht for a long time.

ArdraF

Tom, he's lucky to have access to you!

the new owner may need to do some work on that hull

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Ardra, I believe he (has) a lot of plans to do stuff on the boat, including putting on a taller mast. Hope it doesn't fall in our direction    His MIL told me he wants to remove the paint to get to "all the nice wood underneath". If it's teak, it will take a lot of maintenance. If not teak, it's best left painted.

he's lucky to have access to you!

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Not really Becky. He could have figured it out from the charts. I think he just wanted some reassurance from someone who has made the trip a number of times.

but I was always amazed that cement could be made light enough to float

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  A little correction here, Adra. It is not the lightness of the cement that keeps it afloat. Cement never gets as light as a cork. Most large ships are made of steel and carry a humongous amount ow weight...think oil tankers.

  It is all a matter of the displacement weight of the surrounding water. In simple terms, you can put a cast iron baththub in the water and it will float... until you overload it with weights or water. Same with ships.

  The true explanation is much more difficult and above my pay grade.  ;D

carson

This was Archimedes' principle.

Tom said:

This was Archimedes' principle.

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And the source of the cry Eureka   Compress any boat into a solid and it will sink regardless of the construction material.

Compress any boat into a solid and it will sink regardless of the construction material.

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Is that what they call a boat anchor?

A mooring.

I believe the floating bridges over Lake Washington in Seattle are made of concrete also.

During WWII there was a huge facility in Rochester, NY which manufactured cement boats of some kind for the Navy. They even built a canal from the plant to Lake Ontario for moving the boats onto the lake and eventually to the east coast where they were fully outfitted and put in service. The plant is long gone but the canal is still there. I'm not sure of their size but they were fairly large.

Just a bit trivia.

Here's something to consider BUT first talk to a naval architect about it.  You might consider changing the sail rig as follows.  Remove the ketch-style rear mast and lengthen the boom to make up for some of the lost sail area square footage.  A mizzen sail usually does not have much sail area anyhow.  Install an in-boom furling system with a mainsail that has horizontal battens and maybe a roach.  Also install a roller furling jib if the boat does not already have one now.  By the way, I suggest an in-boom furler because in-mast furlers add a lot of weight up high and if you ever had a jam you could still lower the mainsail manually with an in-boom furler but with an in-mast mast furler you're in deep do do if it were to jam.

In this way with ONE electric winch you can trim and raise/lower both sails (jib and main) from the cockpit as well as reef the sails (furl 'em in) from the cockpit.  Believe me this will make your boat MUCH MORE FUN.  We have owned two live-board sailboats and today we would only have another sailboat if it were rigged in this way.

One other point, because your mast is tall consider raising the boom a couple of feet higher up the mast so it clears the top of the pilot house more.  This allows a TV dome/dish, solar panels, radar and so forth more clearance when placed on top of the pilot house.  It also makes it safer for yourself and crew members in case of a accidental jibe.

Again get the new rig designed by an expert.  Tom, can you pass this idea on to your friend...thanks.

JerryF   

Jerry, for clarification, you, Ardra and Ned are the only sailboaters I know in this discussion. Remember, Chris & I are stinkpotters, and all that sailboat jargon is beyond our comprehension.

Tom,

It's been years since I heard the term stinkpot and that was way back in the Great Lakes.  BTW, the fellow from whom we charted the Manta 42 SailCat last summer called you folks "wave makers."  I like that term better because it's more boater friendly.

Thanks for passing it on.

Jerry

called you folks "wave makers."

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Not sure if that's a polite term or not. We certainly create a good sized wake, but we're also quite respectful of other vessels and other people's property. Due to the large bite on our props, with both engines in 'slow vessel' mode (below idle speed), we can't do less than 6 knots, so we come into Discovery Bay with only one engine in gear and using lots of rudder.

Tom and Jerry,

    I'm certainly not a naval architect, however I've lived on my own boat for over twenty years sailing the waters of the Caribbean and Bahamas and have seen all manner of boats and been on most of them.  IMHO, the changes to the rig on the sailboat that you have suggested would surely inprove the crew's handling ability, but would likely cost more than the sailboat itself.  Remember, this is a ferro boat (although there are a few VERY NICE ferrocement boats out there).  Ferro boats generally are large and roomy, heavy and slow, deep-draft vessels and you're darn lucky to find someone to buy it.  There is a reason that boat has a 180 hp engine.

  Ferrocement boats sell for what some might call ridiculously low prices because so few people want the hassle of one.  If a ferrocement boat is ever severely damaged, if the hull is cracked, it can never be fixed to the point of the original hull integrity like a fiberglass, wood, or steel boat can.  If the cabin top is also ferro, you'll have a devil of a time trying to install any sort of add-ons such as larger ports, through-bulkhead gauges, vents, things of that nature. 

  And I agree, someone should look at the stains along the waterline.  East coast boats, especially in Florida, often get similar stains due to the color of the water the vessel is moving through, but the pattern on Tom's neighbor's sailboat is not quite similar. 

  I wouldn't call her sleek either.  At best I'd say she has nice lines and as an aside remind myself that she's got a boxy cabin.  She's obviously got a lot of interior room, and that pilot house will make voyaging in bad weather a bit more comfortable.  Personally, I like the ketch rig, it offers more options for sail handling in bad weather.  I would suggest a cutter rig though.  Adding a staysail will increase her speed and pointing ability, and let's face it, a big, bulky ferro boat can always use a bit more speed and pointing ability.  Although she does appear undercanvassed, I think that increasing the size of the mainsail would not make up for the loss of the mizzen sail were that mast removed.

    I don't see any anchor handling gear unless it's below that hatch on the bow.  If the owner doesn't have one, he had better install a large windlass because that boat will need a big anchor along with chain and rode.  I sure wouldn't want the task of pulling the anchor without a windlass.

  So why do people buy ferrocement boats?  Primarily, because of size.  Because for the money, ferrocement boats give you more boat for the dollar.  You can buy a 30' fiberglass boat or you can buy a 50' ferrocement boat.

  The owner can have some great times on that boat, and with positive suggestions like Jerry's can improve handling (reefing and furling without having to go out on deck).  I would love to see what the interior looks like.

Steve

Changing the sail plan from ketch to sloop or cutter is a major project and it's probably not going to be as simple as just increasing the main mast height.  It may have to be relocated as well to keep the boat balanced.  A ketch has a relatively large mizzen sail area in relation to the main and increasing the main sail to compensate may well make the boat unstable.  If  it were a yawl it might be feasible, but I'd leave it rigged as a ketch.  Changing to boom furling is an excellent idea, however.  And a roller furling head sail is a must for the shorthanded sailor.  I wish him well with his new yacht.