HWH Jack System Parts

Can someone verify that the slide solenoid valve HWH p/n is RAP 90729?  This is on a 2007 Itasca Meridian 34HS with an "automatic" HWH slide/leveler hydraulic system 625 (I think).

Also, with the "automatic" system... are there any tips on use procedures... for instance, levelers first with engine running? then slides?  any tips would be appreciated.

I'm new at this and I just blew out the seals on the manifold somehow and the RV is at the shop, 150 miles away, hopefully getting fixed.  They called yesterday to say that after the new seal kit was installed, they noticed a dead solenoid and HWH is back-ordered for 3 weeks.  I called around to many rv shops and found one RAP90729 in Glendale Az for $185 plus s/h to drop ship it to ABQ.

Thanks, Gary

Hi Gary - welcome aboard!  Glad to have you here.

In reply #8 above, I indicated I could not find any HWH parts reference or system diagram with an in line hyd filter.
After thumbing through some parts references, I have found reference to an in tank(reservoir) strainer and in tank
magnet.

http://www.hwhcorp.com/mr303365.pdf

Again...a strainer works chips and chunks...not micro stuff. The magnet should work micro and macro.

Back to my test results of my dipstick magnet and what it successfully pulls in as per micro FOD...the tank strainer and tank magnet have limited application...but they do exist. :

I'll keep my dipstick magnet...

Charlie

Well, I thought all was cool after replacing the HWH Pump Relay with a Trombetta Relay..

Yesterday, I went out to test jack system again....after several successful cycles and the new pump relay installed.

And the rest of the story is...no pump activation...but blinking red main power switch light on the master touch control panel.
Dag Gummit!   OK...I know there is a Master Relay that controls 12V power to the Pump Relay . I read about failures of the Master Relay too. On system diagrams it is also piggy back to the pump motor usually on the other side of the pump across from the Pump Relay.

I go back to Trombetta Website...this time looking for an intermittent DC contact relay to replace the HWH OE master Relay. I found this one.
Trombetta # 684-1211-212 (L bracket curved).

http://www.trombetta.com/dc-contactor-products.cfm?id=2

The new Trombetta Master Relay arrived this morning and I wrapped up change out late this afternoon. BINGO...all's working again..pump activation is immediate...working all jacks and slides. Full jack retraction time is 1 min 45 secs. ;D

Pics of OE HWH Master Relay (right side) along side of Trombetta (left side) posted below. Note the significant increase in coil size on the new Trombetta..Again, the Trombetta is IP66 and 67 rated ;D

To better access the Master Relay on my Itasca, I removed the left front wheel well mud flap. Once again, before touching any surfaces of terminals on the Master Relay, I disconnected both the house and engine batteries.

One pic is a side wheel well view of the pump assembly with the Master Relay removed. The other pics are a bottom views of new relay installed...without the terminal corrosion protectant. The Pump Relay is also visible in the pics.

Pics below show severely deteriorated internal contact points on OE Master Relay...and strong indications of corrosion through moisture penetration.

taoshum said:

Can someone verify that the slide solenoid valve HWH p/n is RAP 90729?  This is on a 2007 Itasca Meridian 34HS with an "automatic" HWH slide/leveler hydraulic system 625 (I think).

Also, with the "automatic" system... are there any tips on use procedures... for instance, levelers first with engine running? then slides?  any tips would be appreciated.

I'm new at this and I just blew out the seals on the manifold somehow and the RV is at the shop, 150 miles away, hopefully getting fixed.  They called yesterday to say that after the new seal kit was installed, they noticed a dead solenoid and HWH is back-ordered for 3 weeks.  I called around to many rv shops and found one RAP90729 in Glendale Az for $185 plus s/h to drop ship it to ABQ.

Thanks, Gary

Click to expand...

Hi Gary,

The attached link has your Service Manual for the 625 HWH System. I rec you download it...as it has just about everything you need.
http://www.hwhcorp.com/service34.html

Charlie

Next HWH part discussion-information is the Jack Solenoid. I have to take a deep breath before I get into this big rip-off turkey.
Attached is pic. A review of the three failure factors in my thread opening-initial post will indicate where I go on this turkey shoot! :

Gary, you are  going to love this one!

Charlie

I it already... I hope folks that live near the coast (or anywhere roads are de-iced in the winter) take note of the corrosion and lack of protection for corrosion.  Thanks.

PS: I found the parts manual, 998 pages on the HWH website.  it shows the sub assemblies, parts and kits but no details of the guts or sealing technology.

Pubtym said:

Next HWH part discussion-information is the Jack Solenoid. I have to take a deep breath before I get into this big rip-off turkey.
Attached is pic. A review of the three failure factors in my thread opening-initial post will indicate where I go on this turkey shoot! :

Gary, you are  going to love this one!

Charlie

Click to expand...

The photo is of an OE jack solenoid. Service life on this valve is going a little over three years. Note the case corrosion and corrosion around the wire terminal entry points into the casing. Looking at the amount of corrosion present around the bleed screws and the two primary wire entry points to my current jack solenoids, I would assume the HWH valve is not constructed to meet IP66 or IP67 ratings and moisture collects at those three points...and the possible minute corrosion seepage occurs in to the coil unit windings (on to the contact points)...thereby possible breakdown of coil and contact point integrity-continuity.

The HWH Solenoid Valve Part Number is AP90729. At this point, the consistent and frequent customer comments I see on posts regarding the high failure rates of these valves...and the finding of these 'remanufactured' HWH valves(RM90729) prevalent in stock dealer supplies....leads me to say "muddy water" about quality of these valves currently used by HWH.  ???

Incidentally, at my local Winnebago Dealer, I found this HWH "remanufactured" valve @ $164 each.  I did not buy it...parts counter person says they always order "remanufactured" valves from HWH....brand new are $30 more. The same remanufactured valve was purchased directly from HWH for $108 each (plus S&H) as a ?spare? for my emergency parts bin.

To date, I have been unable to determine:

a. What on the remanufactured solenoid was "remanufactured"?

b. Has HWH manufacturing Quality Control identified why the component part required "remanufacture"?...why it failed?

c. Do "new" (not remanufactured) jack solenoids have engineered-manufacture product improvements to prevent this component failure?

I?ve tried to find a crossover aftermarket 12 Volt Solenoid Valve that is higher quality than HWH solenoids that have the high failure rates.. After several consults with another industrial solenoid valve company design engineer, the company does not have a match for a crossover solenoid valve to fit the HWH system. Apparently the valve seating core tubes are at depth-dimensions unique to the HWH manifold. So, it looks like we the customers will just have to continue to buy this part ...

Until we possibly locate a sealed/moisture proof solenoid unit from another industrial source, here's what I would do if replacing jack solenoids with the current crudely sealed "remanufactured' ones:

a. Locate-purchase a product called Liquid Tape (Electrical). It's made by Performix.

b. Prior to installing the new solenoid..clean the oiled areas around the solenoid's primary wire entry points and the manual release screw...and the immediate surrounding area to the screw. Use an electrical connection spray cleaner (Auto Parts Store).

c. When these areas are clean and dry, sufficiently coat all areas with dabs of Liquid Tape ...so as to temporarily seal all potential moisture entry points. Lightly spray coat with auto undercoat or a good rust proof paint (Rustoleum).  Let thoroughly dry...then install.

d. Shield with a protective surface. In the photo, I placed Velcro Tape on the inside of a plastic cup and stuck the half cup to the solenoid surface. My intent here is to deflect most of the minute tire dust abrasive trailing with added direct water mist. It's a DIY cheap temp fix to upgrade the IP rating.

Have you sprung some big bucks for replacement HWH jack springs? ??? Maybe a couple of times...

It's spring time on this thread..

Can you pick out the HWH springs from the photos below?

The HWH Jack Springs (Part Number 3847) ($22 each) in Post # 31 above are the two black colored ones.

1. The HWH spring at the top of the photo is "new"..virtually out of the shipping box...and flexed by hand a few times. The black painted surface coating (?) has already begun flaking off the wire's surface opening up the spring to rapid corrosion and rust pitting.

2. The middle HWH spring was on my rig for four weeks and 4000 miles driving about 1000 miles on surfaces coated with winter salts. It has begun to rapidly corrode and pit where the HWH initial black surface coating has easily flaked off. 

3. The bottom spring is one made by Century Spring Inc. It is made of high grade spring steel and thoroughly protective coated with zinc.
http://www.centuryspring.com/

First some very basic issues here as they pertain to spring service life on the HWH jack springs. I quote from Century Springs Tech Tips and FAQs:

"Since spring wire is primarily subjected to torsional stresses, maximum stress levels occur at the wire surface. As a result, material surface defects (i.e.seams, laps, pits, etc.) can dramatically reduce a spring?s fatigue life. Knowing this, wire manufacturers have developed surface preparation methods to restrict the size of wire surface defects as it leaves the mill. Surface defects are one of the most common initiation sites for fatigue cracks in springs." A zinc coating of the wire's surface significantly reduces corrosion and surface pits and thereby prolongs the service life of a spring.

Last year at Winnebago GNR08, I learned from HWH Tech rep that HWH makes their own springs... ???
After going to the website for "Century Springs", I learned what material characteristics and manufacturing processes yield the highest quality springs. My opinion: HWH springs are a D+ with Century Springs A+. I ordered Century Spring #5582 ($11 each) from the Century Spring Manufacturer.

I decided to install two Century Springs #5582 on each jack...with each Century Spring piggy back to the OE HWH Spring. Connections of the Century Springs to the jack points were by common hardware stainless steel shackles. New mounting holes for the shackles were drilled according to the thickness of the shackle pins.

Testing has been completed and the piggy back booster spring package works great at half the cost of replacing springs with HWH quality. The spring steel in these Century Springs will provide a longer service life and the zinc coating will be the corrosion barrier that assures a longer service life. Retraction time...really fast! Coffee does not get cold waiting for retraction. ;D

Pics attached.

Ah Springs...

If I recall my engineering 101, by putting springs in "parallel", the force is additive, i.e., the return force is approx twice the force before but the extension force is also twice.  Maybe this is ok, compared to lifting the weight of the whole RV.

fyi, thanks, Gary

According to the Century Spring website each #5582 spring has about 79 pounds of tension at it's approximate designed max deflection  (7 inches). So, set of 2 would have about 158 pounds added tension at max extension of jack and spring..

Chunk change added resistance to 12,000 pound capacity jack...but very significant to storage rate of jack once pressure is dumped on jack. ;D

Update on HWH hydraulics failure on our MH.  Shop called today to tell us that they installed the solenoid valve for the slide and  now the "mega leak" is still there, pump failure or a manifold failure.  The tech has consulted with HWH but I don't know what transpired.  This MH only has about 5,000 miles on it so everything is practically new so one wonders what is going on at HWH???  The service manager said that they are seeing a lot of quality problems from HWH in the last few years but that the only alternative is another company which is far more difficult to work with.

Recall that this is the solenoid valve that was back-ordered for 3 weeks at HWH but I was able to find one in Glendale, Az.  Now I wonder how long it will take to get a manifold and/or pump????

thanks for reading... it is frustrating to say the least?  thanks, Gary.

Gary,

Is this HWH warranty repair on your coach.. ???

As per my initial post on this thread.."Basically, a system is only as good as the quality and reliability of its parts."

Charlie

I agree, spring force is small compared to weight of a MH... would a stiffer single spring on each side do even better?  Like maybe 300 lb retraction force... makes you wonder why they chose the spring they chose????  thx. G

Pubtym said:

According to the Century Spring website each #5582 spring has about 79 pounds of tension at it's approximate designed max deflection  (7 inches). So, set of 2 would have about 158 pounds added tension at max extension of jack and spring..

Chunk change added resistance to 12,000 pound capacity jack...but very significant to storage rate of jack once pressure is dumped on jack. ;D

Click to expand...

It is older than a year so technically, the warranty is "over", but with such low mileage on the MH, they might reconsider and at least cover some of the cost, I hope so anyway.  This seems to be such a massive failure, you'd think they would want to do a post mortem on the parts so that they can avoid similar situations in the future.  It reminds me of the definition of corporate insanity "doing the same thing over and over; while expecting different results".  If they continue to build parts like this, the parts are going to continue to fail...

Worst case, I'll get stuck with a huge bill and then worry about when or if it is going to fail again. ???  :-\

Pubtym said:

Gary,

Is this HWH warranty repair on your coach.. ???

As per my initial post on this thread.."Basically, a system is only as good as the quality and reliability of its parts."

Charlie

Click to expand...

taoshum said:

I agree, spring force is small compared to weight of a MH... would a stiffer single spring on each side do even better? like maybe 300 lb retraction force... makes you wonder why they chose the spring they chose????  thx. G

Click to expand...

When you visit the Century Spring web page, they have a very defined question-answer process to determine the spring requirements..as to the user needs...system developer needs..I have a difficult time believing HWH engineers went through similar process if they (HWH) makes their own springs..

In a conversation with one of their (HWH) experienced Techs..I mentioned parts requirements and needed construction to meet IP ratings..
Conversation went silent on HWH end with tech. ???..I explained all...clearly tech was not familiar with topics. This week I sent some photos of failed parts posted here to that Tech at HWH..and connected the topic's dots with that Tech...hmmmmmmm :

As well as other ecomomic issues...excessive warranty labor repairs...excessive warranty parts replacements... can bring a company and its reputation to its knees..I hope this is not the situation with HWH.

Charlie