HWH Jack System Parts

Pubtym said:

Here's pic of fluids. Dark fluid is from the Tank Reservoir. It has been in use about 3 years.. The measure cup has the fresh unused Dextron III for refill.
I think I'll go to a fluid flush-refill every two years. Time to do all this..about 1 hour.

Cost: 18 dollars Dextron III (6 quarts-Super Tech-Walmart) ;D

Click to expand...

I made a senior moment error here. Does anyone catch it before I correct it this afternoon? :

Hint: Check Reply # 59.

Charlie

Pubtym said:

I made a senior moment error here. Does anyone catch it before I correct it this afternoon? :

Hint: Check Reply # 59.

Charlie

Click to expand...

HWH Service and Ops Manual says to use HWH Speciality Hydraulic Oil (synthetic) to top-off/flush/reservice.
HWH Quote: "Use Dextron standard ATF only in an "EMERGENCY"

I redrained-reserviced with 6 quarts of Valvoline DEXRON VI Synthetic AFT. :

Charlie

My HWH 625 series jack-slide system has the master electronics control board box placed behind the mud flap on the left side exterior underside of the coach.

Yesterday I removed the Plexiglas box cover to inspect the inside. I found powdered traces of moisture/corrosion..dust..debris on the bottom of the box. I cleaned out all with electrical contact cleaner and a small clean rag....then completely removed, inspected and hand cleaned the cover's exterior rubber seal (inside and out) with a dry type silicone spray.

To deal with any possible future moisture-condensation issues inside the box, I placed two 6 gram Drierite desiccant bags in two inside corners of the box's sidewalls. Both bags were temporarily fastened with Velcro tape. I plan to replace them annually.

I replaced the OE Plexiglas cover with a new one from HWH and then reassembled all.

Charlie

I'm ready for driving through summer rains.. and high humidity camping.;D

Hello Charlie and  all...

Thanks for the HWH analysis and scrutiny.  I'll be trying to implement your recommendations since I finally got the RV back from CW(ABQ) yesterday.  It's a really sad story about mis-communications and organizational processes that are causing a lot of extra work.  The bottom line though is that the hydraulic leak problem has been fixed, I hope for a long time.  The manifold leak was solved by a new seal kit but  after that, all of the work and new parts were a mistake since the big slide jack screws were cinched down tight for transport without a functional hydraulics system (per the HWH/Winnebago manual instructions); but the mechanic didn't know this... even though I wrote it on the work ticket I signed, in blue ink to contrast with the service write's black ink.  :-\ :-\ :-\  After I was able to speak to the mechanic, the jack screws were re-set to the normal position, everything works again.

I now have three new solenoid valves that probably weren't needed but I was only able to salvage one for possible post mortem or rebuild as a spare.  Actually I have another one on order from eBay so if someone needs one I might be able to help.

Today, I'm at the Freightliner shop to get an annual oil change, tranny service, wheel alignment, etc, etc, etc.  I hope to get home this afternoon.  After I get home and re-acquainted with the MH, I'm going to do all the things that Charlie has done to the HWH system and then go on a trip, at least a short one to see if all this work has really solved the original problems.


thanks to Charlie for this HWH work... Gary.

Pubtym said:

HWH Service and Ops Manual says to use HWH Speciality Hydraulic Oil (synthetic) to top-off/flush/reservice.
HWH Quote: "Use Dextron standard ATF only in an "EMERGENCY"

I redrained-reserviced with 6 quarts of Valvoline DEXRON VI Synthetic AFT. :

Charlie

Click to expand...

Today I did find a few quarts of HWH Speciality Hydraulic Oil on the store shelf of a local RV dealer @ $6.50 qt.
Parts guy said they don't sell much of it.. :

Charlie

Was there any additional information on the bottle like a MSDS number or ...

I am suspecting it is something like a AW46 hydraulic oil or other standard one.

Jim Godward said:

Was there any additional information on the bottle like a MSDS number or ...

I am suspecting it is something like a AW46 hydraulic oil or other standard one.

Click to expand...

Jim,

I did not look that close at the quart bottle...especially for an MSDS number.
I'll revisit dealer tomorrow to see if like data is on the bottle.

Charlie

Don't make a special trip but a review of the MSDS sheet could be quite enlightening.

Jim Godward said:

Don't make a special trip but a review of the MSDS sheet could be quite enlightening.

Click to expand...

I spent 30 minutes looking on MSDS websites under Conoco lubricants...I'm in dummy territory searching for it. :

Now you got me interested..the special trip ...9 miles down the road

Charlie

Pubtym said:

I spent 30 minutes looking on MSDS websites under Conoco lubricants...I'm in dummy territory searching for it. :

Now you got me interested..the special trip ...9 miles down the road

Charlie

Click to expand...

I reviewed the dealer stored quart jug of HWH Speciality Hydraulic Oil. I found no reference to any available MSDS.
Manufacturer is listed on jug as :ConocoPhilips.

I did find dust on the jug.. :

Charlie

I have a draft letter started to the President of HWH. The overall tone of the letter is "customer concerns" versus "complaint".

My list of items I intend to express my-our customer concerns is:

a. Remanufactured dump valve solenoid

b. Pump Relay

c. Master Relay

d. Jack Springs.

Are their any more HWH issues I need to include from you all? ???

Do you have any more items, thoughts-recommendations you would like me to convey to the President? ???


Charlie

Pubtym said:

I reviewed the dealer stored quart jug of HWH Speciality Hydraulic Oil. I found no reference to any available MSDS.
Manufacturer is listed on jug as :ConocoPhilips.

I did find dust on the jug.. :

Charlie

Click to expand...

OK,

Thanks for trying.  BTW, how much is a QT.

Jim Godward said:

OK,

Thanks for trying.  BTW, how much is a QT.

Click to expand...

About $6.50 qt from dealer.

Charlie

Hello Charlie,

topics to consider for your letter to HWH:

1. On the 625 system: some indicator that the slide lead screw is holding the slide in when it is used to pull the slide in after a hydraulic system failure
2. Someway to know whether the soldnoid valves have been mechanically disabled after a hydraulic failure and need to be reset
3. Someway, as you implemented, to filter/magnetically catch the debris and metallic pieces in the hydraulic fluid
4. A fluid level window in the side wall of the fluid tank to tell at a glance if has enough fluid
5. Color coded wires for jacks UP/DOWN and slides IN/OUT solenoid vallves
6. On the cockpit panel a clear connecting line on the display that shows which chassis jack is controlled by which button
7. An on-line parts inventory system linked to the dealer/parts distributor warehouses for ordering parts
8. HWH approved and supplied water proofing spray coating to seal out road moisture and contamination
9. Diagnostic panel that is visible from the top
10. cable ties that keep the wires from flopping around so much
11. Warnings in the manual about keeping the solenoid valves from overheating by limiting the time power is applied or maybe a thermal switch that removes power from the solenoid if it gets too hot
12. an interlock, depending on the coach, to have the proper order of slides first or jacks first and vice versa
13. an easier way to bleed air from the system during startup.

Probably too much but pick and choose as you see fit.  thanks, Gary

If HWH hydraulic fluid is not available, what are the rest of you using to refill/top off the reservoir since Dexron III is no longer on the market and the Dexron VI is recommended for 2006 and newer vehicle auto transmissions?  If VI is not good for older transmissions is it also not good for us with older HWH systems?  Or do you just use a synthetic anytime fluid is changed or added?

This has been a most enlightning thread (posting).  Thanks to all who contributed.

Wagonmaster2
2004 Meridian 36G

A comment on HWH Hydraulic Oil...  The following is a direct quote from HWH's Online School, Lesson  = Hydraulics and HWH Systems, Section 4.5 Fluids

"The fluid discussion is a relatively simply discussion. HWH recommends using only
?HWH Hydraulic Jack Oil?. Multi-purpose transmission fluid or the ?Dexron? transmission fluids have been
used and are compatible with the HWH hydraulic jack oil. The advantage of the HWH oil is it is clear. This
will make clean-up from an oil leak easier. There is no dye to ruin carpet or other fabrics. All of these fluids
will mix with each other, but it is not recommended to add a red fluid to the clear HWH oil. DO NOT use
bottle jack oil, brake fluid or power steering fluid. Synthetic oils may or may not be compatible so do not use
these oils without checking compatibility."

Here are a couple of prior discussions on hydraulic oil, which leave me to believe that, in most cases, you can use any good brand of hydraulic oil.

HWH system

a different brand

There is no one answer to HWH jack retract problems..I have been chasing them for 5 years.

1. First concern....retract solenoids have to have good 12V + power to work efficiently. If engine battery is weak..and you are not running engine with alternator at 14.4V to solenoids..jack solenoids are almost crippled and work very slowly....more amps are required to solenoid..solenoids run hottter...longer time..many fry the internal coils. Gotta have good juice to solenoid retracts.

2. If you have a choice..retract when the day is cool...morning etc. The hotter the day gets..the more probable a problem with retracts. Heat affects engine batt volts too..if engine not running with 14.4V alternator power.

3. Springs...been that route too..tapered etc. I now have 98% success with double-piggy back spring configuration. Another point..the coating on HWH springs is as good as soda pop in fighting rust. When your springs get very heavily crusted..extend them..wire brush clean..spray on basic flat black Rustoleum paint..Spray spring from all angles to get paint into the coils. After 3-5 years of use..consider replacing them.

4. The greatest success I have with slow retracts is with use of 3M Silicone Lubricant (Dry Type) #08897.
Before a trip..at least once a month..with the jacks fully extended..I'll spray the entire jack shaft (all 4 jacks) and then do a full retract...without wipe down of shafts. This routine spray on the jack shafts keeps them retracting smoothly through the seals...especially if the day is warm and seals have expanded.

http://www.amazon.com/3M-08897-Silicone-Lubricant-8-5oz/dp/B000PJED72

Fast jacks save costly replacement of fried jack retract solenoids.

Hello Charlie,

Every time I even think of HWH, I think of you and all that you've done to illuminate the HWH shortfalls.  After all my solenoid failures last year and $800 to CW I thought we had the HWH system good to go.  It lasted about 6 months, then some o-rings in the manifold started leaking, badly... and I had to spend another $400 to get those replaced.  It's working again but who knows when it will fail next... HWH stuff has been 90% of the failures we have had on this coach so far.

Your advice helps, for sure.  thx.

In over 13 years, we've replaced one set of springs on one jack and had a new bracket installed by the factory when a jack bent slipping off a stone.  Our HWH jacks have been some of the most trouble free devices on our motorhome.  Oh, we had to have the reservoir remounted when some of the mounting bolts broke, but that was a Holiday Rambler problem, not HWH.