100K to spend, Gas or older DP?

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Aero RV

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Looking at a RV to be used 10-12 times a year.  I have a choice between a new (2009) Workhorse gasser for 100K or a (2007) Diesel Pusher (Freightliner - 4K miles) for the same price.  I was leaning toward the diesel but wasn't sure about the maintenance involvement and extra care and/or expense involved.  I could see the gasser having the advantage of more fueling locations and less overall maintenance cost.  Tough decision for me and any input would be greatly appreciated.  Thank you.

Brian
 
I had that decision to make last year and I went with the DP and never looked back. There is no problem finding locations to fuel up a diesel. And with a 90 gallon gas tank you don't have to fuel up all that often anyway. Diesel might have higher maintenance costs but that is offset by a much longer time between engine rebuilding. Go test drive a diesel and find out why people say if you don't want to buy a diesel don't drive one. Better turning radius, better suspension, much quieter operation, much less vibration all tipped the scales for me to diesel.
 
We just went through this delima & ended up with gas motorhome (similar budget).  I was leaning towards a diesel however (never driven one, really wanted to) my biggest concern was that I was not going to put 10K miles a year on it.  Seems like all the tech's I talked to said if I do not put at least 10K miles a year on it, get gas.   

I did drive a 05 providence 39s & unfortunantly it was a abused coach.  There was a LOT of vibration at idle & the brakes were hanging up (I think that's what it was) but it did feel very solid & the crappy roads/wind were not a issue.  I also tested a entry level fleetwood Terra 34g (ford) & the difference in how they drove was HUGE!!  The Terra I drove 1st & it wasn't easy to keep on the highway over the same roads that the diesel barely noticed.  The next day we looked at a bounder 38p (workhorse) & yea the diesel providence did feel a little more solid however the difference wasn't huge & sound from the engine wasn't much different either.  Unfortunantly I was not able to drive both of them on the same section of highway however the 38p feels more like a diesel then the Terra 34g.  So we went with the gas motorhome....... 

I was informed by a few techs/sales staff that even weekend trips are not enough for diesels.  They need to be driven longer .....

Not sure if interval between engine rebuilding is much of a concern since 150-200K out of a gas engine shouldn't be a problem
 
I don't believe you have to put 10k a year on a diesel. The average motorhome in America is driven 6k miles. My diesel had 14k in four years and it runs just fine.
 
It is difficult to cost-justify a diesel if you don't drive a lot of miles or keep a coach for 15 years. Both the purchase and maintenance costs are much higher than a gas chassis. But few of us bought diesels strictly for cost reasons.

Typically we say "gas" or "diesel pusher" but this is really a euphemism for a raft of different features. Typically (but not always) there will be a difference in engine location (front vs rear), difference in carrying capacity and tow capacity, different suspension (air vs spring), different brake system (air vs hydraulic), and quite likely a difference in the materials used throughout the coach (because weight is less of a problem). That $100k diesel pusher might have a number of features and characteristics that the gas coach will not, but you have to talk specific make &  model to be sure.

There is an article somewhere in the forum library on gas vs diesel which may help identify the pros and cons. It mostly addresses the engine side of things and not the other typical differences.  There have been numerous improvements and variations in the RV chassis field in the last few years and it is increasingly difficult to make generalizations about the difference between gas and diesel.
http://www.rvforum.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=27&Itemid=63

For once a month use, I'd be inclined to say the gas coach is the more practical choice, but you probably will LIKE the DP better.
 
Well...I had alot of thoughts on this, but Gary (RVRoamer) above stated my thoughts!  You're killing me Gary!  Kidding....he is right on!  ;D

EDIT:  We like new stuff, so with our $100K, we went with a new gas model, as it has all the features that some of the older DP's have (except the air ride), and the GM 8.1 liter gas engine is a 200K engine (per Workhorse), so we have a new unit without all the hassles of buying someone else's "problem".
 
I did drive the diesel which was probably a mistake...much quieter, NICE ride, more power, ARGHHH!!!  I will probably be in the 5K miles per year range.  The models I am comparing are Fleetwood Bounders; 38P gasser, and 38S Diesel...basically the same floor plan and basically the same price since the diesel is slightly used.  Like those plans because they have a total of 4 beds and we have 3 children...each child could have their own bed and there is still one left over for us.   ;D  

Bounder seems to be a good value as well but I am open to other suggestions in that price range.  What gets me is the price is nearly equal and the DP feels really good on the road.  But, if the gasser is more practical for our usage and there is less maintenance costs, that is a benefit.  Thanks for the replies so far.

 
Aero RV said:
basically the same price since the diesel is slightly used.  
Click to expand...

A gasser will usually go 100k miles before needing to have the engine rebuilt, a diesel can go up to 500k. So a little bit of mileage on the diesel wouldn't (didn't) bother me at all.
 
seilerbird said:
A gasser will usually go 100k miles before needing to have the engine rebuilt, a diesel can go up to 500k. So a little bit of mileage on the diesel wouldn't (didn't) bother me at all.
Click to expand...

While I disagree with your assessment of the usable engine life in a modern gasser, consider this:  At 5000 miles per year, even if you were right about a 100k rebuild for a 2009 gasser, you are talking about 20 years of use before it came to that ;)

In my opinion, the biggest difference in a diesel and gasser is the suspension and chassis, not the engine.  Most modern engines will go just fine for the life of the unit, the suspension on a DP, however, is VASTLY different than a gasser.  Having recently been dealing with the limitations of a gas powered leaf sprung chassis, I would vote for the DP if you drive for long distances at highway speeds.  An air-sprung adjustable suspension on 22.5 wheels will just plain handle better than a leaf-sprung chassis, end of story.  They are quieter and smoother over rough pavement, and air-brakes will provide more stopping power than the standard hydraulics on a Ford or Workhorse chassis (check other posts for brake problems on Workhorse chassis').

I am quite happy with my gasser and I am confident that it will serve me and my family well for many years.  I have it almost where I want it handling wise, but that is only after a lot of work and frustration (and money).  But if I had to do it again (and boy I hate to admit this), I would have gone with a slightly used DP (assuming a comparable floorplan).
 
I had the same question but I also like "NEW" and I may do 8000 or so a year .
I also like the Warranty of new so We went Bounder with gas .

 
roy said:
I had the same question but I also like "NEW" and I may do 8000 or so a year .
I also like the Warranty of new so We went Bounder with gas .
Click to expand...

GOOD JOB!  Congratulations on the new coach!  :)
 
I also liked the idea of having a new coach with a warrante however..... who knows where that will get me since Fleetwood is in limbo  ::)

If I had the funds I am sure we would of gone the DP route since like someone stated they brake, handle & ride better however in our price & with what we need (also 3 kids) the 38p worked for us. 

O yea,  another deciding factor for us was financing!  Going with a new +$100K coach gave us a 20year rate under 7% vs about 8% for 15years for anything used &/or under $100K. 
 
We had the same question (although at a lower $$ figure) four years ago. We bought a new Winnebago Sightseer which we really like. However, in retrospect, we now think that if we had it to do over again, we'd look harder at used DPs. Part of our decision was based on size...we wanted to stay under 32-feet which eliminated most DPs. Part was the higher cost of maintenance on a DP. In 4 years, we've put 48,000 miles on the Winnie. Is that a lot for a gasser? I dunno. But we like the Winnie so we're sticking with it....for now.

Wendy
 
One other thing to keep in mind is the "carrying capacity" of gas vs diesel. Diesels as a general rule will have a much larger CC than a gas rig. With a family of five the weight could add up pretty fast and "stuff" weighs more than most people think. Remember water weighs 8lbs/gal. so a rig with an eighty gallon tank will add 640 pounds when full. I know most of us don't travel with a full water tank but on the occasions when you're heading for a boondock site you don't want to be over your GVWR with three children aboard.
 
Since we know the coaches involved, we don't have to generalize. The 2007 38S diesel has a 31,000 lb GVWR and 41,000 lb GCWR, vs 22,000 and 26,000 for the gas Bounder (Workhorse W22). The diesel has air brakes and air suspension while the gasser has leaf springs and hydraulic brakes, but both have a solid (I beam) front axle. Both coaches have ABS. The chassis construction for each is pretty much the same - straight rails with 50,000 psi steel. Both have 6 speed Allisons, but the diesel has the industrial grade MH3000 while the gasser has the lighter duty MH1000. The diesel is a 7.2L Cat C7 with 300 HP and 860 ft lbs of torque. The Workhorse has a GM 8.1L with 340 hp but only 455 ft lb of torque. Both have 22.5 inch tires, but the Workhorse tires are slightly narrower because of the lower GVWR. The diesel has a 55 degree wheel cut while the gasser is 50 degrees.

So what does all that mean? The diesel will turn sharper, pull grades better and with the engine in the rear it will seem much quieter to those in the cab. Probably get slightly better fuel mileage too, though not enough to celebrate about.  If I liked both floor plans, I'd probably take the diesel cause I'm a guy and like lots of power. But when the annual maintenance bills rolled in, I might have a few wistful moments...
 
seilerbird said:
I don't believe you have to put 10k a year on a diesel. The average motorhome in America is driven 6k miles. My diesel had 14k in four years and it runs just fine.
Click to expand...

My guess is it's more of a long term thing then short term.  So in maybe 10 years a DP that has say 20K miles will need a lot more work/maintenance then a DP of the same year which has say 100K miles & for that matter a gas coach with 20K miles. 

I am sure my next coach will be a DP.... or maybe by that time a solar powered coach  ;D

edit.... dam that torque sounds like fun .... & I will share those wistful moments as the DP's pass me going up those steep grades :)
 

 
One other thing to think about is resale.  I would think in 10 years, the DP would have a higher resale value than the gas model.  It might be perceived that a DP with 100k miles on it has lots more life than a 100k gas engine.

Marsha~
 
I thought that I was the only one who over thought these decisions.

Much better to simply go out and buy what you want.

Having said that, I really really doubt that many people will see 100,000 miles on their RV, excepting those who are fulltimers and who travel all the time.

We like the layout of our Winne Adventurer Gas model, and I like that it is cheap and easy to get work done at the local SchoolBus garage.  It is noisy, doesn't have enough gears, and I would really really like better brakes, but it handles well and does everything we want it to.

Rankjo
 
Thanks for all the input so far.  Leaning toward the diesel for the many factors Gary mentioned.  It would have saved me the trouble of making a decision if I wouldn't have drove the diesel.  :)  Now I want one.  I have a box car trailer so the diesel will be beneficial in that respect if I need to drag it along.

Found a couple of Bounder 38S units but I'm also considering an 06 Newmar Ventana 3936 or an 06 Discovery 39S for around the same price point.  From what I have read around the forums, those are also decent units. 
 
the following is based on no real facts or statistics, just my personal opinion:
the Bounder is an entry-level big rig, whether it be gas or diesel.
given the choice between a new gas model, or a gently used DP - I would expand the search to include other brands/models of gently used higher-end DP's.
keep your mind open and keep looking, the right rig will find you if you look long enough.
good luck.
 
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