Single Fulltime in a 20ft?

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Everyone's living space needs are different.  I started fulltiming in a 29ft fifth wheel with no slideout.  After three years the living room area was feeling pretty cramped because of no floor space.

I thought about adding a couch slideout, but the discovery of the dry rot from hell nixed that idea.  I decided I'd rather live all on one level anyway, and bought an Arctic Fox 26x travel trailer.  It has a living/dining area slide that, when out, makes a grand 11 x 14 living area.

I really love the extra room, especially since I now have a 75 lb dog.  He and I spent a month in a 7 ft cabover pickup camper two summers ago in Colorado.  THAT was claustrophobic, but I couldn't take the trailer at the time.  I towed the Raider and did a lot of great backroading.

I've thought about going with a 28ft or so motorhome (with at least a couch slideout) and tow my little 4WD Dodge Raider.  However, the cheapest unit I've seem that I would have is $25k.  My current setup is paid for, so I will stick with the trailer and maybe get a Suburban-type 4WD to tow it.
 
Steelers1407 said:
Gary,

  Thanks for the response. I just read another posting invoilving a similar situation for Ohio. Bummer for me. Oh well, I guess i will just consider 6 months out of the year. Thanks for your and Ned's help.
I spent a winter in Ohio in a 29 foot trailer;  (never again) :'(
 
I like all the input that everyone's added  :D !  3 years ago I moved to NYC from the country and a few months ago I decided that if I could live in a tiny apartment in the city, I could probably live in an RV where I really want to be, in the woods and on the road! 
      I bought a 23ft Class C because I think it's got just enough space for a single, 23 year old guy like myself.  If I had a dog with me, especially a Lab, I'd just make sure it got enough time in the day to run around and get some fresh air. 

 
   
 
Wonder whatever happened to the original poster, Darin38.  This thread was started in June 2009.  Wonder if he ever took the plunge.

ArdraF
 
Sacket said:
  A bizarre & scary approach, but imagine if your house burned down...what things would you want to get before it burned.  Keep those things with you and that is all you need.  And remember...THAT IS ALL YOU NEED.  Otherwise you will be tripping over yourself.

This is how I came to be an RVers. I had no intention of leaving my house. I never planned on fulltiming. It just happened. An RV was a temporary place to live, and well, I never moved out once I got in.

In May 2006 a flood wiped out everything. I moved into a tent on the land, 9 cats and 2 dogs continued to live in the house. We started rebuilding. October 2006 a fire (arsine) took out the house, left nothing to rebuild. It was 1AM, I was asleep in the tent, I woke because of a smoke alarm in the house, which I could hear across the yard - I looked out the tent to see the house engulfed in flamed.

All I could think about were the pets.  I ran into the house and grabbed one dog (80lbs) and carried her out to my neighbor's car and stuffed her inside. (Uhm...no idea why, I was in panic mode.) The neighbor called the fire department while I was running back in and tossing terrified cats out windows and trying to stop them from running BACK INSIDE! They were house cats who had never been outside and were convinced it was safer to hide under the bed, than to run outside. I couldn't get to 1 dog (a wall of fire fell down between me and him) and I couldn't find 2 cats. I was in attempt to get the dog when a fireman carried me out - this was the first time I became aware of the fact that my mega long hair and my clothes were also on fire, they had to put me out as well.

A volunteer fireman (a kid just 18 years old) came out a few minutes later screaming "I've got the dog" - oh he had him alright - Buddy was latched on to the guys arm, trying to tear it off - boy was he mad and ready to kill every firemen in sight! (I think he went into protection mode - thought the firemen were the cause of the commotion so went right at them.)

The fire went out, everything that had survived the flood was gone (save one stack of plastic boxes which contained my massive Guinese World Record comic book collection - which ironically is the one thing I would have gone after once I had the pets out.) The firemen searched high and low, but no sign of the 2 missing cats.

The following week was spent with me running through the woods chasing down 7 terrified cats who had never been outside before and were so scared of my having thrown them out of the house during the fire that they now didn't dare let me near them - I think they thought I was going to throw them into another burning building or something.

The 2 missing cats, were found huddled together inside a mattress - they not only went under the bed, they went up inside it.

Thankfully all 9 cats and both dogs survived the fire. I've no idea how the comic books did, but I'm glad they did. And so, when I went fulltiming, the only things that came with me, were the pets and the comic books.

And today, 5 years later it's just me, 12 cats, and 7,000+ comic books, and I have learned, I don't really need anything else. It's amazing how little a person actually needs and if it hadn't been for the flood/fire, I never would have known that nor would I ever have become a fulltimer. I've lived out of a Volvo and a tent for 5 years now. All of us pretty much "camp out" outside most days (the cats are not terrified of the great outdoors any more). We have discovered we need more space, since the 9 cats became 12 cats, and so are upgrading to a 31' motorhome this fall.


Steelers1407 said:
  Ned and everyone else,

  I'm not trying to hijack the OP but I thought this was a good question because I am considering trying the same thing in about a year from now. The only difference is that I plan on having a 28 ft with a slideout. You brought out one interesting point that had me curious though. You stated "Stay in areas with good weather". What are the limits on that? My plan is to be in central Ohio. Is that to cold in the winter? If so, could you be a bit more specific about the weather conditions?



Steelers1407 said:
Ned,

  Could you be a bit more specific about the issues I would be facing from the cold? It may get down to 0 degrees a few days in Jan. & Feb. but the avg. low during that time period might be 20-25 degrees.


Steelers1407 said:
Gary,

  Thanks for the response. I just read another posting invoilving a similar situation for Ohio. Bummer for me. Oh well, I guess i will just consider 6 months out of the year. Thanks for your and Ned's help.


You are not quite in as cold a region as I am. What'll you be facing? Depends on the region. Me? I'm right on the ocean - North Atlantic Ocean - cooooold, windy,  and dumping constant sheets of ice over everything.

It can be done. I do it. But if you are not used to this kind of weather, I don't recommend it. It required huge amounts of survival skills to live pretty much with no protection, from the weather. Since the flood/fire of 2006, I have survived 3 blizzards (one dumping 21 feet of snow on us), a -48F cold front BEFORE wind chill factor (which brought it down to an estimated -80F according to weather reports), 2 ice storms (each which cut electricity state wide for 3 months), 5 hurricanes (a while the rest of the USA coast gets 2 or 3 days of each hurricane, we get 2 or 3 weeks of each one seeing how they get stuck in the Gulf of Maine and dance all over us until they fizzle and die), weekly electrical storms (often more than one a week- our days are short and we don't see much sun around here as what little time it dose have it spends hiding behind clouds) and 4 tornados (yes, we do have them here, people never expect that).

Welcome to Maine! You want extreme weather - we got it, and the worst of all of it - every day - all year long. Granted Maine's inland weather is much more stable and friendly, and only a couple of hundred people live on Maine's wild coast year round. It takes a strange breed of people to hunker down in a tent, on the beach, during a hurricane, but hey, I never said I was normal. I am deeply madly in love with nature, and the wilder the weather the better ... I live for this kind of weather. So, I was a bit off the mainstream when it comes to lifestyle, even before the RV - I mean, I lived here for 27 years in a house, a 1 bedroom 16x9' beach cabin, my RV is bigger than my house was.

But just like living in a small space, living in a cold region, is a lifestyle thing. You have to be someone who is comfortable living this sort of extreme lifestyle, and I'll tell you, I've seen a lot of folks come and go. People always come here in our cool 60F summers and expect it to be that way all year. Honey, you ought to know if it's that cold in August it's heck of a lot colder come January! Bt folks move in and think, "How bad can it get? -20F you say? That ain't that cold is it?" No one ever makes it through January, and that's a good thing, because our deep freezes come in February and they would have been found frozen to death by the May thaw. I've meet thousands of people who THINK they can make it through our winters, I've never seen one who didn't bail out long before the full force of our winters set in.

Where I was born, raised, and still live, we get 5 to 7 months (September to April - on cold years right on into June) of snow with at least 2 of those months (December to March) under -20F, and -48F BEFORE wind chill factor is not uncommon. We can get 9 to 21 feet of snow. While the rest of the USA shuts down schools at a couple of inches, we have to see 2 or 3 feet of snow in a single storm to warrant a "snow day". And I live on a beach besides so the wind never dies and is howling all year long. While the rest of the USA is calling 120F a heat wave, we are dying at 75F, which is just way outside of our heat threshhold.

You want advice on what to expect? I'll tell you:

Plan on NO running water - drain your tanks, unless you are able to insulate well enough to keep the pipes and tanks from freezing. You can't bath/shower in these temps, and you are better off drinking bottled water, and if you REALLY need to bath/wash, it's a simple matter to melt snow over a fire. So, your best bet is to just drain the tanks. Pipes and tanks can't freeze if there is no water in them.

DO NOT have a water flushing toilet - take it out and have a composting one instead, or as one person I know does - use a cat litter box.

Hay is your friend. In the fall before snow comes, buy lots of hay - enough bales to go around the entire outside edge and stacked like bricks up the sides - it's the only way you are going to keep out the cold - metal walls are thin.

Do not overlook curtains. Put curtains over all windows and doors and between rooms - long curtains floor to ceiling (52 - 72" long), made out of velvet and lined with minkie fur (a type of fake fur) - to keep out the cold, keep in the heat, and require only small sections to need heating at a time. Lots of curtains - don't just put one pair on a rod, swish 5 or 6 panels on the rod, so they hang in deep folds. They don't make curtains like this, you will have to sew them yourself. Remember - metal is cold. Metal attracts cold too it. Metal can become up to 20F colder than the air around it. Skin sticks to frozen metal. Your walls are made out of metal. These thick curtains are the only thing protecting you from freezing stuck to your walls.

You are going to want to equip your RV with the following:

[list type=decimal]

[*]bath tub - NOT SHOWER STALL! - for washing you, your cloths, and any pets all with one load of water - water made from melted snow

[*]or even better than a bath tub - a wash bin - if you can find such a thing - they went out of style in the late 1800's - I have one - it's basically a giant pot, big enough to sit in and take a bath

[*]solar panels on roof

[*]wind turbin

[*]generator

[*]skylights every 3 feet to allow lots of natural light inside (thus removing the need for electric lightbulbs)

[/list]

DO NOT plan on electric hook-ups, when the power goes out during a storm (at least around here) it could be 2 or 3 months before it comes back online, longer is they have to bring in new powerlines, as often happens. Know that solar panels are not going to do much good either, cold regions get very little "useable" sunlight. Plan on having a BIG supply of flashlights, batteries, candles, and matches.

TV? Cell phone? Forget they even exist. Once the snow starts rolling in, you'll be without reception for months.

Learn to live like it is 1695. Pretend electricity and tap water and toilets have not yet been invented. You'll need that kind of mindset once things stop working.

Know that in regions with this much cold and snow, you only have 4 to 6 hours of sunlight a day for 5 to 6 months of the year - the nights are long and dark. Learn to rise with the sun and sleep with the stars, and work fast to get things done before nightfall. Here it gets too dark to see by 6PM. That is the thing people complain about more than the cold. They come from out West or down South and they talk of how they go to bed with the sunset around 10PM or 11PM and get up at 6AM. Yeah. Not in Maine you don't! Our days are not that long. We have short days and long nights, thus WHY we have a lot of cold snowy weather!

You may want to consider putting a wood stove in your RV. I'm considering the possability of adding a wood stove. I've heard of folks doing it, but I'm not sure how it is done, or if I really want to cut a hole in the roof for a chimney.

Plan to cook ALL of your meals over an open fire OUTSIDE. Both electric and gas stoves are unlikely options for you. You'll likely be without electricity and gas is not safe used in an RV that is sealed up as tight as your RV will need to be sealed up in order to keep out the cold - you need ventilation to run gas powered appliances - sealing up an RV for sub-zero weather, closes off that much needed ventilation - you'll be dead in a few hours if you turn on your gas stove or gas generator - without it. #1 cause of winter deaths: people turning on a gas generator and not opening all of the windows!

Make sure you have sat iron posts and pans for cooking over an open fire.

For "extras", thing you should not be without:

  • 2 sub zero sleeping bags - one -30F and one -40F, one inside the other
  • heavy thick fleece blankets and minkie fur blankets - several
  • a full leanth fur coat - real fur, with the hides still on - look for a 1920's era mink at Goodwill
  • a full length fleece coat to wear under the fur coat
  • a fur hat
  • a knit hat to wear under the fur hat
  • fur lined boats - fur all the way to the toes
  • snow shoes


Know this: in temps this cold, a tent is warmer than a metal vehicle. I say this from experience.

When the temps are that low a heater does no good, chances are it's too cold to get the car battery to turn over the engine, and if you can't get the car/RV started than you can't get the heater to come on. Homeless people freeze to death inside cars in this kind of weather. Being up off the ground, cold wind goes right underneath and chills the inside to even colder temps than the outside. And a car/RV is metal - it holds in the cold VERY well.

The tent is going to be much warmer. Smaller, so not as much area to heat. Personally, I do not have a tent, I have a 8x6 tarp, hung from a tree to make a "tent" - tarp is thinker, stronger, and warmer than the think nylon tents are made out of.

I wear 3 dresses one on top of the other, 2 kimono (full Japanese w/ obi etc - not "American style" housecoat kimonos) over that, a fleece hunters jacket over that, a full length winter coat over that, and a 200 year old full length mink coat over that, a knit hat on my head and a fur hat over that, a pair of gloves worn inside a pair of mittens. Than me and my 12 cats wrap up in a fleece blanket, get inside of a -30F sub-zero sleeping bag, and zip that up inside a -40F sub zero sleeping bag. I built a large nest, like a bird's nest, out of 3 bales of hay (opened and unbaled), and the sleeping bags were places inside of this, than spare hay pulled over the top once me and the cats were inside the bags.

Keep a shovel in the tent, if it gets buried in snow you'll suffocate - you got to dig out an air hole so you can breath. Dig it near the bottom in the front and a second near the top at the back (to keep the air circulating), NEVER a single one straight over head! (which could cause a cave in and death from being smothered by snow.) Brace a large log standing upright, in the center of your tent to keep the snow sliding off and stoop your tent from collapsing.

If you have access to it, line the inside of your tent with hay or cardboard, to hold in heat. Stack bales of hay around the outside and bury those in snow, these keep out the cold.

THIS is how I survive on a beach, on the Atlantic Ocean, under a tarp, during Maine's harsh sub-zero costal winters. And no - I WOULDN'T live any place else. People ask me this all the time: "Why the heck don't you live someplace else?" I like where I live. I love this type of weather. I prefer cold and snow to sun and heat. It's not an ideal lifestyle for most people, but it's the perfect lifestyle for me.

 
Five months in a 21' class C so far with no problem. Loving it -- but I could understand someone with claustrophobia not being able to stand it. I'm the type that loves tight, cozy places. This is perfect.

Also keep in mind that a 21' C has more per person space with one person, including storage and tanks, than a 30' C with two people. Yet nobody says a 30' C is too small for two people to full time in. One person doesn't need so much space, unless they have problems with closed-in spaces.
 
Well, not much to add, but we went to AZ this year for the first time in a 31 ft. 5er with a bedroom slide and living room slide. Left about a 2600sq ft. home behind. I came to the conclusion I am sick and tired of cleaning a house way to big for us. It was me, my husband and our yellow lab for 2-1/2 months.....I absolutely loved being in that small trailer that I could clean top to bottom in one day AND do laundry and go jeeping in the desert the other 6 days of the week!!
I hope this person went for it!!
 
I'd like to know what happened to the original poster too. 

Next spring I'm taking off in a 23 foot vintage trailer.  I love my funky Yellowstone, but she does lack certain comforts that the more modern units have.

Oh, and my 40 pound dog will be with me.  :)    Let the adventure commence.

Whirlwind
 
I giggle at these types of posts.... yea, I think it's possible.... I lived in basically a 20'x8' box in a WZ for a year without RV comforts.  Although I didn't have a dog with me.
 
When my daughter and grand daughter (11 at the time)  moved out (they were with me their whole lives) a few years ago, I got rid of the big house and rented a room for 2 yrs with a nice lady and her collge son. But at $850mo, I decided that was a "waste" of $$$$.  I owned a 22' Lazydaze class C that I used for camping.  I started looking at it to live in.

Climbing up & down the over-cab bed was no joy, and it was just gonna be too small.  Even though I worked all day, and really only needed it to sleep in.

So......I looked around and bought a 1994 32' Bounder class A that was like new.  Sold the Lazydaze for about 1/3 of what I paid for the Bounder.  Yaeh !!!

I LOVE living in this Bounder.  Its like an 'efficiency' apt.  Living room up front, with computer table.  Nice kitchen w/booth.  And a queen bedroom.  Decent size bathroom with tub/shower. 

Just to let you know how much I LOVE living in it.....I recently inhereted an 8 yr old 1150sf mobile home in the best park of the area.  I put it up for sale, even though it is only 10 miles from here, and would only increase my monthly living cost by $500 mo. which I can easily afford.

Even though I still work 5 days a week, it just feels like camping in the Bounder.

3 yrs more and I will retire at 62..YAEH !!!  Full timing....here I come !!!! ;D
 
For two months I have been living in a 24 ft TT. The plan is to spend six month living in it. I have a 60# German Shepherd with me. The space is not confining at all. Many hours of the day I am out and about, but when staying indoors all day I don't find it a problem. I think it helps that during the last year I went from a 3 bedroom house to a one bedroom basement apartment and now to the TT.
I am in OR and it is Nov. so it is cool here. My only concern right now is I go through about 7 gal. of propane in 9 days. I keep the heat at 60 deg while sleeping, and turn it to 65 deg when I get up. While I am gone I set it at 50 deg and turn off the water heater. I would think it would last longer but what do I know? If I stay here all winter I am thinking of getting hay bales to put around as a skirt. And maybe plastic on the windows.
All in all I am having a great time.
 
Google  RVSue  She has a blog that might interest you and answer some of your ?????
 
Hi,
  I am happy your happy in full time in camper.  Your thinking on placing hay bales around outside, think about it.
That tends to invite mice when you do that.  Whats better is insulation board cut down and reinforce it with duck tape or whatever you will save maybe half of your LP gas. 
Have a great time,
John
 
I'm planning in doing the same as the OP. But it will be in socal. I'm debating between a class b 20 footer or a class c. a class c would be dandy (want that cab over bed), but I am wary of parking a 20fter class c anywhere other than a campground here in south cali. don't want to have to use rv parks, but would hate to have to deal with police every night enforcing city ordinances. we'll see. still have a few months before i can take the plunge.
 

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