correct way to use the toilet in the MH

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Why is it that RVers who use chemicals in their holding tanks think that every RVer uses (or should use) chemicals in their holding tanks and RVers who use only water in their holding tanks know it is best to use only water and no chemicals in their holding tanks?  I had a lady come up to me in a Camping World store and ask me what chemicals I use in my holding tanks.  I told her I use only water and that she should never (or almost never) use chemicals in her holding tanks.  She couldn't believe it.  She had never heard of that.

Where are these RVers getting the impression that they need chemicals in their holding tanks?  From the dealers?  From the movies?  Where?  They sure aren't getting it here from the RV Forum!
 
Rolf, doesn't it strike you odd that the only folks complaining of odors are those using chemicals and they think the answer is more chemicals. 
 
Rolf, doesn't it strike you odd that the only folks complaining of odors are those using chemicals and they think the answer is more chemicals.

Yeah that does seem to be the case, and they're the ones that are always wondering if there's a better chemical than the one they're using because their's isn't working!  :eek: :eek:
 
We stopped using chemicals in the holding tanks long before we joined the Forum so it's not just the folks here who don't use chemicals. And if there are a bunch of people here who only use water and don't dump daily and don't have a holding tank odor, shouldn't that tell the chemical users something?

Wendy
Dillon Reservoir, Colorado
 
Lou (onaquest) said:
Mark, why 13 RV's in 25 years?  Did the black tanks all rot out from the chemicals.  ??? ::)

Sorry, I couldn't resist. ;) :D ;D

This certainly wasn't funny.
 
Wendy, I had a stroll down memory lane when I saw your location of Dillon Reservoir. 
Most folks would have no idea what a spectacular location that is.  I just love the Loveland pass area on Rt 6.  The climb to the tunnel on I70 sometimes seems tougher than the pass.  I'm not sure of the grades on either road.

I envy you, my dear. ;D 
 
Lou, I'm in love with this place. We're at Pine Cove campground. No hookups, no water, no chemicals in the holding tanks (staying on topic) and it is absolutely wonderful. We can drag the kayak out of the cove and leave it sitting 20-feet in front of the coach or take it out into the lake any time we feel like it. Unfortunately, we're leaving tomorrow heading over Hoosier Pass.

Wendy
Dillon Reservoir Colorado
 
Its all marketing folks.

If I'm a chemical company and I can convince you that the only way to keep your black tank from smelling is to use a chemicals, that's money in my pocket. Then I sell you "special" RV toilet paper that plugs up your black tank so I can sell you a TP dissolving chemical. I make money off of you two times more.

Why do people think they have to use chemicals? Because every RV magazine they pick up tells them that they need to. Every "starter" package that RV dealers give you when you buy a new RV includes chemicals. Why? Because he sells chemicals and he wants you to buy them. You don't need them but he isn't going to tell you that. He wants to make money selling them to you.

Why isn't there a label on the toilet lid that says "USE NO CHEMICALS"? Because then people would know they don't need chemicals and the chemical companies and RV parts companies couldn't make money off you.

If RVIA would mandate that a label be placed by the toilet giving instructions on how to use the toilet people new to RVing would know not to use chemicals.

Do you realize how much stuff we buy that we have no use for but someone has convinced us that we can't live without it.
 
Coca cola and ( very expensive ) bottled tap water spring to mind.. and thats worldwide!  But on topic we have 2 houses both in the country with septic tanks.  They work in exactly the same way as RV black tanks ( as nature intended ) and I check then about once a year as they are in constant use.  To do this I remove a 24" x 18" cover to see inside.  You could put your head inside and all you would smell is a slight mustiness- not that I do it on a regular basis!  An RV holding tank works on the same natural proccess and if left alone no odors
 
Mark, why 13 RV's in 25 years?

I'm not up to 13, but we had 3 different trailers in our first round of RVing back in the mid 70's and in this go-around we have had 5 in the last 13 years, for a total; of 8 in about 17 years.  I think it is pretty common to trade RVs for something bigger/newer/nicer/different style or whatever.
 
I suspect that a large percentage of RVers DO use chemicals - the amount of shelf space in an RV store suggests that must be true. That doesn't mean it is necessary or helpful.
 
I keep forgetting to drop the starter chemical off at the dealer when I'm there (I really do not want that chemical in the motor home, the bottle is still sealed)

As to the person who said they never met an RVer who did not use chemicals

Well, if you count H2O (Water) as a chemical, which it is, you still have not

If you don't count H20, Then you have met many of us

I do use a waste digester type (Not chemical, biological) when I'm parked without hookups.. This is not very often. but that, and cleaning are only times I put anything in the tank other than.. What goes in the tank naturally.  And I only clean (Geo Method) when I'm putting the rig in storage
 
I am a relatively new RVer and will admit, I assumed that you used chemicals until I began reading this forum.  I have not used chemicals in the tank other than that first tank and have had moderate success.  

However, I will have to disagree about the "natural bacterial action" of the holding tank leading to reduced smell.  If recall my molecular biology, the "smell" is from small microbes know as "methanogens", which live in your intestines and digest organic material.  The smell tells you they are alive and working.  A septic system is different in that the liquids are filtered off and you have a long resident period where solids are converted into inorganic materials.  There is too much water and not enough time for this to happen in your holding tank.

I have come to believe the key to "odor management" is airflow.  Your tank vent stack should be carrying away the odors, however, if you create a negative pressure environment where you have a vacuum inside your coach (turn on a fantastic fan without enough windows open, for example), the air will move the wrong way and you will get odor.  This also happens to me if I open the ceiling vents while moving.

I also believe tank design is a factor.  Flatter wider tanks will present more surface area for ambient air to interact with and thus will tend to have more problems than a deeper more vertical tank design.

I have installed a "lil stanker" vent fan and that has eliminated 95% of our problems, however that little 3 watt motor is no match for the vacuum created by opening a roof vent while at speed, so we have to be careful with that.

I have never had an issue while stationary, only moving.

Again, I don't use chemicals because they don't fix the problem...which is airflow.
 
I agree with McGuy.  Things don't stay long enough for a weekender like me for the decomposition process to complete.  I start with an empty tank Friday at 5PM and finish with an empty tank at noon on Sunday.  However, chemicals or not, whatever the end results is will be the same, it's all going down the drain. 

I don't smell it because my toilet keeps it's water, so the smell can only go up the vent stack (outside).

I do have problems with smell too because driving with the roof vents open, but I convinced the smell is more coming from the gray tank.  With movement, the p-traps get emptied enough for the air to flow through the drains, combined with the negative pressure from the roof vents and voila, smell.  Let every faucet run for 10 seconds on arrival, open all the windows and fan, smell gone in a matter of minutes.
 
I have to admit that reading this thread has been entertaining.  I guess the whole chemicals/no chemicals debate stems from the first response which said not to leave the dump valves open because of the smell.  It worries me that people would consider leaving the dump valves open, but it's for an entirely different reason.  A buddy of mine stayed in his 5'er for an extended period of time with the black tank valve open.  This resulted in a clog so bad that the black tank had to be removed and replaced.  I don't know if my friend's experience is unique or not, but I don't  dump the black tank until it's more than 3/4 full and the water has had a chance to dissolve the toilet paper and the...uh...material.  BTW, I've never used chemicals and never had a problem with smells.  I, however, believe that it is marketing and not money that is the root of all evil.  ;D

-Dave
 
Seems like we haven't had a "black tank" thread for long while, how refreshing... ;D

I have nothing to add, the subject is a real stinker.  ;D

Hopefully readers will appreciate the "refreshing" ideas.

carson FL

 
I am not saying anyone is wrong but I don't understand the train of thought.

Most of the smell of decomposing organic matter comes from the methane and other off gassing of the bacteria as they do their thing. So if I am letting the little guys decompose to their little hearts content are they not releasing more Methane if there are more of the cute little fuzzy bacterial fellows?

A lady walks into the doctor?s office and says "Doc you have to help me with this gas problem. I have gas all the time, it does not smell and the toots are quiet but I have gas all the time. In fact I have let out several toots since I cam in here." the doctor pulls out his perscription pad and scribbles 2 prescriptions. He hands them to the lady and says "Mrs. Jones, here is a perscription for a gas relief tablet and another one for the antihistamine to clear up your stuffy nose. Also please see my assistant for a referral to an ear doctor so he can help with your hearing loss"

I often wonder if it is a learning curve thing. If I am parked with hookups and can drain and use water as needed I don't use chemicals and have no smell. However if I am dry-docking in 100* weather and have to conserve the available water and we are there for more then a few days I can assure you there is a need for chemicals after 4 or 5 days.

Please school me if I am wrong but both my biology and chemistry book learnin says different.

Wayne
 
Methane or other gasses depend on the crap in the tank and the nature of the bacteria at work.  Individual body chemistry may even have an effect. As will the sensitivity of individual noses and their attitude towards what we might tern "natural odors". What one person might call "country air", another might term "nasty odor".

Our rig is in only occasional use this summer and routinely sits in the yard with a partial tankful and no odor, or at least none that we find offensive. Summer temps here in Florida run pretty consistent at 92-94 degrees. Once in awhile we get a bit or aroma and may toss in a bit of enzyme treatment, but probably not more than 1-2 a year. I also use a tankful of fresh water and a box of septic tank enzyme such as Rid-ex every 12-18 months to clean the sludge off the  tank walls and help keep the tank sensors working.
 
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