WalMart campground?

[Smoky]

Lorna:

Sorry you ran into that situation with improper camping at WM. 

In our first three years of Rving we have had only pleasant experiences at WM and everyone extremely well behaved.  One thing we like about staying overnight at WM is that we tend to meet the more serious full timers and longhaulers as opposed to the more predominant weekenders at CGs.  Nothing against weekenders, we were once among them.  But I don;t ever find them at WMS and it is fun to roam among some serious long haulers as an alternate experieince.  I have learned an awful lot from meeting people at WM in the evenings.

Just as an example, in Gillette Wyoming, on our way out here, we meet a man that made weekly runs back and forth between the mountains of West Virginia, and Idaho, carrying a rare breed of horse.  He owned ranches in both states and moved his stock back and forth in the most beautiful combo horse van / RV I have ever seen.  It was huge and the human living part of it was at least a 35 footer, and three horses in the additional van portion of it. 

He would do these runs in 72 hours.  I asked him why so fast, why not enjoy the roses along the way.  He laughed and explained he carried only enough feed for 72 hours and needed to empty the manure rack before it got too ripe.     His living quarters were awesome.  Even the horse quarters were awesome.  He was a most interesting fellow and I would never have come across someone like him in a regular campground.

This is just one of many many examples of interesting people I have met on the "long haul" circuit.  These people are not bums but are very savvy travelers, and many of them are very well to do and successful.

We were aided in our happy landing here at El Mirage by another person we met in Ohio, who compared the merits of Tucson, Phoenix, and Yuma having spent many years at each location.

I might add there are also some very gorgeous WM locations.  I have watched sunrises at Ogden and sunsets at Laramie, and was overtaken by the scenic beauty in those places along with a number of other scenic WMs.

I feel no embarrassment or reason to excuse the fact that we find WMs great places to overnight in, especially when on the move.  I am very thankful that WM provides these convenient rest stops adjacent to the Interstates.  I love regular campgrounds too!   

[John From Detroit]

Tom, I'm guessing that you were in the WalMart on Hammer Lane. It's as real junky place. My experience is that the stores mirror the  neighborhoods, poor neighborhoods, poor stores.

Not just Wal-Mart.  I've seen many chain stores, grocery, hardware, and other where I"ve visited more than one store in the chain.

In most all cases you could tell what the inside of the store would look like by looking around the outside.

Graffitty on the walls, trash lying about, Junk cars parked along every street... Drive on

Clean and neat, well mowed lawns, prperly painted houses which appeared well maintained... Stop in

In fact, even the Service is different... My wife was complaining about a grocery store (Supermarket) where she was getting worse and worse servcie... I found her another store in the same chain...Of course it's in a better neighborhood... But she could not believe they were the same chain... Was for sure a different store.

Where as the "City" store was "What do you want?" (with attidute) the suburban store was "how can we help you?"

[caltex]

That blows my theory.

[DonTom]

We once overnighted near a marina where I was "working" an event when our boat club brought 80 boats into the marina for the weekend (all paid their dues of course). At 2.00am I awoke to a loud rapping on the door of the coach and a bright light shining through the blinds. I knew this had to be the local police and decided to lay there quietly, pretending nobody was home. Right then Chris awoke yelling "someone's at the door".

Why should I care if the post I reply to is more than 120 days old?  Anyway, your recent post to the link here led me to this one.

I want to mention that once Tom & I parked for the night in the desert, down a dirt road, a good 100 miles west of Las Vegas (about 20 years ago in our 84 class B Chevy van). It was dark and we assumed we were far enough from the freeway. But was wrong, we could be seen from the interstate at first light (that's when I am always in my deepest sleep!)  Anyway, far from the interstate, at first light a cop banged on the door and woke us up. He wanted to know what we were doing there and he  checked our ID's and so on, because (he said) "many people have been murdered in Vegas lately and often bodies are dumped right around the area we were in."

Other than that little minor detail, I don't think there was any problem with us boondocking there.

-Don- SF, CA

[DonTom]

Oh no, I see another TP discussion starting 

Anyone wishing to read about the infamous RV Forum Toilet paper test, developed by George Mullen, and its results click the Library button above, select the Miscellaneous category and click Toilet paper test results.

Whatever happened to George? I remember he was quite active when this forum was on Compuserve.

-Don- SF, CA

[Tom]

Whatever happened to George?

George comes by occasionally, but not very often. He hasn't been a regular since we moved off CS.

[Phil]

Whatever happened to George? I remember he was quite active when this forum was on Compuserve.

George is still around.  I have lunch with him everytime I get to SD.

PhilB

[DonTom]

George is still around.  I have lunch with him everytime I get to SD.

PhilB

Great! Tell him we all miss him and to get back on line here! 

Besides, maybe he will have a new TP test for us.

-Don- SF, CA

[papahog]

I like the Walmart Policies about overnight parking.  If I am traveling and just passing through, Wallmart it is.  If I am staying a while I like an RV park where I can hook up, put out my slide, take a shower and relax.  Ofter these times I stop early and stay late.  No hurry to get back on the road.

But if I am passing through.  I stop crawl in the front of the trailer and go to bed.  Sleep a few hours and hit the Road. 

[jeverden]

When we are travelling and have been driving about 6 hours and it is getting dark.  We usually will stop at a Walmart to sleep then leave first thing in the am.

It goes like this:  Stop at 7pm; close the curtains, enter Walmart, buy supplies (RV) Groceries, toys for the kids, magazines, movies, etc...  Eat at the McDonalds, etc...
Head back to the RV, kids watch a movie on the battery powered DVD player or the laptop, we relax and read a book or a magazine, etc...

Usually we have at this point spent well over $200.00  So NO, I do not feel guilty for staying there till the morning, when we enter once again and get breakfast.

In fact it would be more affordable going to a CG - NOT ABOUT SAVING MONEY, it is about convenience and having Walmart to fall back on instead of searching around for a place to park for 6-7 hours.
This is why Walmart allows this.  They make huge profits on RVers.

Usually when we are at a walmart there are only 2 -3 others doing the same.

Jason

[Ned]

As a courtesy and also for your security, you should ask permission from the store manager to stay overnight and where they would prefer you park.

[LindaH]

I guess I don't share that view Ron. Like WalMart or any other business, campgrounds need to make money to survive. Boycotting CGs in an area that has such an ordinance merely helps to drive CGs out of business and that can only hurt RVers. Why strongly support anything that can hurt RVers?

While I agree with you that campgrounds, like other businesses, need to make money, I'm with Ron when he says that he boycotts towns that have passed a "you can't park any place but in an RV park" ordinances at the behest of the RV parks...Billings, MT is a prime example a few years back.

Think about it this way:  What if all the restaurants in a town banned together and had a law passed that all RVers were prohibited from eating in their own rig, but had to, instead, eat at one of the restaurants in the area?  Outrageous, right?  Well, it's the same principal.

If RV parks would provide an area within their campground where people could come in an dry camp for a reasonable fee (certainly not more than $10, $5 would be better), they'd probably get a lot of "Wal Mart campers" to use their place. 

I agree that there are people who abuse the intent of overnight parking at Wal Mart, or other parking lots.  We've seen RVs with their jacks/levelers down, their awnings and slides out, toads or tow vehicles unhooked...and in some cases, nowhere in evidence.  Parking lots, ideally, should be used for those people who drive late into the evening and are gone first thing in the morning.

Having said all the above, we are not Wal-Mart overnighters...or any other parking lot, for that matter.  Mainly because we're usually off the road by 2 PM and who wants to spend the afternoon and early evening in a parking lot?  Certainly not us!  We also have a dog and a parking lot is a terrible place for walking a dog.  Finally, our fifth wheel has 3 slides and the downstairs is unuseable with the two big slides in. 

On the other hand, we rarely stay in RV parks, either.  There are lots of city/county/BLM/USFS/COE/NP and other places where we can park for free or for very little to be using expensive RV parks.  Tom, maybe you can afford to spend $25 and up per night for an RV park, but we came to the conclusion after our first year of fulltiming back in 1998, that if we continued to do that, we'd soon go broke and one of us would have to go back to work!

[Tom]

LindaH, that was an old message you quoted/replied to. I don't even remember posting it, but our (my) views on camping at WM haven't changed in almost 25 years of RVing.

...I'm with Ron when he says that he boycotts towns that have passed a "you can't park any place but in an RV park" ...

I wouldn't have a clue where to find a list of such towns but, if I did, I might be more inclined to stay there.

What if all the restaurants in a town banned together and had a law passed that all RVers were prohibited from eating in their own rig, but had to, instead, eat at one of the restaurants in the area?

Hypothetical of course, and not the same thing. No town, city or state would/could pass such a law. Might as well try to pass a law that folks aren't allowed to breath while in their RV.

If RV parks would provide an area within their campground where people could come in an dry camp for a reasonable fee (certainly not more than $10, $5 would be better), they'd probably get a lot of "Wal Mart campers" to use their place.

I'd be supportive of such a move. RV parks might enjoy some additional business, but I doubt it would be from folks who are habitual WM campers. The rationale I hear from these folks has more to do with proximity to freeways/highways and easy access (no check in) than to saving money; I always hear/read that it costs them more to camp at WM because of the incremental money they spend in the store that they wouldn't have spent if they stayed in a regular campground.  

[Alaskansnowbirds]

Hypothetical of course, and not the same thing. No town, city or state would/could pass such a law. Might as well try to pass a law that folks aren't allowed to breath while in their RV.

Lets put it in terms you might understand better.

They just passed a law that you can not spend the night on your boat anywhere on the delta except tied up at dock in a marina.   

[Tom]

LOL Don, another hypothetical scenario.

[Alaskansnowbirds]

LOL Don, another hypothetical scenario.

Why is it hypothetical? They did it in Billings, MT and Clark County, NV. The only difference is the type of vehicle. Until they changed the law I couldn't even park at my sons house in Henderson. All it would take is all the marina owners to convince the county commissioners to pass the ordinance.

The campground owners in Clark County couldn't get the county commissioners to pass the ordnance so they went to the health department and convinced them that it was a health issue. After all we all know that any boats that aren't tied up to a dock is dumping their trash and pumping their sewage overboard. Which makes as much sense as saying that all RVs that park anywhere other than a campground dumps their tanks on the ground. We both know that's bull but that's what the campground owners convinced the Clark County Health Dept.

[LindaH]

Hypothetical of course, and not the same thing. No town, city or state would/could pass such a law. Might as well try to pass a law that folks aren't allowed to breath while in their RV.

Of course it's hypothetical.  And of course no town would pass such a law. 

However, that's not the point.  The point I was trying to get across is that there is no difference between a bunch of restaurants getting together and trying to get their community to pass a law that RVers must use one of their establishments to eat at than there is for a bunch of RV parks to get together and get their community to pass a law that RVers must use one of THEIR establishments to spend the night.

It's also no different than Don's hypothetical case of marinas getting together and trying to get a law pass that boaters can't stay any place other than a marina.  And, frankly, I'm surprised they haven't tried!

[Tom]

Don,

I've previously reported that our county chose to "clarify the building code" to disallow the parking of RVs, boats, or (boat) trailers. The actual wording is that no more 80% may be visible from the street. I also reported that I received a ticket while away on a trip for a small boat trailer sitting in my side yard. More recently, I reported that we got a ticket stuck on our coach by the local Sheriff when it was parked in the street for approx 90 minutes; When I called the Sheriff's office to challenge it, I was told by the Desk Sergeant to be sure to move it after 72 hours, but it must be moved more than a foot.

Our local ordinances are a bit confusing; There's a sign as you enter our community that clearly says "on-street parking of RVs and trailers limited to 3 hours". There's a separate rule that gives us a 72 hour waiver for "loading and unloading". Then the county threw in the additional wrinkle.

These rules were not driven by campgrounds or marinas, and none of this has anything to do with why we don't camp at WalMart.

[Tom]

The point I was trying to get across is ....

Understood your point, but the point in my original message in this old topic was that I don't support a boycott of campgrounds in a town having a "no stay at WalMart" ordinance, as this could result in campgrounds going out of business and ultimately hurt RVers.

And, frankly, I'm surprised they haven't tried!

If local marinas were successful in such a move (highly unlikely), they wouldn't have the berths to accommodate the additional demand. Expanding wouldn't be an option in most cases, although a few clearly have that option if they're prepared to go through the permitting process.

[kevin]

ya just gotta love it all, codes,rules,lawsuits and such. They tried, the city that is, one of those NO OVERNIGHT PARKING rules in our town once, after half a dozen wal-mart trucks got tickets sitting in a wal-mart parking lot, that rule, or LAW went away.

I gotta say my feelings on this are as follows. I drive until I get there or I'm too tired to carry on(I know that's not save) anyway, I will stop at a truck stop, or a wal-mart or a cg whatever is closest or eaisest to get to. I have no problem with the noise at the truckstops, and the lot lizard's don't  usually come around a MH. The wal-marts I park beside the trucks and stay outta the way,after talking to the manger first.

our last trip to florida, I tried to stay at cg's only which meant stoping earlier than I'm used to, and I gotta say some of these cg's are in need of upgrades, and just overall clean up. Either way ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

[Smoky]

Tom:

Don's (Alaskan Snowbird) is NOT a hypothetical marine analogy.

In Annapolis Maryland, for example, the local communities now send boats out into the bay attempting to charge fees for anchoring.  Many similar examples are rampant all up and down the East coast inland waterways.  Boondocking on the water is becoming an endangered species.

I am sure you enjoy a peaceful night anchoring out.  I am also sure you enjoy marinas that offer luxury amenities.

Why not see the similarity with land yachts?

Wal-mart let's you anchor out with delightful security and convenience.  Boondocking at the Grand canyon eliminates the convenience and security, but allows awesome beauty.  Overnighting at a RV Resort provides wonderful amenities and luxury services.  The same choices offered a seagoing captain ought to be allowed to a land-going captain aye?

Smoky

[seilerbird]

I agree that there are people who abuse the intent of overnight parking at Wal Mart, or other parking lots.  We've seen RVs with their jacks/levelers down, their awnings and slides out, toads or tow vehicles unhooked...and in some cases, nowhere in evidence.  Parking lots, ideally, should be used for those people who drive late into the evening and are gone first thing in the morning.

I do not understand why you say people who put down their jacks, etc, are abusing the intent of overnight parking. What anyone does in a Walmart parking lot is between Walmart and the individual. Your opinion in the matter does not matter. Most Walmarts have security guards and if they don't object then why should you? Why is it you think you should decided what a business does with their parking lot?

[seilerbird]

You are a braver man than I Smoky. We once overnighted near a marina where I was "working" an event when our boat club brought 80 boats into the marina for the weekend (all paid their dues of course). At 2.00am I awoke to a loud rapping on the door of the coach and a bright light shining through the blinds. I knew this had to be the local police and decided to lay there quietly, pretending nobody was home. Right then Chris awoke yelling "someone's at the door".

Standing there half awake in my PJs, I tried explaining to the officer "we're with those boats over there", but he just said "move on, we don't allow RV camping here". At 2.30am we took a room in the Marriott at the marina and put the coach in their parking lot, with permission of course. This episode probably contributes to my reluctance to stay at places like WM.

I just don't understand your position, Tom. You illegally spent the night on the street in some town and got woke up in the middle of the night and were told to move because you were breaking the law. And for that reason you don't want to spend the night legally at a Walmart?

[Tom]

LOL Tom, I didn't  know it was illegal until I got woken up in the wee hours. My "position" is simply that the episode (happened back in the 80's) I described in that 4 year old message made me (permanently) gun shy.

I can't comment on the legality of camping at WalMart. I've seen signs at the entrance to WM parking lots saying "no overnight parking/camping", but folks here have argued that a city can't impose those kinds of restrictions on private property. I've reported several times on our conflicting local parking ordinances, and recently described a situation where our coach was ticketed for being in the street 90 minutes; I called the Sheriff's office, explained that I "legally" had 72 hours, and was told it was OK provided I moved more than a foot every 72 hours. I've also reported an incident where I was ticketed in my absence by a county enforcement officer for a boat trailer (sans boat) being in my side yard.

[seilerbird]

By legally parking at Walmart I was only refering to the Walmarts that don't have the signs. If a city passes an ordinance that doesn't allow staying over night there then I don't stay there. I subscribe to overnightparking.com and check on the legality of spending the night there before I actually get there and I haven't had a problem since I subscribed.

[Tom]

We all pays our money and takes our choices. We prefer to stay at campgrounds, even if it does seem illogical or irrational to others.

[DonTom]

We all pays our money and takes our choices. We prefer to stay at campgrounds, even if it does seem illogical or irrational to others.

We just try to find a nice place for the doggies to run around. The worse campground we saw for doggies was the KOA in Calgary. It wouldn't be all that  bad if they didn't have a fence all the way around it.  We couldn't find anything in that area and wasted hours looking and gave up. So we went north to Red Deer and found a very nice rest area to boondock in that area that the doggies really enjoyed.

Here at the very crowded & loud  Devon RV Park, at least there's the Saskatchewan River right next to it where the doggies can run around off leash.

And there's wireless internet here that covers the entire rather large park. But my signal strength says "low". But it still works perfectly, just as if I didn't know.

We've never stayed at a Wal*Mart, but we have seen many rest areas that we prefer to campgrounds. Many up here have hiking trails (or sometimes unused dirt roads) starting at the rest area. Finding a place the doggies like is what's most important.

This RV park has wireless, so I don't have to use my expensive roaming 3G. But no TV cable here. I can live without that. Tommy has his Chinese DVD's to watch. I guess I can practice my Cantonese. But I think I should learn English better first.

What does a Wal*Mart have to offer?  Even without the doggies, I don't think we would stay there unless there was nothing else for a hundred miles or so (unlikely).  We would take a shady rest stop (and there are many up here) any day over any Wal-Mart.

We didn't see much of Calgary, but we will spend a few days here in the Edmonton area and visit the famous mall and all that. We already got a rented car. They came to pick us up to get the car after the RV was hooked up. Very convenient.

BTW, coming into Canada, they only wanted to see our passports and ask a bunch of questions.  Questions  such as where we work or worked, if we have criminal records, ever had a DUI (both are a "no") own guns (we own many guns) and if any have EVER been inside this RV (no.)

Then the boarder guard asked, as usual, how Tom & I know each other (I was driving at the time, so they are asking me).

I made it easy for him. I said "we're a gay couple that's been together for 35 years".

And then he (the border guard)  just said "oh, okay" and let us go. All of this only took a few minutes.

But I know on the way back into the USA, the RV will get searched as usual and will take a good hour or so. The USA is a lot harder to return to than Canada is to get into. At least for two guys in a RV. And that was true even before 9-11-01. At least for us. We have yet to come back to the USA without a search of the RV and our records checked.

But at least we know what to expect, as we have been up in Canada many time before. Just not this part (Alberta). But we may enter the USA via Vancover. We are planning on going through Jasper National Park and from there all the way to Vancouver.

BTW, if you want good Hong Kong style food, do NOT go to Hong Kong.   Go to the Vancouver area. Seems all the good cooks from Hong Kong went to Vancouver. We're going to Vancouver just for the Dim Sum.

Devon RV Park, Devon, AB (near SW Edmonton)

[Tom]

Don,

They must think you look like an unlikely couple  

I'm reminded of a time I and a colleague visited a number of Japanese companies. The colleague was a California guy, but he inherited his looks and size from his Japanese mother. Everywhere we went folks would speak to him in Japanese, but he didn't speak a word of it, and we'd have an embarrassing moment when our hosts realized their mistake. Part way through the trip, I decided to introduce him as my brother. Our hosts would look back and forth between us, seeing my European features and his Japanese features and diminutive size. I could see their confusion, before they realized I was joking, but it broke the ice and prevented further embarrassing moments.

[sheltie]

Tom - MUCH earlier in this thread (2005) you made reference to checking out the library, misc, toilet paper test results.  That subject doesn't exist under misc.  Could it be that we as a race have evolved to the point that we don't need TP anymore?  In that case I'm sub-human.  Anyway, if it exists, where can it be located?

[Wendy]

Tom - MUCH earlier in this thread (2005) you made reference to checking out the library, misc, toilet paper test results.  That subject doesn't exist under misc.  Could it be that we as a race have evolved to the point that we don't need TP anymore?  In that case I'm sub-human.  Anyway, if it exists, where can it be located?

It's under Waste Systems. Try this link.

Toilet paper is one of the Forum's favorite discussions 

Wendy