Gelcoat is cloudy

Hello out there... We recently purchased a 1997 Country Coach.  I've been trying to shine the sidewalls without any success.  I have washed, used a rubbing compound w/ an electric buffer and waxed w/an eletric buffer and the sidewalls are still cloudy and dull.  In fact, I think it's worse than before I started.  I checked the manual and it does say the sidewalls have a gelcoat.  BigBlue is giving me the Bluesssss.  Any suggestions?  Thanks!

I hate to be the one to tell you this but I am pretty sure that using an electric buffer, or any powered tool on the gelcoat is a bad idea and will do more damage than good. I do not think that the gelcoat is by design, durable enough to stand up to the heat generated by electric/motorized buffing. Hand buffing, as I understand it, is ok.

Not good news.  Isn't the gelcoat on an RV the same as a boat?  An electric buffer is recommended for renewing the gelcoat on a boat.

try 3m's fiberglass finisher and restorer, 18.00 a bottle but one bottle did my 35' class a and it workd wonderfully.  I put it on with a power waxer. removed it by hand. I got a great shine.

The gel on an RV is generally thinner than a boat,though it varies by manufacturer. It's not really a gel coat on the side walls, which are not laid up in a mold with a layer of high gloss "gel" resin for the exterior. The sidewalls are made of laminated panels, the outermost skin having some shine to it.  The front and rear cap, though, are molded and do have a traditional gel coat.

That said, if you used low speed and didn't polish through the surface layer, you probably didn't hurt it. It does, however, tend to swirl rather than shine when power polished.

BigBlue said:

Not good news.  Isn't the gelcoat on an RV the same as a boat?  An electric buffer is recommended for renewing the gelcoat on a boat.

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I am getting a little confused myself. The RV dealer told me to not buy products designed for RV's & boats since it is painted you would want to treat it just like a car. With this said I used Maguire's wax on one side and mothers wax on the other to determine which product worked better (I already had some of each from the cars).  The black paint on the basement doors don't appear as brilliant as they did before, I guess BigBlues description of cloudy would be a good word for it.

mphy98 said:

try 3m's fiberglass finisher and restorer, 18.00 a bottle but one bottle did my 35' class a and it worked wonderfully.  I put it on with a power waxer. removed it by hand. I got a great shine.

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The above comment from mphy98 leads me to believe that I should be using RV/boat products instead?

If it's full body paint, it's unlikely to be painted over gelcoat. But the paint may have a clear coat on top. Applying fiberglass restorer, which typically contains abrasives, made either for boats or RVs, is likely to damage the surface of your paint, e.g. you'll see lots of small scratches from the abrasives. I don't know what the abrasives would do to clear coat, but I doubt it would be good.

On our full body painted coach, I use a liquid wax such as TurtleWax (Maguires makes a similar product) once or twice a year. In between, all I do is wash with a car wash such as ZipWax prior to leaving on a trip. Every time I wash it I remark to my wife "the coach comes up looking really nice".

I had great luck with Marine color restorer which isn't much more than kerosene and wax but it does a great job of getting the residue off of gel coat. Starbrite and Maguairs, and West Marine NanoTech are three that I know of.

Dar said:

I am getting a little confused myself. The RV dealer told me to not buy products designed for RV's & boats since it is painted you would want to treat it just like a car.

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With your 2007 model, yes.  You have full body paint just like a car.  Older 1990s rigs were commonly finished in colored gel-coat like Gary describes, more like a boat.  Two different surfaces and two different methods of care.  Unfortunately for us with gel-coated rigs, it doesn't respond well to years of sun exposure and automotive paint protectors don't do much to help.  There have been occasional reports here of successful gel-coat treatments, but nothing that everyone can agree on (yet).

I know you don't want to hear this but when I hear "Gelcoat is cloudy" my first thought is the early stages of clear coat breaking down. Some people say you can just re-spray the clear coat but I have never experienced this to be very successful, more times than not it will require a repaint.

However, if it is just clear coat over laminate panels or gelcoat you can remove the clear coat, buff panels and reapply the clear coat. 

[quote author=Mr. D]...when I hear "Gelcoat is cloudy" my first thought is the early stages of clear coat breaking down.[/quote]

That's something of an oxymoron. Gelcoat and clear coat are two completely different things.

Gelcoat and clear coat are two completely different things.

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Ii think that may have been Mr D's point. People tend to say "gelcoat" when the problem really is a discolored clear coat.   There are a variety of finishes on modern RVs but few owners know one from the other, so misuse the terms they hear bandied about.

As you said earlier, clear coat is not used over a real gelcoat - the gelcoat itself is polished and needs no sealer or shine coating. Clear is used over some types of paints (called base coats) or on fiberglass laminate surfaces that by themselves are not hard and shiny. It's a relatively easy and inexpensive way to produce a high gloss finish.

[quote author=RV Roamer]Ii think that may have been Mr D's point. People tend to say "gelcoat" when the problem really is a discolored clear coat.[/quote]

Agreed Gary, and apologies to Mr D for misreading his message.

First of all, thanks everyone for your input...much appreciated.  The manual states that there is a GELCOAT on the roof and sidewals.  So, my question to mphy98 is how fast (or speed) should the buffer be rated.  I am using 3m Finisher/Restorer but using a low speed buffer, which could be moving the wax around rather than buffing to a shine. Thanks

OK, we will have to take them at their word, though RV manuals are notoriously inaccurate. Just be careful you don't burn right through it.

You might want to ask 3M what they recommend for your problem. They have a Tech Support group for the automotive aftermarket products area - call 877-MMM-CARS (877-666-2277) . Or theer might be a phone number on the product label that would be better.

[quote author=BigBlue]... using a low speed buffer, which could be moving the wax around rather than buffing to a shine.[/quote]

A slow speed buffer will do just fine. As Gary warns, be sure you don't go right through the gelcoat. Also be aware that, even if you don't go right through, you can burn gelcoat with too high a speed or too much pressure. Since 3M fiberglass restorer contains an abrasive, merely 'moving the wax around' may well be all that's needed.

BTW 3M makes that product with different grits. The heaviest (roughest) grit is labeled "for heavily oxidized surfaces". Just curious which one you're using.

I was going to post this as a reply earlier, but chose to hold off so as not to contribute to confusion.

We've owned gel coated fiberglass boats for 25 years (still own a couple). Oxidized gelcoat requires the use of abrasives, such as contained in many of the "fiberglass restorer" products. Keeping the shiny gel coat that way requires a good wax, such as carnuba. My preference is a heavy carnuba paste wax, but it's a lot of work. An alternative used by pros and owners is a liquid carnuba wax; Easier & faster to apply, but doesn't have the longevity of a heavy paste wax, and has to be redone more often, although the frequency depends on the amount of exposure to sun.

Fiberglass restorers (such as 3M) usually contain both abrasives and wax in the same product. If I allow gel coat to become visibly oxidized, I'll first use a liquid fiberglass restorer to remove the oxidation, then apply a carnuba paste wax.

Some calibration ...

It consistently takes me 21 days to apply carnuba paste wax to our large boat by hand (no buffer). A pro crew of 3 guys took 3 long days (dawn to dusk) by hand (no buffer). Observing how long and hard they worked, I approximated their 9 man days to 18 of my man days. The finish, either mine or pro, lasts a year in our California sun.

A different pro crew of 3 using liquid teflon and a buffer took 2 days, and the finish lasted a couple of months tops. The same pro crew using liquid carnuba and a buffer took 2 days, and the finish lasted 4-5 months.

3m As I said before is the way to go, I agree with tom that you use the finisher/restorer product first. then a good carnuba wax after that.  I did my 35' class a in a day. ( I was a little sore afterwards though)  I also bought a waxer from the auto parts store.  Lighter and smaller and no chance of high speed burn in.

Thanks guys!!  I picked up a 4500 rpm waxer and used it with the 3m restorer and it's working.  The dull, cloudy, chalky look is gone and I actually have a shine.
My next step is to pick up some Carnuba paste wax.  My garage floor was litered w/waxes and restorer products and I was as frustrated as the mess on my floor.
Thanks again to everyone for your input.  I'm feeling good about seeing the shine back in BigBlue.

[quote author=BigBlue]The dull, cloudy, chalky look is gone and I actually have a shine.[/quote]

Good news. That "chalky" appearance is  the normal oxidation of the gelcoat surface that happens when exposed to sun. Carnuba wax will really slow down the oxidation process. One caveat - don't inadvertently remove the wax by using an over-aggressive soap; I use ZipWax car wash on the coach and boat soap on the boat, but have been known to use them interchangeably when I ran out of one or the other.