Topic: CALAMITY STRIKES! (Read 3806 times)

Gary [RV Roamer] · « **on:** October 22, 2009, 07:38:26 PM »

Well, our freedom celebration trip got cut dramatically short today. We were cruising down I-95 in the right lane near Kenly, NC (Exit 106), headed towards Charleston and the Fall Rally next week, when we encountered a traffic slow down. Cars ahead appeared to be doing 40 and slowing, so I hit the brakes and...NOTHING! Thought I must have missed the pedal, so I hit it again and this time felt the pedal under my foot and on the floor. No braking effect at all and I don't even think the engine brake had kicked in - like it didn't know I was pushing on the brake pedal. It's already too late at 65 mph - we hit the car in front of us and booted it into the left lane and another car. Hardly felt it - 37,000 lbs vs about 4000 was no contest at all! No open lane to steer into and guard rails on my right, so I grabbed for the Emergency Brake and pulled the handle. No apparent effect and we rear ended a second car, kicking it out the way. Sailed into a F350 size truck with a cargo hauling body on the back and some industrial parts, but we are somewhat slower know. Pushed him for a way and we came to a stop. Amazingly, both Nancy & I are fine (and so was our cat Blacky once we found him cowering in the shambles of the wardrobe closet). I can't get our front door open, so climb out a window and am further amazed to find that no one was hurt in the other two cars or the truck either! The lady driver of one was shaken up and had some back pain, so she decided she would go to the hospital for a check-up but the on scene EMS said there appeared to be no serious injury. And wonder of wonders, our toad was fine too.

So tonight the coach is in a tow company yard in Selma, NC and we are in a Days Inn and thankful to be alive and uninjured. Our plans for the next two weeks are in shambles, but we are thankful regardless. Tomorrow I'll work on what to do about the coach, insurance, repairs, etc., but tonight is just for rekindling our rather battered spirits.

ruthandken CDN · « **Reply #1 on:** October 22, 2009, 07:44:36 PM »

Oh my goodness, what a mess!! But very glad to hear that no one was seriously hurt. Everyone is very lucky. Sounds very scary. Good luck on your repairs and such...

Ruth

Ray D · « **Reply #2 on:** October 22, 2009, 07:47:25 PM »

Gary, you got my sympathy! Really glad no one is seriously injured!

I hope getting back together is not to tough for you. $:-\$

Ray D

ArdraF · « **Reply #3 on:** October 22, 2009, 07:56:44 PM »

Wow! Thanks be that no one was seriously injured. This has been a bad enough year for you, so we're both very thankful all three of you are okay. It will certainly be interesting to find out why neither braking system worked! Hope all the insurance and repairs go as smoothly as can be hoped.

Take care,
Ardra and Jerry

Giles · « **Reply #4 on:** October 22, 2009, 08:08:06 PM »

Unbelievable.
You must still be shaking, and probably won't be able to sleep tonight.
But you are both alive, and nobody else hurt. Good luck.

1joester2 · « **Reply #5 on:** October 22, 2009, 08:21:04 PM »

I've traveled I-95 many times and seen accidents like yours...
but with worse endings.

Thank God nobody was hurt!

Joe

BernieD · « **Reply #6 on:** October 22, 2009, 08:23:36 PM »

Wow Gary, some story. It is really weird that so many functions failed at the same time, but thankfully no one was hurt. The coach can always be replaced, you and Nancy can't. Hope you never have to worry about it again, but that guard rail could have been a life saver in slowing/stopping the coach. Just remember to take a very shallow angle so you don't break thru.

Gary [RV Roamer] · « **Reply #7 on:** October 22, 2009, 08:44:18 PM »

I know about using the guard rail to slow down but am afraid I may have panicked at bit. Everything happened so fast and by the time I realized the service and emergency brakes weren't going to do anything at all, we had already hit two cars and were about to collide with the truck. I keep thinking about what I could have done differently and the guard rail is the obvious thing - should have kissed it HARD.

I can't believe the rear brakes did not lock up when I pulled the Emergency - everything I have been told says that is what happens. But there are no skid marks on the pavement at all.

Ned · « **Reply #8 on:** October 22, 2009, 08:49:18 PM »

Gary, I can't imagine how horrible that must have felt to have no brakes and be unable to avoid those collisions. We're thankful you and Nancy are OK and no one else was injured.

It will be interesting to find out why the parking brake didn't apply. Air brakes are supposed to be fail safe.

Tom · « **Reply #9 on:** October 22, 2009, 08:50:24 PM »

Oh my gosh! I'm so glad you're both OK (and Blacky too). It's just amazing that nobody was seriously hurt or injured. Hope you get a good night's sleep so you can deal with things calmly tomorrow.

Jeff · « **Reply #10 on:** October 22, 2009, 08:54:31 PM »

Gary:

Glad to hear no one was hurt, sorry it ruined your week. (month).

rsalhus · « **Reply #11 on:** October 22, 2009, 08:56:56 PM »

Gary,

Not much you can do if your brakes fail, sounds like you handled it as well as you could considering that no one was killed or badly injured. Hang in there buddy, we're all feeling your loss. You're started a blog here now so keep adding to it whenever you can. We want to follow this story with you and we want to help you in any way we can. We're just glad you're all right!

IslandGuy · « **Reply #12 on:** October 22, 2009, 09:01:46 PM »

Gary,
Thank goodness nobody was hurt in the accident...what a frightening experience...so sorry to hear about this unfortunate incident.

Best regards,

Jim

weewun · « **Reply #13 on:** October 22, 2009, 09:05:17 PM »

Gary, glad to hear you and wife are OK and that no one else was hurt,

If you need anything I am about 70 miles North of you and will assist in any way I can. If you find that you are going to have to stay in the area for awhile you are welcome to stay with Fran and I.

Hope everything goes well. By the way we met when I came to get the 'step' in West Palm Beach.

aka Porky · « **Reply #14 on:** October 22, 2009, 09:20:42 PM »

Gary, Very glad to hear that no one was hurt. Kenly is about 50 miles from me and, I too, offer any help I can provide. Please let us know what we can do.

Ken & Sheila · « **Reply #15 on:** October 22, 2009, 10:00:03 PM »

Gary,

Having been in a bad accident in 2000 I truly free the pain. BUT, like us you were not hurt. The guy who crossed the lane and hit us was slightly hurt, but lucky I saw him coming and steered off the road so it was a glancing blow rather than head on.

Sounds like you did all you could given the problem. Glad no else was hurt.

I know things are rough now, but they will get better.

I have never heard of air brakes failing without the emergency spring brakes activating. That is just scary.

Rest and relax,

ken

Mc2guy · « **Reply #16 on:** October 22, 2009, 10:03:08 PM »

Holy Cow, that must have been terrifying...so glad you guys (and other car passengers) are all okay. I can imagine what neurons must have been firing at that point when both brake systems failed. I had a brake failure in a car once and I remember my brain simply couldn't register what was happening for about 3 seconds.

Again, so glad you are okay. Please let us know if you can ever decipher the mystery.

Wendy · « **Reply #17 on:** October 22, 2009, 10:49:04 PM »

Holy Moly, what a mess ! Bad news is that the coach is hurt, good news is that you're not. And I see that you've found a Motel 6 which gladly take pets. Might not seem like it, but you guys sure are lucky - bad things happen that ultimately turn out good.

Relax and recover and give each other a big hug.

Wendy

rhmahoney · « **Reply #18 on:** October 22, 2009, 11:51:54 PM »

Thank goodness you are not hurt!

Betty Brewer · « **Reply #19 on:** October 23, 2009, 12:20:35 AM »

Gary and Nancy,

How vivid your recollection of the incident. I can't imagine the fear and the fast heart rate you must have experienced at those impacts. Sounds like you kept your head. I can only hope all the details of the repairs go smoothly and that you figure out the cause of those brake failures. Whew so glad it was not worse. Whew I just can't believe it. Whew
Thank goodness no serious injuries. Call out if any of us can do anything for you.

Betty

taoshum · « **Reply #20 on:** October 23, 2009, 12:59:13 AM »

We've never met but this is incredible, almost unbelievable... I've read your account 6 times and each time is even more amazing to me. It sounds so, (I'm at a loss for words), so horrible, yet miraculous that all of you are OK, in a motel and sending emails. At some level I know this can happen but when it does it it doesen't seem real but it is. I've been in several wrecks but this is something else, the helpless feeling of no brakes has to be eeeerie.

No matter what, take care of yourself and we wish you the best. Wow... I'm sure I could have written such a coherent report.... thanks, Gary and Coleen

Dick and Pat · « **Reply #21 on:** October 23, 2009, 08:20:48 AM »

Thank goodness all involved in the accident are OK, Gary & Nancy...never have had a brake failure & your account is bizarre in that back up brakes didn't kick in either. So glad you are both safe.

Dick & Pat

utahclaimjumper · « **Reply #22 on:** October 23, 2009, 08:54:42 AM »

Gary, this one has my attention!! I have the same chassis and systems and am a maintinence professional that typicaly performs his own work. I would be most interested in cause and effect, it appears to be a valveing problem given your discription of events, and of coarse things do happen faster that the mind can keep up sometimes.>>>D

Dan Walters · « **Reply #23 on:** October 23, 2009, 09:32:00 AM »

Gary,

Great Scott!! What a terrifying experience!! I've had to break quickly several times while driving my Coach and have often thought about what a helpless and horrifying experience it would be if the break pedal just went to the floor. I'm sorry you had to live that fear that I've had. Sounds like you handled the situation very well, given the circumstances. It is amazing that no one was seriously hurt. I'm glad you are all OK and able to start dealing with the minor issues now. Good luck with getting things back to normal.

Dan

geodrake · « **Reply #24 on:** October 23, 2009, 09:59:43 AM »

Lots of people had horeshoes in their pocket, and I can only guess what is in the seats. This just hasn't been a good year for you, but like your other problems, this too will resolve. Glad everyone came through it!

Tom and Margi · « **Reply #25 on:** October 23, 2009, 10:01:40 AM »

We're so very thankful you and the others were not seriously injured! What a year you two have had. Hugs to both of you.

Margi

Jeannine · « **Reply #26 on:** October 23, 2009, 10:44:36 AM »

What a frightening experience! We're also glad no one was injured. Keep us posted.

Jeannine & Dan

Ron from Big D · « **Reply #27 on:** October 23, 2009, 11:06:56 AM »

WOW! Gary, how fast things do happen. Needless to say, we are glad the two of you are O.K. and your plans are ruined. We are still planning to be at the campground for the rally and hope everyone else is still planning to attend. We are leaving Pigeon Forge on Monday and can go in another direction to assist you if need be. Let me know.

John From Detroit · « **Reply #28 on:** October 23, 2009, 11:44:43 AM »

Wow, when something close to that happened to me (Brakes worked but even at low speed the road was too slippery due to a light, just started rain) all I crunched was a class 3 hitch NO damage to the truck it was mounted on, $500 to the Damon. No injury both driven from scene (Michigan requires a report when there is a comma in the damage tag)

Glad to hear everyone, and I mean everyone, came out of it ok, and the only damage was vehicular

Just out of coursity..

1: What chassis (is your former I fear, home built upon) and
2: If you find out... What happened tn the brakes please.

Hfx_Cdn · « **Reply #29 on:** October 23, 2009, 12:56:00 PM »

Gary, it has been a tough year for you and Nancy, hope it only gets better from here. Donna and I send our thoughts and wishes. I'm sure it will work out but it is a real bummer.

KodiakRV · « **Reply #30 on:** October 23, 2009, 01:49:42 PM »

WOW! What a horrible, scary feeling that must have been. I wouldn't even begin to second-guess anything that you did.

Thank God that you were not injured.

ArdraF · « **Reply #31 on:** October 23, 2009, 02:51:34 PM »

When we were seriously looking to buy our Windsor we went on a test drive with the Monaco test driver. At one point he assured us there was no one else on the road, to make sure our seatbelts were fastened, and then hold on. As we were driving down the road at about 35 mph he pulled the emergency air brake and we were totally amazed at how fast the motorhome came to a complete stop. Those emergency air brakes work great - unless something has gone wrong. I should think if there was an air leak and no air pressure, some alarm would have sounded. I hope there is some kind of a "what went wrong" report because I'm sure it will help many of us.

ArdraF

Betty Brewer · « **Reply #32 on:** October 23, 2009, 03:34:01 PM »

Quote from: ArdraF on October 23, 2009, 02:51:34 PM

When we were seriously looking to buy our Windsor we went on a test drive with the Monaco test driver. At one point he assured us there was no one else on the road, to make sure our seatbelts were fastened, and then hold on. As we were driving down the road at about 35 mph he pulled the emergency air brake and we were totally amazed at how fast the motorhome came to a complete stop. Those emergency air brakes work great - unless something has gone wrong.

Ardra,

I had a similar experience in RV driving school. Jerry Ray decided I should pull emergency brake to see how it worked. I was afraid of a 'wheels locking up and skidding scene' , but like you said the rig efficiently and quickly slowed with some force, however it was still quite a few yards before a complete stop and that was at 35-40 mph.
If Gary was traveling in the speed of low 60 mph range I fear even an effective emergency brake stop my not have been enough to slow his destination into the back of an auto in front. In those few nano seconds our mind races as to how to handle impending dangers. I think Gary did well and trust that he will give us a full report on the findings. I remain happy that there were no serious injuries. Makes me want to check my brakes.

Betty

Ned · « **Reply #33 on:** October 23, 2009, 04:18:59 PM »

The emergency (or parking) brake is a failsafe mechanism. It uses air pressure to keep the brake off, and in the event of a total loss of air pressure, the brakes are applied to the rear wheels by powerful springs. It's quite possible that the emergency brakes did apply in Gary's case, but it just took that long to effect a stop. It's certainly not as effective as applying all 4 wheel brakes, which obviously he couldn't do.

Jack Nichols · « **Reply #34 on:** October 23, 2009, 04:51:46 PM »

We are thankful for your outcome and sorry it happened.

I am sure many more people got up from the easy chair, walked over to the driving station, and throught through what we would do in your situation. I now have a MUCH better grasp of where that big yellow emergency brake knob is. Your experience may save some of us from the same fate some day.

Prayers your way, and if you ask for help, you will need a traffic director.

Gypsy Rovers · « **Reply #35 on:** October 23, 2009, 05:46:43 PM »

Gary & Nancy, so glad that you folks came out OK and with minor injuries to the others, that's a blessing. I cant imagine a more helpless feeling than "no brakes" and as others have indicated I would like to know the root cause.

I know things are very much up in the air at this point and difficult to plan properly, however, we will be in Lake Aire on Weds, both of us willing to do whatever it takes to help make the rally a success. If, you folks are able to make it there with your toad we have plenty of room in the coach and would love to be able to offer you a base while you're there.

Let us know if there's anything we can do to help and hopefully there'll be sunny days ahead.

Dale & Karen.

seilerbird · « **Reply #36 on:** October 23, 2009, 06:11:47 PM »

Gary - I am glad you and the misses and the cat are all ok. I wonder if the insurance company is going to patch up the windshield or replace it?

DonTom · « **Reply #37 on:** October 23, 2009, 06:18:00 PM »

Quote from: Ned on October 23, 2009, 04:18:59 PM

The emergency (or parking) brake is a failsafe mechanism. It uses air pressure to keep the brake off, and in the event of a total loss of air pressure, the brakes are applied to the rear wheels by powerful springs. It's quite possible that the emergency brakes did apply in Gary's case, but it just took that long to effect a stop. It's certainly not as effective as applying all 4 wheel brakes, which obviously he couldn't do.

I am also very glad to hear it wasn't more serious and that everybody came out okay!

All this makes me wonder about braking in diesels and so I wanna ask a bunch of dumb questions. I know nothing about diesels, as I never owned one. I never even took a good look at a diesel engine.

What happens when you shift to the lowest gear? Would it help much to slow down a diesel?

Also, what happens when the engine is shut down (like when the ignition is turned off in a gasoline engine). Does it just turn off the fuel pump or what does it do? There's no ignition to turn off, right? It seems there should be a way to use all that compression to help slow things down.

I have thought about what I would do (but with gasoline engine rigs), in the case of lost brakes. And I have had to use it once, but only to help, by shifting into the lowest gear. But I didn't totally lose all the brakes, I had a brake line burst open for the rear brakes as I was braking down a deep hill. It was scary, pedal goes down to near the floor, but I was able to slow enough to stop and avoid any damage. Fortunately, most of the braking power is in the front and with the help of the tranny in low, as well as using the parking brake, I was able to come to an almost normal stop in an almost normal stopping distance.

I have heard of one other person who totally lost brakes but was able to stop by shifting his automatic tranny into REVERSE. It damaged the tranny, but it did stop. What would happen in a diesel if it were forced into reverse?

-Don- SSF, CA

Jim Godward · « **Reply #38 on:** October 23, 2009, 06:52:34 PM »

Quote from: DonTom on October 23, 2009, 06:18:00 PM

I am also very glad to hear it wasn't more serious and that everybody came out okay!

All this makes me wonder about braking in diesels and so I wanna ask a bunch of dumb questions. I know nothing about diesels, as I never owned one. I never even took a good look at a diesel engine.

What happens when you shift to the lowest gear? Would it help much to slow down a diesel?

Comment:
In todays diesels shifting down will slow you BUT it will only shift down to the lowest gear that will not damage things. If you touch the brake and shift down it should engage the exhaust brake, either the classic Jacobs or the newer butterfly in the exhaust path and shift down as the engine speed reduces below the next shift point.

Also, what happens when the engine is shut down (like when the ignition is turned off in a gasoline engine). Does it just turn off the fuel pump or what does it do? There's no ignition to turn off, right? It seems there should be a way to use all that compression to help slow things down.

Comment:
I have thought about what I would do (but with gasoline engine rigs), in the case of lost brakes. And I have had to use it once, but only to help, by shifting into the lowest gear. But I didn't totally lose all the brakes, I had a brake line burst open for the rear brakes as I was braking down a deep hill. It was scary, pedal goes down to near the floor, but I was able to slow enough to stop and avoid any damage. Fortunately, most of the braking power is in the front and with the help of the tranny in low, as well as using the parking brake, I was able to come to an almost normal stop in an almost normal stopping distance.

I have heard of one other person who totally lost brakes but was able to stop by shifting his automatic tranny into REVERSE. It damaged the tranny, but it did stop. What would happen in a diesel if it were forced into reverse?

Comment:
In the newer diesels the transmission will not shift into an unsafe gear so you would have to be either stopped or nearly so to have the transmission shift into reverse.

Computers are smarter than people.

-Don- SSF, CA

Gypsy Rovers · « **Reply #39 on:** October 23, 2009, 07:02:34 PM »

Don, I'll try to answer the questions without getting into the technicalities too deep.

Yes you can shift transmission down but, on most large class A diesels the shift pad is on a side panel not easily reached in high stress situations. Shifting down, even to 1st gear will not have the same effect as a normal manual transmission, the speed sensor/computer will not allow the transmission to over speed the engine so will only shift down when it's in a safe range.

Yes you could shut the ignition off to stop the injectors and would gain some braking effect from compression BUT, we're back to the transmission/computer not allowing it to downshift. In this case you would also lose your power steering just adding to the challenge.

Gary's problem is a worse case situation, no warning that he was losing air pressure, which he probably wasn't, just no pressure or effect from the pedal. You'll recognize that he had seconds (a few at that!) to react to a situation rapidly going from bad to worse, pulling the emergency brake should have dumped all the air from the rear brakes and allowed the springs to apply full brakes but on the rear axle only.

As mentioned previously the rear brakes may have applied but not sufficiently to lock up the wheels (no skid marks) and he was working without the front brakes of the coach and depending on his supplementary braking system perhaps without the toad brakes as well

I'm so glad that the situation worked out with out any serious injuries, it seems Gary's reactions to crises is as level headed as his contributions to the forum.

Dale

ArdraF · « **Reply #40 on:** October 23, 2009, 07:05:11 PM »

Don, one of the gals who used to work for me lived on a hill and lost her brakes coming down to work one day. She did exactly the same thing - put it in reverse. I'm not sure I ever would have thought of that but she did and it worked, although it messed up the car. But she stopped safely and that was the important thing.

ArdraF

DonTom · « **Reply #41 on:** October 23, 2009, 07:18:15 PM »

Quote from: Gypsy Rovers on October 23, 2009, 07:02:34 PM

Gary's problem is a worse case situation, no warning that he was losing air pressure, which he probably wasn't, just no pressure or effect from the pedal.

I just hope it gets figured out. IMO, the worse thing that can happen now is that there is nothing found to be wrong. IOW, a one time intermittent failure.

A long time ago, I had a car that would not brake one time and one time only. The pedal went all the way to the floor once (okay after second try). Not just half way as if only one section of the system had air. It was as if there was a lot of air in both lines. Never gave a problem after that one single time, but I changed the master cylinder the next day, as a guess of what caused it.

-Don- SSF, CA

Mark R. · « **Reply #42 on:** October 23, 2009, 07:23:51 PM »

Good to hear all are well, do you have a gut feel as to weather your rig is totaled or repairable?

Bob Maxwell · « **Reply #43 on:** October 23, 2009, 07:53:30 PM »

Hug her close, pet the cat and thank God. I am!

Jim Godward · « **Reply #44 on:** October 23, 2009, 09:10:23 PM »

Glad all are OK. Best wishes to you all as you work your way through this.

Jim Dick · « **Reply #45 on:** October 23, 2009, 09:51:43 PM »

To all our Framily,

We happened to be traveling in the opposing direction from Gary & Nancy. Pat had called them to inquire where they might be located only to hear the accident had just occurred. . We were shocked to say the least. Today we were able to spend a little time with them. They are doing well but I know the shock of it all is still present. I doubt any of us would be able to do more than Gary did to lessen the results given the circumstances. We are thankful they were not injured!

Tom · « **Reply #46 on:** October 23, 2009, 10:22:55 PM »

Thanks for the update Jim. From personal experience, shock is often delayed and can be long lasting. We're sure wishing the very best for Gary and Nancy as they put the pieces back together.

joelmyer · « **Reply #47 on:** October 24, 2009, 04:46:13 AM »

WOW! Glad you're all OK.

hpykmpr · « **Reply #48 on:** October 24, 2009, 06:25:46 AM »

Quote from: RV Roamer on October 22, 2009, 07:38:26 PM

Well, our freedom celebration trip got cut dramatically short today.

Wow ,sorry to hear about this ,it must have been a frightening experience and I sure am glad that no one was hurt .I expect that your coach had air brakes as I think it is a diesel and having driven a diesel truck a lot of years ago i cannot get a handle on what would have happened to your brakes without any warning. Once again glad to hear you are all okay.

Dave R · « **Reply #49 on:** October 24, 2009, 07:37:50 AM »

Thank God you both are okay.

Dave & Jeanette

Chet18013 · « **Reply #50 on:** October 24, 2009, 07:59:11 AM »

Hi Gary & Nancy,

What a fright you two must have had. The most important thing is that is that both of you had no physical injuries.

I hope you get the Spartan folks involved in checking out the cause of your brake failure. I'm sure they might be able to shed some light on the probable cause. The failure of the emergency brake is baffling. Did it finally lock the rear wheels and have to be manually released before the vehicle could be towed? All I can think of is that the air supply line to the brake peddle and the supply line to pressurize the rear brake spring actuators must be run in parallel and
chose that moment to become kinked, pinching off both of the plastic air lines at the same time. This of course could be an assembly problem from the time of manufacture.

Chet

FrontrangeRVer · « **Reply #51 on:** October 24, 2009, 08:06:38 AM »

Wow Gary! Im late to the party also! That is quite an amazing ordeal! Im sure you were yelling out to "BRACE YOURSELF" alot, and Im glad you guys came out with YOUR HEALTH!

Gary, please let us all know WHY this happened, as the final brake issue is going to be very important to us all.

GKman · « **Reply #52 on:** October 24, 2009, 09:24:46 AM »

Quote from: RV Roamer on October 22, 2009, 08:44:18 PM

k. I keep thinking about what I could have done differently

I've been in several accidents, including one with a young woman killed. Accidents happen so quickly there is no time to think. The only thing you could do was what you did do. The fatal accident involved the other driver sliding off the opposite side of the road, catching traction on the shoulder in a skid and rebounding into my lane. A guardrail could do the same.

Feelings tell us we're responsible, there is something we could have done differently (if we were superman and had it to do over). Intellect tells us a different story. You did a million things right, it happened anyway. ER's, junkyards and body shops do a booming business, sometimes fate just chooses us instead of the next guy. Move on.

Jackliz · « **Reply #53 on:** October 24, 2009, 12:07:50 PM »

Gary and Nancy,
We are so glad that you and Blackie did not get hurt, and that no one else got hurt, either. WOW. Y'all have been through so much lately, too. Hug each other a lot.

Best regards,
Jack and Liz

Gary [RV Roamer] · « **Reply #54 on:** October 24, 2009, 04:16:28 PM »

Quote

It will be interesting to find out why the parking brake didn't apply. Air brakes are supposed to be fail safe.

I've been talking with another American Coach owner who has a truck fleet and is thoroughly knowledgeable about air brake systems. He says the only way to get my symptoms is for the brake pedal assembly to come loose from its mount on the firewall or the pivot pin on the pedal to fail. In either case, the pedal no longer acts as a lever and does not open the Treadle (air) valve or activate the switch that shuts off the cruise control and activates the engine brake. My brake pedal is down flat on the floor and seems loose from its mount, but that area was pushed in during the accident and I have no way to tell if that is accident damage or the cause of the problem in the first place. My gut says that was the problem, though, cause everything else fits.

I also have the Freightliner adjustable pedal system, which makes the pedal mechanism more complex and probably adds another possible point of failure. Something could have broken there as well. I may never know just what it was unless a clever mechanic can distinguish pre vs post accident condition.

I never lost brake air or got an alarm, at least not until I pulled the Emergency/Park handle. My recollection is that there was no pedal in the anticipated place when I pushed my foot down. My foot went to the floor before it hit the pedal. It is my belief the pedal had come loose somehow and there simply was no brake pedal function there for me the use.

It also appears the spring driven emergency brake probably worked. I'm told it just doesn't have enough force to lock the brakes at that speed, especially if the brake slack adjusters have not been regularly adjusted. The truck brake guy I mentioned above says the auto adjusters just don't do much on motorhomes because they do not get backed up very often or very fast and simply don't get a chance to do much auto-adjusting. He recommends a manual slack adjustment annually, e.g. at each oil change. He says that the brakes can easily get so slack that the park/emergency brake is only 60% effective. And remember, the park/emergency brake is rear wheel only, so you only have 50% brakes to start with. So get those rear drum brakes adjusted at your next chassis service.

Gary [RV Roamer] · « **Reply #55 on:** October 24, 2009, 04:26:53 PM »

Pat & Jim Dick came by on Friday and loaded our freezer full of meat into their fridge, saving us one big headache. We had a ton of ribs for the rally plus a couple pot roasts and a London Broil we planned to use at another affair after we left the Fall Rally. The physical hugs helped even more - we needed them badly!

We've been packing our personal gear in boxes and loading into the back of the Acadia. We decided we had enough room without getting a U-Haul, but it was tight! Gave away a bunch of other frozen food to the guy who towed us in and also donated Nancy's potted plants to his wife.

I've been trying to reach a motorhome collision repair shop called Mike's Collision Center in Wilmington, NC, to arrange to have the coach towed there and repaired. They had already closed when i called at 3 pm on Friday and nobody on Saturday either. I left voicemail and sent an email, so hope to hear something soon. Looks like a good place, though, with their own frame shop and 45 foot long spray booth for painting big rigs.

Nancy and I expect to leave Selma on Sunday morning and stop to visit a friend in southern South Carolina Sunday night. They will give us a room, a stiff drink, a good meal and a lot of sympathy and we need all of that!

Tom · « **Reply #56 on:** October 24, 2009, 04:33:43 PM »

Sounds like you're starting to get organized Gary. I can't imagine having to deal with all that stuff and the coach repair soon after the accident and far from home. Glad to hear that Jim and Pat were able to help.

A loose or detached brake pedal was the only thing that seemed to make sense to me but, without seeing the coach, I didn't want to offer the guess. Interesting input re the slack adjusters.

I took a peek at Mike's Collision Center web site; Looks like a very capable shop.

Mark R. · « **Reply #57 on:** October 24, 2009, 05:12:38 PM »

There is another scenario that will cause the emergency brake not to work properly, (not to say this had anything to do with Gary's stop), the exhaust vents for the emergency brake cylinder can become blocked. If the vents get blocked or partially blocked it will cause the emergency brake to not work or to actuate slowly. In my case I would release the parking/ emergency brake but the rig would not move, after several minutes the rig would go, turned out that a mud wasp decided to pack the perfect sized vent hole with mud and eggs Funny how a single bug can turn a safety device called fail safe by the experts on a million dollar rig into a useless red knob on the dash board!

Pierat · « **Reply #58 on:** October 24, 2009, 05:19:49 PM »

Man, that's truly scary. We are so glad you two are okay. Best wishes to you, and here's hoping you've gotten all the bad stuff out of the way from now on. (BTW, I know the tow's brakes wouldn't come close to stopping the coach, but wonder if they would have left tracks?)

Gary [RV Roamer] · « **Reply #59 on:** October 24, 2009, 05:25:52 PM »

Nancy & I want to take this opportunity to thank the many forum members who called, emailed , PM'ed, etc. to lend their moral support and offer physical help of all kinds. This is truly a wonderful community of "Framily" and we are blessed to have so many fine friends.

BigLarry · « **Reply #60 on:** October 24, 2009, 08:29:38 PM »

Gary and Nancy,

You're very fortunate. You have dodged two big time bullets this year. It sounds like the Framily is providing you the support you need. We'll be thinking of you two while you're getting your coach repaired and getting back to normal.

Good luck and feel blessed.

Jim Dick · « **Reply #61 on:** October 24, 2009, 10:06:31 PM »

Gary,

Once we return to Florida we'll deliver your meat. I will be sure to bring the truck so we can have a couple of cold ones before Pat drives back.

We sure were glad we could see you on our way north. You and Nancy mean a lot to us as you do to the rest of our Framily. All the way to VA I kept thinking about what I would have done in your situation. I know there's nothing I could do that you didn't.

Thanks for the info on the slack adjusters. I know they need lubrication but not too much. I'll be sure to have mine checked at the next service interval.

Howard Rawley · « **Reply #62 on:** October 25, 2009, 02:07:34 AM »

Wow!

It's been a tuff year for you guys ... very glad to hear there were no serious injuries ... the sheet metal can always be repaired/replaced.

Sure can happen quick! Sounds like you did well under the circumstances Gary.

Again glad to hear you guys (and the cat) are ok.

Howard & Kelly

ZuniJayne · « **Reply #63 on:** October 25, 2009, 10:25:51 AM »

Gary and Nancy (and Blackie).....

BIG HUGS AND LOVE!!!!!!!!

Marsha/CA · « **Reply #64 on:** October 25, 2009, 10:58:55 AM »

Gary,

We are so grateful you, Nancy and Blackie are fine. What an ordeal. Thank goodness for guardian angels.

Marsha and Tim

Daisy · « **Reply #65 on:** October 25, 2009, 03:24:24 PM »

Gary and Nancy:

Haven't read the forum for a while as we've had family visiting and were busy. So sorry to hear about your accident, but we are so very grateful you are both uninjured, just shaken up a bit. We sure hope this will all be resolved quickly for you and that you can get on with the rest of your lives. This has just about made you hit bottom for this year, so there's no place else to go but up. May future days be much, much brighter. We both wish you the best.

Daisy and Fred.

bigskymt · « **Reply #66 on:** October 25, 2009, 06:30:20 PM »

Gary: Glad you are both OK. My wife and I offer our prayers and best wishes that you recover quickly and as painless as possible from your latest misfortune.
Warmest regards, Terry and Maricar, Whitehall, MT.
On a brighter note I guess the "tiny bubbles" caused by the bra are less noticeable.

gmsboss1 · « **Reply #67 on:** October 25, 2009, 07:21:18 PM »

WoW! Mary Ann and I have been at a lake house with our son and his family since Thursday and had no internet access and no cell phone service so this was a complete surprise.

We are so glad to hear that you escaped unharmed. So sorry that we were not home as we live about 45 minutes from Kenley and would loved to be able to help you both out.

You'll both be in our prayers (again!) for a quick recovery!

Maybe we'll see you at the Spring SE Rally!

Be well. Stay safe.

Don and Mary Ann

jerryarlyne · « **Reply #68 on:** October 25, 2009, 10:13:52 PM »

Gary, Nancy & Blackie,

So glad you and all the rest were unhurt. I don't know of anything you could have done that would have made a difference in the split seconds you had. As for the cause, I agree the treadle pedel coming loose makes the most sense and would account for the brakes not working. Also the other post from your brake mechanic is right, most brake systems don't get the slack adjusters tightnd up and after a while they just don't do the job. Doing a good brake check will find that problem but don't think anything you would normally do would have stopped the pedel problem. In over 25 years of driving busses I have never had a total failure like you had. Not sure if that makes you lucky or me (or both of us)

We will keep you all in our thoughts and pray you get over the shock and trauma in a short time. Hope also all goes well & smooth with the coach repair

Jerry & Arlyne Ray

PancakeBill · « **Reply #69 on:** October 26, 2009, 07:36:08 AM »

Just caught this. Been home but busy. Sorry to hear what happened of course, but very glad you guys are OK.

I'll keep an eye on this.

Gary [RV Roamer] · « **Reply #70 on:** October 26, 2009, 06:05:03 PM »

The coach was towed to Mike's Collision Center in Wilmington, NC today. The first tiny step on the road to recovery.

Nancy & I are at friends Dale & Pat Baker's vacation home near Walterboro, NC, getting some badly needed decompression time. Will head home in another day or so.

Wendy · « **Reply #71 on:** October 26, 2009, 07:29:50 PM »

You saying "Will head home..." makes me happier with our decision to keep the stick house. It's always nice to have someplace to "head home" to.

Any idea from "Mike's" on repairability?

Snow headed our way......see, it could be worse !!

Wendy

KodiakRV · « **Reply #72 on:** October 26, 2009, 09:03:55 PM »

Quote from: RV Roamer on October 24, 2009, 04:16:28 PM

I've been talking with another American Coach owner who has a truck fleet and is thoroughly knowledgeable about air brake systems. He says the only way to get my symptoms is for the brake pedal assembly to come loose from its mount on the firewall or the pivot pin on the pedal to fail. In either case, the pedal no longer acts as a lever and does not open the Treadle (air) valve or activate the switch that shuts off the cruise control and activates the engine brake. My brake pedal is down flat on the floor and seems loose from its mount, but that area was pushed in during the accident and I have no way to tell if that is accident damage or the cause of the problem in the first place. My gut says that was the problem, though, cause everything else fits.

I also have the Freightliner adjustable pedal system, which makes the pedal mechanism more complex and probably adds another possible point of failure. Something could have broken there as well. I may never know just what it was unless a clever mechanic can distinguish pre vs post accident condition...

If you have broken pins, a metallurgist can tell you whether they failed suddenly during the crash or if they failed over time due to fatigue. I'd be glad to do it, but, due to the litiguous society we live in, it would be best if your insurance company handled it...

Jim Godward · « **Reply #73 on:** October 26, 2009, 10:00:36 PM »

Now you know why I no longer consult and turned in my PE!!

taoshum · « **Reply #74 on:** October 26, 2009, 10:46:37 PM »

me too... PE, retired.

Gary [RV Roamer] · « **Reply #75 on:** October 27, 2009, 10:45:26 AM »

Mike's says it will take about a week to get a preliminary estimate to show the adjuster. I should have some idea then.

Marsha/CA · « **Reply #76 on:** October 27, 2009, 10:52:53 AM »

My husband, Tim, still has his (PE); not ready to let go of it yet!

Marsha~

mayfair · « **Reply #77 on:** October 27, 2009, 10:56:55 AM »

WOW Gary I don't know how I missed this earlier, but I'm sorry to hear about your accident. I'm happy to hear that not only you and your wife, but also the people driving the other cars were also un-injured. That's AWESOME !!

I hope everything goes well with the repair and that you can get back on the road soon.

Wendy · « **Reply #78 on:** October 27, 2009, 11:37:15 AM »

PE stands for?

Jim Godward · « **Reply #79 on:** October 27, 2009, 11:47:52 AM »

Wendy,

PE = Licensed Professional Engineer

scottydl · « **Reply #80 on:** October 27, 2009, 11:50:34 AM »

Quote from: Jim Godward on October 27, 2009, 11:47:52 AM

Wendy,

PE = Licensed Professional Engineer

Okay then, I was wondering how it so happened that all the guys on this forum were so into Physical Education. Never knew so many gym teachers drove RV's!

Gary - here's wishing you all the best in getting this handled as painlessly as possible. With a vehicle that size sailing down the road with no brakes... wow, it is only by the grace of God that someone was not seriously injured or killed. A good outcome, all things considered. Hang in there, and boy will you have a campfire story to tell when all of this is over!

workingtorv · « **Reply #81 on:** October 27, 2009, 06:44:34 PM »

I'm just reading this myself and I to am very sorry that you had to go through that terror but am so glad that you are all okay and safe and sound.

Gary [RV Roamer] · « **Reply #82 on:** October 28, 2009, 09:57:33 PM »

Thanks, everybody. We had a couple days to decompress at a good friends place in southern SC and the shakes have largely passed. Can't say the worries are over, though.

Jeff · « **Reply #83 on:** October 28, 2009, 10:26:29 PM »

Gary:

Everyone at the Rally tonight sends their best wishes to you both and sure do miss you both.

Hope the sun is back out soon.

pedataa136 · « **Reply #84 on:** October 31, 2009, 10:06:07 AM »

WOW! :oGlad you're okay.Don't think this forum would be the same without you

.

utahclaimjumper · « **Reply #85 on:** November 05, 2009, 08:34:49 PM »

Any new news on the repair?? I'm wondering if a front "clip" is available (after pulling the frame pieces and straightening) or will the remnents have to be used and repaired.??>>>Dan

clarkgriswold · « **Reply #86 on:** November 05, 2009, 09:37:38 PM »

So sorry to hear about the accident but we're glad to hear that all are okay. Although we're in Chattanooga, please feel free to let us know if there's anything we can do to help. Hope you're back on the road again and all goes smoothly in getting things in order. Mike & Cindy

Jim Dick · « **Reply #87 on:** November 06, 2009, 12:34:21 AM »

Quote from: RV Roamer on October 28, 2009, 09:57:33 PM

Thanks, everybody. We had a couple days to decompress at a good friends place in southern SC and the shakes have largely passed. Can't say the worries are over, though.

Gary,

There's nothing like forum Framily to help in these kinds of situations. Glad you are home and able to decompress a little. Looking forward to seeing you soon. We should be back by 10 November and will give you a call.

Gary [RV Roamer] · « **Reply #88 on:** November 06, 2009, 08:30:47 AM »

The front end fiberglass panels are destroyed. New ones will have to be made to order from the original molds. Fortunately when AMG bought Fleetwood out of bankruptcy, they also bought Gold Bond, the Fleetwood subsidiary that has the molds and does the fabrication of the molded fiberglass panels. The price for it will likely be staggering, though. Also have to get all new light assemblies, both headlight and fog/parking lamps. I've heard they are from some model of Cadillac, so hopefully will be available from GM.

I talked with the insurance claims people yesterday and the preliminary report is that damages will "easily exceed $50,000". Will be awhile before I get a final figure, though.

Tom · « **Reply #89 on:** November 06, 2009, 09:45:56 AM »

That does seem "staggering" Gary. Hopefully, the insurance company will pick up most of that huge repair cost.

Jim Dick · « **Reply #90 on:** November 06, 2009, 11:10:34 AM »

Gary,

Not sure about your coach but my headlights are definitely from Cadillac. I was surprised when I saw the emblem on the assembly. Also found out recently that the unit includes the turning lights to illuminate the side!

clarkgriswold · « **Reply #91 on:** November 06, 2009, 12:12:31 PM »

Hey Gary - do you know yet exactly what failed in the brakes? Just curious.

DonTom · « **Reply #92 on:** November 06, 2009, 04:35:49 PM »

Quote from: RV Roamer on November 06, 2009, 08:30:47 AM

The front end fiberglass panels are destroyed. New ones will have to be made to order from the original molds. Fortunately when AMG bought Fleetwood out of bankruptcy, they also bought Gold Bond, the Fleetwood subsidiary that has the molds and does the fabrication of the molded fiberglass panels. The price for it will likely be staggering, though. Also have to get all new light assemblies, both headlight and fog/parking lamps. I've heard they are from some model of Cadillac, so hopefully will be available from GM.

I talked with the insurance claims people yesterday and the preliminary report is that damages will "easily exceed $50,000". Will be awhile before I get a final figure, though.

Unless it can be determined exactly what happened, and fixed so it can never happen again, I would be afraid to drive the thing ever again!

-Don-

Gary [RV Roamer] · « **Reply #93 on:** November 06, 2009, 09:40:13 PM »

The problem was with the brake pedal, not the brakes themselves. I feel the brakes would have worked if I could have applied them. Since the brake pedal assembly was damaged in the accident, I'll probably never know what actually went wrong.

DonTom · « **Reply #94 on:** November 06, 2009, 10:43:41 PM »

Quote from: RV Roamer on November 06, 2009, 09:40:13 PM

The problem was with the brake pedal, not the brakes themselves. I feel the brakes would have worked if I could have applied them. Since the brake pedal assembly was damaged in the accident, I'll probably never know what actually went wrong.

Yeah, I saw the message where it seemed that was the only thing it could be. But doesn't that leave some doubt? And was it redesigned in such a way so that can never happen again?

It really makes no difference if it is the "brakes themselves" or the "brake pedal" when it cannot be stopped!

Your experience makes me feel better about buying a cheap "entry level" older used gas powered RV!

Also, the fact that you had no other method to slow down . . . Seems dangerous. I once lost my rear brakes going down a steep hill (small tear in the rear brake line) in my old 1978 RV. I was able to slow down and stop (with the help of "low" of tranny and parking brake) , but that was scary enough for me. And still a good thing nobody was right in front of me going slow!

Anyway, good luck!

-Don- SSF, CA

Gary [RV Roamer] · « **Reply #95 on:** November 07, 2009, 09:39:59 AM »

I still had the emergency brake (which I used) and the transmission gearing, but things were happening too fast to do much.

John From Detroit · « **Reply #96 on:** November 07, 2009, 11:57:45 AM »

Quote from: DonTom on November 06, 2009, 04:35:49 PM

Unless it can be determined exactly what happened, and fixed so it can never happen again, I would be afraid to drive the thing ever again!

-Don-

Gary told us what happened.. bolts came loose and dumped the brake pedal to the floor.

What can I say.. Now I read all the time about the issues with Workhorse Brakes locking up and not releasing properly

Frankly..... I think I'd rather drive a workhorse

(But then I do)

That has got to be a "Time for clean underware" class incident.. Just glad that the the casualties were made of metal and plastic, Not flesh.

DonTom · « **Reply #97 on:** November 07, 2009, 04:09:49 PM »

Quote from: John From Detroit on November 07, 2009, 11:57:45 AM

Gary told us what happened.. bolts came loose and dumped the brake pedal to the floor.

Yeah, I think "most likely" were the words used, which means some doubt.

But let's hope that's all it was. Something that's easy to check and fix with lock-tite.

Perhaps we all should check our brake pedal bolts now while we are thinking about it!

Especially anybody who has a rig similar to Gary's.

-Don- SSF, CA

utahclaimjumper · « **Reply #98 on:** November 07, 2009, 11:33:07 PM »

I've allready done it, but mine bolts to the floor.>>>D

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