Towing on snow and ice?

[Phermenter]

Hi. While we're not new to RV'ing, I am new to pulling a 5th wheel. We do a lot of winter camping at ski areas, so our ole 5th wheel won't be 'winterized' very often in the traditional sense of the word. Winterizing for us is preparing to camp under as much as 2 feet of freshly fallen snow, and hoping to be snowed in so we can miss work Monday morning!

Which brings me to the issue of getting there. I am fully aware of the basics of winter driving: slow way down, leave even more room, break easily, etc. I have been driving a PU truck camper to the mountain for many years, it's towing this new 5th wheel I have questions about. I have a 4WD drive truck, so it's not an issue getting going, it's keeping the trailer behind the truck when stopping or slowing.

I'm looking for advice. I know, or believe, using chains on the trailer is not the correct thing to do, but what about studded tires? Would they help? Are there any specific tires any of you have used that would be appropriate? What about siping M&S tires?

Thanks,
Phermenter

[crosscountry]

Sorry I never pulled a 5th wheel.  However, years ago when we used to change to snow tires and some with studs I felt the studs caused me to slide more.  I understand the studs are suppose to grip the surface.  It seemed to me the studs were more of a problem than a safety measure.

Enjoy your winter.

Russ

[DAN L]

most states require chains on trailer wheels if brakes are required on the trailer. you don't say where you are located.
www.dot.ca.gov/dist3/departments/mtce/graphics/ChainChart.pdf
www.nevadadot.com/traveler/pdfs/tractionControl.pdf
 

[RV Roamer]

most states require chains on trailer wheels if brakes are required on the trailer.

I think you may have inadvertently overstated that. It appears to say that chains are required all the time, but chains would be required on the trailer braking wheels only when on a highway that is restricted to to chains only.  Many states do not have any chain restrictions at all.

[RV Roamer]

I think the main concerns to make sure the trailer does not end up pushing the tow vehicle (brakes too late) or skids (brakes too much). If the tow vehicle brakes too much before the trailer brakes apply, the trailer can either jackknife or simply push the tow vehicle along. But if the trailer brakes early but lightly, the only problem is that it holds the tow vehicle back a bit, which tends to keep everything in a straight line (desirable). I think I'd adjust my trailer brakes so they came on quickly but not real aggressively. And if you do not have a top quality proportional brake controller like the Tekonsha Prodigy, get one.

If siping works on the tow vehicle tires, it might help the trailer tires too.

[RoyM]

If the trailer gets out of shape and tries to pass the tv, a light hand application of the trailer brakes can bring things back under control. Best to slow down before starting a steep descent and gearing down to keep things in perspective.

[taoshum]

I don't know if they make "ABS" brakes for trailers but if they do... in my experience with cars/trucks/etc, ABS is a vast improvement and will usually eliminate a skid on really slick roads.  My favorite technique however is to wait until the road is plowed and sanded, even if it takes a few days, then go.

related question... do modern class A MHs have ABS?  With air brakes, is there such a feature?

[Phermenter]

Hey, thanks everyone... I'll try and remember the use of hand breaking the trailer. If I every really need to. And, yes, my break controller is a Prodigy. I can't say it's the best, but it's been good to me so far! I'll also check the rules here in Washington, see what they say about traction control on trailers.

Phermenter

[Jim Godward]

I don't know if they make "ABS" brakes for trailers but if they do... in my experience with cars/trucks/etc, ABS is a vast improvement and will usually eliminate a skid on really slick roads.  My favorite technique however is to wait until the road is plowed and sanded, even if it takes a few days, then go.

related question... do modern class A MHs have ABS?  With air brakes, is there such a feature?

The answer to both questions is YES!!  I'm not familiar with the current technology but worked on the electronics for the first ones Rockwell had in the late 60 or early 70s.  I got transferred off the program to one with a higher company priority.

[DAN L]

Hey, thanks everyone... I'll try and remember the use of hand breaking the trailer. If I every really need to. And, yes, my break controller is a Prodigy. I can't say it's the best, but it's been good to me so far! I'll also check the rules here in Washington, see what they say about traction control on trailers.

Phermenter

washington is a little confusing. one trailer braking wheel chained? ???doesn't make a lot of sense to me. i am going to chain both wheels on my tow dolly.
www.wsdot.wa.gov/CommercialVehicle/diagram.htm

[RV Roamer]

related question... do modern class A MHs have ABS?  With air brakes, is there such a feature?

The answer is Yes and Yes. I have both on my 2004 coach. And had hydraulic brakes with ABS on the previous 2002 coach.

[taoshum]

The answer is Yes and Yes. I have both on my 2004 coach. And had hydraulic brakes with ABS on the previous 2002 coach.

Is there a way to tell if I have ABS?  I bought this 2007 rig used and I don't have the original "window sticker".  ABS is sorta standard on late model cars anymore.

[Ned]

If you have ABS, there will be an ABS light on the dash that will illuminate when you turn the key on and start the engine.  It will go out after the self check if the system is working correctly.  It will explained in your chassis manual.

[John From Detroit]

Well, as always rule #1 on less than perfect roads is SLOW DOWN!!!!

In this case. I'm going to make a suggestion.. Talk to a PROFESSIONAL semi driver.. A 5'er is much like a semi trailer. the big difference is you usually do not have enough tow vehicle under a 5er where as the semi driver is better off in that area.

I know, years ago, my brother described what he did when "Stuff" happened. and as a result he kept control of his truck and trailer combo.... Alas, too many years ago for me to recall..

But the key thing you need to do is make sure tires do not skid, this may mean making adjustments to your brake controller, and/or even disabling one or the other braking systems in some cases.... Frankly. I don't know which systems need limiting.. A professional driver... Should

Reading material is the commercial driver's license manual which you should be able to find at your local Driver's SLicense office

[taoshum]

If you have ABS, there will be an ABS light on the dash that will illuminate when you turn the key on and start the engine.  It will go out after the self check if the system is working correctly.  It will explained in your chassis manual.

Duh, I shoulda/coulda thought of thiat... sorry to bother you.

[Phermenter]

Thanks again all!  I'll check the CDL book, and ask around. I know a few drivers, they might be able to help.

Phermenter

[John From Detroit]

The thing about ABS is that it works on the TOW vehicle, but I do not know of any trailers that have ABS.  and this can create some serious issues.

As I said, speak with a truck driver, one with Michigan, or Wisconson or other northern states plates on his rig

[jack r]

Phermenter

You will find in washington when chain up is required 4 wheel drive don't have to, however you should put a drag chain on your trailer. (drag chain is at least one chain on a trailer tire) DON'T travel over 25 mph. If you brake a cross member on the chain you will cause some expensive damage to the wheel well. You might also want to lower the drivers window so you can listen to the chain. You will be able to tell if a cross member brakes.
Use bungee cords to tighten the chains.  tighter the chains  less chance they will break.

former big rig driver.

[Phermenter]

Thanks Jack!

[56kz2slow]

I have never seen any chain on tires here in the winter except for plow trucks.  Towing a fifth wheel in my opinion is no different then a transport truck.  The only difference is the transport truck is heavier and bigger.  Also the drivers have more experience towing, which is why they still drive the speed limit or over even when the conditions are bad. (sarcasm).

[Phermenter]

Hello all...

  I thought I'd just finish up the thread by saying thanks for all the responses. I have found out that the law here in Washington state requires drag chains on trailers.

Phermenter