Topic: Need help with these images (Read 1969 times)

Tom · « **on:** October 31, 2009, 05:43:46 PM »

Took a few shots this morning, but they didn't seem to come out too well. Thought I'd left the lens cover on. Nope, must have some settings wrong. Pictures taken from the same spot with my Panasonic (see 3rd picture) are quite a bit clearer. Time to exchange the Canon for a Nikon

Nah, it happened to be foggy at first light today.

ArdraF · « **Reply #1 on:** October 31, 2009, 06:13:32 PM »

That's the way I remember the Bay Area. Soupy one hour and gorgeous sun the next. Good photos.

ArdraF

Tom · « **Reply #2 on:** October 31, 2009, 08:33:57 PM »

Aye Ardra, it's that time of year. Anytime between now and the end of February we're likely to get early morning fog, aka tule fog out here in the Delta. It's random, and obviously a function of temperature and humidity.

seilerbird · « **Reply #3 on:** October 31, 2009, 08:53:09 PM »

I thought I would do some constructive criticism. I really liked the scene of the harbor but there were some small problems so I corrected them as much as I could. I could have done a better job if I had started from the original. The horizon was slightly crooked, so I straightened it. The horizon was too close to the center with too much blue sky showing so I cropped it a bit. The objects in the foreground were in the shade so I lightened then up a bit and I added some saturation to give the water and sky a bit more blue. This is called post processing.

seilerbird · « **Reply #4 on:** October 31, 2009, 08:54:54 PM »

Now that I look at the both of them together I think I added too much blue. I think I should have adjusted the white balance.

Tom · « **Reply #5 on:** October 31, 2009, 09:05:08 PM »

Thanks Tom, much appreciated. I was looking at the far row of houses as the center of the scene, and used the 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 rule, which is why I ended up with so much sky. You took a different perspective, which I now understand. Agreed, there's too much blue. I'll go play with the original.

Hope you'll comment on my birds pictures here.

seilerbird · « **Reply #6 on:** October 31, 2009, 10:53:29 PM »

The 1/3rd rule is great, however the horizon isn't the subject. The boathouse and the ladder are and so they are at the 1/3rd points. I did the post processing in a really big hurry because I was running out of battery and didn't have a place to recharge it. So I didn't redo the photo. I have found some power so now I will go tackle your bird questions.

Marsha/CA · « **Reply #7 on:** November 01, 2009, 11:13:13 AM »

Hi Tom,

Just playing around here. I would have taken the image from a different point. I would have only had 1 subject in the front part of the photo instead of 3. No offense meant, just a different viewpoint.

Marsha~

Tom · « **Reply #8 on:** November 01, 2009, 11:33:27 AM »

Thanks Marsha. I suspect I wasn't thinking about composition when I took that (my point-and-shoot mentality again). IIRC I took it shortly after the storm that arrived the day Russ left here.

Tom · « **Reply #9 on:** November 01, 2009, 11:39:11 AM »

Last evening I planted a bug in the ear of the Activities Director of a local retired guys' group to which I belong. I suggested he add photography as an organized activity, and let him know that my specific interest was in learning the basics. There's a wealth of knowledge and experience in this group, and I have to believe there are some accomplished photographers there who would be prepared to help a neophyte.
[edit]Fixed typo.[/edit]

seilerbird · « **Reply #10 on:** November 01, 2009, 11:54:26 AM »

Quote from: Marsha/CA on November 01, 2009, 11:13:13 AM

Hi Tom,

Just playing around here. I would have taken the image from a different point. I would have only had 1 subject in the front part of the photo instead of 3. No offense meant, just a different viewpoint.

Marsha~

I like you version best of all Marsha.

spunky · « **Reply #11 on:** November 02, 2009, 03:59:32 AM »

Hey Tom, I know all about that tule fog. I lived out on the Delta for well over 20 years. It would get so bad on Highway 4 that they'd have to close the road. The last few years we lived there we didn't see nearly as much fog because of all the houses that were build. It so scary to drive in that tule fog-I hated it.

Now we are living in NV in the Carson Valley, and love it here. There are lots of photographers and artists in this area. Just a great place to do photography.

Tom · « **Reply #12 on:** November 02, 2009, 06:08:33 AM »

Aye, we've been caught in tule fog while on the water a few times.

PancakeBill · « **Reply #13 on:** November 02, 2009, 07:01:02 AM »

I love it when the water is mirror smooth. Fog is also a lot of fun to play with. I have some on my FB from our night in GA.

The idea of the retired guy club is a great one. There was a photography group out in Yellowstone I didn't know about till it was over, will be ready next season. The Critique sessions can be invaluable to making strides in progress.

Tom · « **Reply #14 on:** November 02, 2009, 07:12:43 AM »

Hi Bill,

I've always been intrigued by the 'fog' photos I've seen folks take. Any suggestions on my 'fog' pictures? i.e. what should I do to get any kind of interesting result (other than wait for it to burn off)?

Pierat · « **Reply #15 on:** November 02, 2009, 05:05:46 PM »

No serious suggestions, until it lifts a bit, but there might be advanced imagery equipment that sees through some fog. Or move to Arizona.

PancakeBill · « **Reply #16 on:** November 02, 2009, 08:20:13 PM »

Just work with it in your composition. Marsha cropped to use it, sometimes you can do it in the camera, sometimes you need to do it in post process. Don't stick with the standard ratio, make a long tall skinny composition, or same and sideways. Play with it.

Marsha/CA · « **Reply #17 on:** November 02, 2009, 09:03:01 PM »

Tom, I took the liberty of playing around with one of your fog photos. Everything I did was in Picassa.

Marsha~

Tom · « **Reply #18 on:** November 02, 2009, 09:08:12 PM »

A big thanks Marsha. I was hoping someone would give me some clues on how to snap the 'foggy' shots to get the best photo, prior to post processing. If the information isn't in the original shot, it's tough to get much improvement later.

Marsha/CA · « **Reply #19 on:** November 02, 2009, 10:22:31 PM »

FYI, after I cropped it, I then added contrast and increased the shadows level, trying to get the fog lighter and the houses across the water to show up better.. It just gave the photo a different element. For me the Photo Shop program is not intuitive, so I just tinker using Picassa. I think fog shots are very hard to do. You can get all set, and then the fog gets thicker right before your eyes; or may even thin out.

This entire discussion has gotten me back into "photograph" thinking.

Marsha~

Tom · « **Reply #20 on:** November 02, 2009, 10:58:16 PM »

Thanks again Marsha. I understand how to tinker with Photoshop and several other image processing software packages I have here, although I don't necessarily have the 'eye' for it. But I'm still trying to understand how I should have set the camera to take the best shot.

Mexray · « **Reply #21 on:** November 03, 2009, 01:12:42 AM »

Tom,
A few years back, we decided to take our old Marine Trader out to Stephen's Anchorage and bring in the New Year with the fine folks at Marina West Yacht club...

It was a three day weekend, so the night before the party about 8 of us hopped into a boat and headed down river to Lost Isle for a New Years Eve, Eve party! We had a grand time that evening, as it's not too crowded out on the river that time of year...in the wee hours as we headed back up river, the fog, by now, was of course in 'pea soup' mode!...

We crept along at a few knots, following the Starboard side of the river, along the levee...all of a sudden, A large white light, faint at first, became much brighter, heading right for us!...we're already as close to the levee as we can safely get - is that a freighter heading down river from the Port of Stockton?...Does the Southern Pacific have some new 'tracks' out here with a highballing freight heading for us?...

As we drew closer to our 'doom', the faint shape of a large barge loaded with levee Rip-Rap was tied to the levee on our side of the river!...none of us had seen the thing there earlier in the evening - at least that's my story and I'm sticking to it!...We avoided a rather cold swim that night as we maneuvered with care around the 'obstruction', and safely back to our Trawler!

As it came to be, that wasn't our last bout with the fog that weekend...the fog remained socked in the whole weekend, that we couldn't leave the marina on the third day, and elected to stay a fourth and hope the fog abated...WRONG - we decided to give it a try, and crept along the Eastern side of the river back to our berth upriver near Dad's Point...we've made that voyage probably a hundred times in years past, but still became disoriented as we tried to get across the mouth of the Calaveras River where it joins the San Joaquin River - really spooky, as we could hear the day time noises from the Port, but couldn't see five feet in front of us in broad daylight!!! I installed radar on our trawler that next summer - sure wish I'd had it that New Years weekend!

Never underestimate the 'power' of a foggy river to get you lost - even when you think you know where you're going!

Ray

Tom · « **Reply #22 on:** November 03, 2009, 01:49:36 AM »

LOL Ray, been there, done that - too many times. One trip up from the Bay, relying on radar and GPS tied to a PC, made a believer out of Chris. Seeing 3 blobs on the radar, knowing they were a tanker and a couple of pilot boats, but not knowing for sure if they were coming towards us or going away from us until we passed each other on the river. Losing all sense of direction in San Pablo Bay, knowing we could run aground in a heartbeat, and having to rely on autopilot. Chris never complained about me buying electronics after that trip

BTW I'm sure you know there's an RV park on the water adjacent to the Marina West YC ( http://www.riverpointlanding.com/ ). Every time we pass it by boat we think it would be a neat place to stay, but have never taken the coach there, although we've been to the YC by boat.

Edit: As I wrote this, I discovered and fixed an error in our library file on RV parks in the CA Delta.

Mexray · « **Reply #23 on:** November 03, 2009, 09:40:02 PM »

Alas, Marina West YC is no longer there...when their lease ran out a few years ago, the owner wouldn't go for another - the RV 'slips' bring in more $ than the old YC could muster...it's too bad, as it was a great spot, we've spent a bunch great evenings there in past years...

Some friends of ours use the River Point RV Park all the time (Class C type) - it's indeed a good spot, for a couple of days - watching the river activity, and the location is close to several good restaurants in town, etc...The only drawback is that it's a bit 'tight' for 5'ers and trailers, out there on the 'point', most Moho's can maneuver without too much trouble, though...be sure to use your wheel chocks - most Moho's don't float very long if they roll into the river...

Also, don't forget, this time of year, sometimes you can also watch the fog roll up the river and engulf your rig like a scene out of a 'slasher' movie...

Bob Buchanan · « **Reply #24 on:** November 03, 2009, 10:20:35 PM »

Quote from: Tom on November 03, 2009, 01:49:36 AM

Seeing 3 blobs on the radar, knowing they were a tanker and a couple of pilot boats, but not knowing for sure if they were coming towards us or going away from us until we passed each other on the river.

That made me think of a half century ago as a young sailor assigned to a CIC underway watch during the Suez Canal conflict - we had a bright Lt in charge that the Captain loved to ride. One AM about 0200 I was plotting two blips on radar, and the Lt was tracking and reporting to the Capt. on the bridge.

The Captain kept telling him to be more specific in his reporting as we were in a war zone -- so on the next reading, the Lt. reported, "Sir, you have a vessel on collision course, at his and our present course and speed will hit us in 28 minutes 37.4 seconds, 3.5 feet aft of frame 37 starboard side -- Sir!"

Tom · « **Reply #25 on:** November 03, 2009, 11:21:59 PM »

Ray, too bad about MWYC. Last time we were there, Chris organized a cruise-in for their Mardi Gras party. IIRC it was her "Commodore's mystery cruise", during her Commodore year in our boat club. The MWYC folks really made us feel welcome.

I probably should check out Riverpoint by car before taking the coach there; It's been too many years since I last drove in there by road. IIRC it's at the end of March Lane, off I-5.

Pierat · « **Reply #26 on:** November 04, 2009, 12:25:28 PM »

Interesting. Reminds me of the non-nautical Army training experience of night land navigation through Japanese farmers' melon patches at oh-dark-thirty, back in the day, near Mt. Fuji. Whole Engineer squad. Upset farmer.

Back to fog photos -- IIRC, like snow, the fog is white but your camera's meter is calibrated for 18% gray. That is, the meter wants the image to average out as 18% gray. Confronted with a white subject, the meter adjusts it to be 18% gray. As a result, the fog or snow is underexposed. If you manually adjust the camera to increase exposure the proper amount, the fog or snow becomes white in the photograph. It's why you see many snow photos with blue-looking snow, etc. So, I'd look at the settings the meter is giving you, and add maybe a stop or stop and a half, see what you get, and adjust as needed, and please let us know how it works. Here's wishing you good light - John

Tom · « **Reply #27 on:** November 04, 2009, 12:36:29 PM »

Thanks John. I'll give that a try next time we wake up to fog.

Your message reminds me I read something about photographing snow; Might have been on the Canon web site. I'll go look for it.

Tom · « **Reply #28 on:** November 04, 2009, 12:46:54 PM »

Great story Bob. The ship's radar obviously had MARPA or its equivalent. We have MARPA built into our radar, but the electronic compass isn't really accurate enough; One of these days I'll spring for a selective heading sensor ($$$). I've seen it in action aboard a friend's boat with the same radar; A number of targets can be acquired and automatically tracked, and intercept time and location are available by rolling the cursor over a target. I'd imagine the navy uses far more sophisticated (and way more expensive) versions.

A few friends were coming up the coast from southern CA at night, when their radar picked up these two blobs that were approaching their stern at a high speed. It turned out to be a couple of patrol helicopters who buzzed them, figured they were good guys, and left.

We were on our way up the coast from a weekend in Monterey. I kept seeing one or more targets to our starboard, and asked the crew and passengers to keep a sharp lookout. It took me a while to realize the "targets" were actually seagulls flying alongside the radar array.

tvman44 · « **Reply #29 on:** November 04, 2009, 02:54:22 PM »

The first 2 look like you brought the camera outside from a cool bldg to a warm humid environment.

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Author Topic: Need help with these images (Read 1969 times)