Need help with these images

[Tom]

Took a few shots this morning, but they didn't seem to come out too well. Thought I'd left the lens cover on. Nope, must have some settings wrong. Pictures taken from the same spot with my Panasonic (see 3rd picture) are quite a bit clearer. Time to exchange the Canon for a Nikon 

Nah, it happened to be foggy at first light today.

[ArdraF]

That's the way I remember the Bay Area.  Soupy one hour and gorgeous sun the next.  Good photos.

ArdraF

[Tom]

Aye Ardra, it's that time of year. Anytime between now and the end of February we're likely to get early morning fog, aka tule fog out here in the Delta. It's random, and obviously a function of temperature and humidity.

[seilerbird]

I thought I would do some constructive criticism. I really liked the scene of the harbor but there were some small problems so I corrected them as much as I could. I could have done a better job if I had started from the original. The horizon was slightly crooked, so I straightened it. The horizon was too close to the center with too much blue sky showing so I cropped it a bit. The objects in the foreground were in the shade so I lightened then up a bit and I added some saturation to give the water and sky a bit more blue. This is called post processing.

[seilerbird]

Now that I look at the both of them together I think I added too much blue. I think I should have adjusted the white balance.

[Tom]

Thanks Tom, much appreciated. I was looking at the far row of houses as the center of the scene, and used the 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 rule, which is why I ended up with so much sky. You took a different perspective, which I now understand. Agreed, there's too much blue. I'll go play with the original.

Hope you'll comment on my birds pictures here.

[seilerbird]

The 1/3rd rule is great, however the horizon isn't the subject. The boathouse and the ladder are and so they are at the 1/3rd points. I did the post processing in a really big hurry because I was running out of battery and didn't have a place to recharge it. So I didn't redo the photo. I have found some power so now I will go tackle your bird questions.

[Marsha/CA]

Hi Tom,

Just playing around here.  I would have taken the image from a different point.  I would have only had 1 subject in the front part of the photo instead of 3.  No offense meant, just a different viewpoint.

Marsha~

[Tom]

Thanks Marsha. I suspect I wasn't thinking about composition when I took that (my point-and-shoot mentality again). IIRC I took it shortly after the storm that arrived the day Russ left here.

[Tom]

Last evening I planted a bug in the ear of the Activities Director of a local retired guys' group to which I belong. I suggested he add photography as an organized activity, and let him know that my specific interest was in learning the basics. There's a wealth of knowledge and experience in this group, and I have to believe there are some accomplished photographers there who would be prepared to help a neophyte.
[edit]Fixed typo.[/edit]

[seilerbird]

Hi Tom,

Just playing around here.  I would have taken the image from a different point.  I would have only had 1 subject in the front part of the photo instead of 3.  No offense meant, just a different viewpoint.

Marsha~

I like you version best of all Marsha.

[spunky]

Hey Tom, I know all about that tule fog. I lived out on the Delta for well over 20 years. It would get so bad on Highway 4 that they'd have to close the road. The last few years we lived there we didn't see nearly as much fog because of all the houses that were build. It so scary to drive in that tule fog-I hated it.

Now we are living in NV in the Carson Valley, and love it here. There are lots of photographers and artists in this area. Just a great place to do photography.

[Tom]

Aye, we've been caught in tule fog while on the water a few times.

[PancakeBill]

I love it when the water is mirror smooth.  Fog is also a lot of fun to play with.  I have some on my FB from our night in GA.  

The idea of the retired guy club is a great one.  There was a photography group out in Yellowstone I didn't know about till it was over, will be ready next season.  The Critique sessions can be invaluable to making strides in progress.

[Tom]

Hi Bill,

I've always been intrigued by the 'fog' photos I've seen folks take. Any suggestions on my 'fog' pictures? i.e. what should I do to get any kind of interesting result (other than wait for it to burn off)?

[Pierat]

No serious suggestions, until it lifts a bit, but there might be advanced imagery equipment that sees through some fog. Or move to Arizona.

[PancakeBill]

Just work with it in your composition.  Marsha cropped to use it, sometimes you can do it in the camera, sometimes you need to do it in post process.  Don't stick with the standard ratio, make a long tall skinny composition, or same and sideways.  Play with it. 

[Marsha/CA]

Tom, I took the liberty of playing around with one of your fog photos.  Everything I did was in Picassa.

Marsha~

[Tom]

A big thanks Marsha. I was hoping someone would give me some clues on how to snap the 'foggy' shots to get the best photo, prior to post processing. If the information isn't in the original shot, it's tough to get much improvement later.

[Marsha/CA]

FYI,  after I cropped it, I then added contrast and increased the shadows level, trying to get the fog lighter and the houses across the water to show up better..  It just gave the photo a different element.  For me the Photo Shop program is not intuitive, so I just tinker using Picassa.  I think fog shots are very hard to do.  You can get all set, and then the fog gets thicker right before your eyes; or may even thin out.

This entire discussion has gotten me back into "photograph" thinking. 

Marsha~

[Tom]

Thanks again Marsha. I understand how to tinker with Photoshop and several other image processing software packages I have here, although I don't necessarily have the 'eye' for it. But I'm still trying to understand how I should have set the camera to take the best shot.

[Mexray]

Tom,
A few years back, we decided to take our old Marine Trader out to Stephen's Anchorage and bring in the New Year with the fine folks at Marina West Yacht club...

It was a three day weekend, so the night before the party about 8 of us hopped into a boat and headed down river to Lost Isle for a New Years Eve, Eve party!  We had a grand time that evening, as it's not too crowded out on the river that time of year...in the wee hours as we headed back up river, the fog, by now, was of course in 'pea soup' mode!...

We crept along at a few knots, following the Starboard side of the river, along the levee...all of a sudden, A large white light, faint at first, became much brighter, heading right for us!...we're already as close to the levee as we can safely get - is that a freighter heading down river from the Port of Stockton?...Does the Southern Pacific have some new 'tracks' out here with a highballing freight heading for us?...

As we drew closer to our 'doom', the faint shape of a large barge loaded with levee Rip-Rap was tied to the levee on our side of the river!...none of us had seen the thing there earlier in the evening - at least that's my story and I'm sticking to it!...We avoided a rather cold swim that night as we maneuvered with care around the 'obstruction', and safely back to our Trawler!

As it came to be, that wasn't our last bout with the fog that weekend...the fog remained socked in the whole weekend, that we couldn't leave the marina on the third day, and elected to stay a fourth and hope the fog abated...WRONG - we decided to give it a try, and crept along the Eastern side of the river back to our berth upriver near Dad's Point...we've made that voyage probably a hundred times in years past, but still became disoriented as we tried to get across the mouth of the Calaveras River where it joins the San Joaquin River - really spooky, as we could hear the day time noises from the Port, but couldn't see five feet in front of us in broad daylight!!!  I installed radar on our trawler that next summer - sure wish I'd had it that New Years weekend!

Never underestimate the 'power' of a foggy river to get you lost - even when you think you know where you're going!

Ray

[Tom]

LOL Ray, been there, done that - too many times. One trip up from the Bay, relying on radar and GPS tied to a PC, made a believer out of Chris. Seeing 3 blobs on the radar, knowing they were a tanker and a couple of pilot boats, but not knowing for sure if they were coming towards us or going away from us until we passed each other on the river. Losing all sense of direction in San Pablo Bay, knowing we could run aground in a heartbeat, and having to rely on autopilot. Chris never complained about me buying electronics after that trip  

BTW I'm sure you know there's an RV park on the water adjacent to the Marina West YC ( http://www.riverpointlanding.com/ ). Every time we pass it by boat we think it would be a neat place to stay, but have never taken the coach there, although we've been to the YC by boat.

Edit: As I wrote this, I discovered and fixed an error in our library file on RV parks in the CA Delta.

[Mexray]

Alas, Marina West YC is no longer there...when their lease ran out a few years ago, the owner wouldn't go for another - the RV 'slips' bring in more $ than the old YC could muster...it's too bad, as it was a great spot, we've spent a bunch great evenings there in past years...

Some friends of ours use the River Point RV Park all the time (Class C type) - it's indeed a good spot, for a couple of days - watching the river activity, and the location is close to several good restaurants in town, etc...The only drawback is that it's a bit 'tight' for 5'ers and trailers, out there on the 'point', most Moho's can maneuver without too much trouble, though...be sure to use your wheel chocks - most Moho's don't float very long if they roll into the river...

Also, don't forget, this time of year, sometimes you can also watch the fog roll up the river and engulf your rig like a scene out of a 'slasher' movie...

[Bob Buchanan]

Seeing 3 blobs on the radar, knowing they were a tanker and a couple of pilot boats, but not knowing for sure if they were coming towards us or going away from us until we passed each other on the river.

That made me think of a half century ago as a young sailor assigned to a CIC underway watch during the Suez Canal conflict - we had a bright Lt in charge that the Captain loved to ride. One AM about 0200 I was plotting two blips on radar, and the Lt was tracking and reporting to the Capt. on the bridge.

The Captain kept telling him to be more specific in his reporting as we were in a war zone -- so on the next reading, the Lt. reported, "Sir, you have a vessel on collision course, at his and our present course and speed will hit us in 28 minutes 37.4 seconds, 3.5 feet aft of frame 37 starboard side -- Sir!"

[Tom]

Ray, too bad about MWYC. Last time we were there, Chris organized a cruise-in for their Mardi Gras party. IIRC it was her "Commodore's mystery cruise", during her Commodore year in our boat club. The MWYC folks really made us feel welcome.

I probably should check out Riverpoint by car before taking the coach there; It's been too many years since I last drove in there by road. IIRC it's at the end of March Lane, off I-5.

[Pierat]

Interesting. Reminds me of the non-nautical Army training experience of night land navigation through Japanese farmers' melon patches at oh-dark-thirty, back in the day, near Mt. Fuji. Whole Engineer squad. Upset farmer.

Back to fog photos -- IIRC, like snow, the fog is white but your camera's meter is calibrated for 18% gray. That is, the meter wants the image to average out as 18% gray. Confronted with a white subject, the meter adjusts it to be 18% gray. As a result, the fog or snow is underexposed. If you manually adjust the camera to increase exposure the proper amount, the fog or snow becomes white in the photograph. It's why you see many snow photos with blue-looking snow, etc. So, I'd look at the settings the meter is giving you, and add maybe a stop or stop and a half, see what you get, and adjust as needed, and please let us know how it works. Here's wishing you good light - John

[Tom]

Thanks John. I'll give that a try next time we wake up to fog.

Your message reminds me I read something about photographing snow; Might have been on the Canon web site. I'll go look for it.

[Tom]

Great story Bob. The ship's radar obviously had MARPA or its equivalent. We have MARPA built into our radar, but the electronic compass isn't really accurate enough; One of these days I'll spring for a selective heading sensor ($$$). I've seen it in action aboard a friend's boat with the same radar; A number of targets can be acquired and automatically tracked, and intercept time and location are available by rolling the cursor over a target. I'd imagine the navy uses far more sophisticated (and way more expensive) versions.

A few friends were coming up the coast from southern CA at night, when their radar picked up these two blobs that were approaching their stern at a high speed. It turned out to be a couple of patrol helicopters who buzzed them, figured they were good guys, and left.

We were on our way up the coast from a weekend in Monterey. I kept seeing one or more targets to our starboard, and asked the crew and passengers to keep a sharp lookout. It took me a while to realize the "targets" were actually seagulls flying alongside the radar array.

[tvman44]

The first 2 look like you brought the camera outside from a cool bldg to a warm humid environment.

[Tom]

The first 2 look like you brought the camera outside from a cool bldg to a warm humid environment.

I walked through the patio door in our family room onto the deck behind the house. The outside fog was visible through the door before I picked up the camera 

[Ron from Big D]

As Pierat said, in these situations you have to shoot manual or use exposure compensation to adjust for the light.  Snow demands opening the lens and a dark brown bear requires closing down the lens for proper exposure.  Neither of these conditions usually requires more than a full 2 stops.  It is easier to deal with if you use spot metering mode.

In your harbor photo, I would have left all the foreground info out and concentrated on the wonderful reflections across the way.  If your original is large enough, you can crop many images out of that single one.

[Tom]

Thanks Ron. I need to play around with different exposure settings.

It is easier to deal with if you use spot metering mode.

I've set the default on my camera to spot metering. Are there times when it should be set to something else?

[Marsha/CA]

Tom, I think what Tvman was meaning is that sometimes, like eyeglasses, the lens can become slightly fogged over when you leave a cool building and immediately take a photo in a warm humid environment.

Marsha~

[Tom]

Yes, that's what I understood Marsha. My response explained/clarified that I did the opposite i.e. I walked from inside the house to the outside. So no, my lens wasn't fogged up, neither were my glasses - which would be my first tell tale sign  

Still waiting for the next foggy morning to experiment with the stuff John (Pierat) and Ron suggested.

[seilerbird]

Thanks Ron. I need to play around with different exposure settings.

I've set the default on my camera to spot metering. Are there times when it should be set to something else?

I personally leave mine on spot metering all the time. Works good for me.

[Bob Buchanan]

I've set the default on my camera to spot metering. Are there times when it should be set to something else?

Rarely would you use spot metering, Tom -- unless you want the metering to be confined to the area of the spot. For example when zoomed in on a bird or plane in flight. Otherwise you want to have the meter consider the reflective light from the entire area of your image. Usually, you would also want that to be weighted more to the center if that is where the subject of the image is located. If you leave it on Spot metering, the portions of your image outside of the spot will not be considered -- and that could lead to a very high or low contrast shot. So the image itself determines the type of metering.

Edit: BTW, am not disagreeing with Ron as to fog/snow metering. In that case, I would want to meter just where the fog or snow is, vs. having other reflected light in the image affecting the reading -- so the spot would be good for that situation as well.

The spot can also be used to view different parts of an image as to the amount of reflective light in each. For example, if doing a sunset, I shoot in manual mode -- and use the spot meter to let me know the contrast between the sun and the surrounding image. An "average" is not much help in that case. Ansel Adam's did most all of his metering with a one degree spot meter. He would look at the highest and lowest amount of reflective light in an image as it applied to the subject of his image to figure what he wanted for an f-Stop and Shutter speed. Digital's do most all of that for us now - or allow us to go back to the basics in manual mode and do it as Ansel did.  

[Tom]

Thanks again Bob. Looks like I really do need to experiment with the spot metering and re-review the Canon educational DVD. One nice thing about a DSC (SLR, compact, or P&S) is the ability to see the results immediately after shooting.

[Jim Dick]

Tom,

Fog can really make or break a shot. One morning Pat & I took a ride along the Black Point Wildlife trail on Merritt Island. We came upon a rookery of Egrets around 0730. I set up my camera on a tripod with the 100-400 zoom. I spotted this one egret that was at the forefront of the jumble of bushes where they were nesting. Due to the fog I was able to capture one of my favorite photographs of birds. Without the fog it would have been a washout. If you look very closely you can pick out some of the branches in the background.

[Lorna]

Great shot Jim.

[Jim Dick]

Hi Lorna,

Thanks! It is one of my favorites. We were lucky to be there at the right time.

[Tom]

Thanks Jim. That's definitely one trick I need to remember.

[Jim Dick]

Thanks Jim. That's definitely one trick I need to remember.

I forgot to mention that the depth of field was fairly shallow which also helped with the background. Wish I could remember all this stuff when it comes time to shoot a picture. :-)

[Tom]

Wish I could remember all this stuff when it comes time to shoot a picture.

That's always my problem; I feel lucky if I remember to remove the lens cap  

[Jim Dick]

That's always my problem; I feel lucky if I remember to remove the lens cap 

Tom,

That's one of the best reasons to own an SLR! Can't forget to remove the lens cap. :-)

[Tom]

Hood Good point Jim. I didn't think of that  

[PancakeBill]

Hoods are different than lens caps.  Sometimes you have to remember to put them on.

[Jim Dick]

Hoods are different

Hoods are different than lens caps.  Sometimes you have to remember to put them on.

n lens caps.  Sometimes you have to remember to put them on.

Aw Bill,

Always the practical joker!!! :-) :-)

[Tom]

Oops typo 

[PancakeBill]

Being the king of typo's I feel it is my duty to have fun with the good ons.   

[Tom]

Being the king of typo's...

Bill, that title is rightfully mine, but I don't mind sharing 

[BernieD]

Bill, that title is rightfully mine, but I don't mind sharing 

Let's not forget Ron Ruward just because he hasn't been able to post recently

[PancakeBill]

Do I have to bring in confirmation from all the other forums I participate in?