Goodbye, 8.1 ...

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JNewkirk77

JNewkirk77

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Oct 24, 2009
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Location
Owensboro, KY
Autoblog is reporting today that GM's last big-block engine, the 8.1L, rolled off the Tonawanda, NY assembly line last week and into the waiting arms of the folks at the GM Heritage Collection.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/12/22/report-last-gm-big-block-engine-rolls-off-the-line/

I'm sure those of you folks with 8.1s in your rigs won't have to worry about parts for many years to come, but I do wonder what's next as far as motivation for the big rigs.  The 6.0 and 6.2 small-blocks are fine engines, but IMHO, they just don't have enough "oomph" (read: low-end torque) to tote around a big Class A or Super C effectively.
 
Good question. GM has engines that can probably do the job - various performance powerplants used in the Corvette etc. There is a 505 hp 7.0L, for example, and a 430 hp 6.2L. But it's not clear that Workhorse is even interested in GM engines now that they are part of Navistar.  And if the mid-range Navistar MaxxForce diesels that are now available in the Workhorse W20/W22 chassis catch on, they may not even care if they have a gas engine.
 
Can Navistar make the Maxxforce Diesel competitive with the Ford Gas engine, do you think?
 
GM is doing well with their Duramax / Allison combination in many applications.  They may be content to provide that power train for any heavy duty jobs.  I doubt that you will see many "big block" engine applications anywhere in the automobile market.  I suspect that the heavy duty applications will be using diesels.  ;)

That being said my truck has the Duramax / Allison combination and I love the way it pulls.

John
 
DH looks at this as an opportunity to change out the 496ci with the 572ci crate engine or at least purchase a spare 8.1L since we have the MH and truck equiped with the 8.1L :D.
 
Can Navistar make the Maxxforce Diesel competitive with the Ford Gas engine, do you think?
Click to expand...

Do you mean in price or performance?

Performance is a no-brainer, I think. Should have more power at low RPMS and noticeably better fuel economy. As used in the Workhorse w22D, the MaxxForce 7 diesel generates 230 hp @ 2600 rpms and a whopping 620 lb-ft of torque @ 1400 rpms.

I don't know how competitive the price is, but assume there is a price premium for the 6.4L diesel. Presumably the W22D is price-competitive with the Freightliner FRED, though.
 
RV Roamer said:
Do you mean in price or performance?
Click to expand...

I was thinking, price.

Assuming they (WH) get 50%, or better, of the gas chassis market now, would they do as well competing as a FRED at a significantly higher cost point?

I wouldn't think they would want to leave the gas market to Ford alone.  I guess we'll see, someday. 
 
Some people think that the gas engine market will decline rapidly, first in heavy vehicles but in cars as well as fuel prices climb and the small diesels become available in the US (Europe already has  them). I'm not forecasting - just repeating what a number of pundits are saying. Certainly diesels have made big inroads in the pick-up market, so why not motorhomes too?
 
If they do, expect the price of diesel to rise even more rapidly than gasoline.  Simple supply and demand at work.

You only get a certain range of gas vs. diesel from each barrel of oil.  Put too much demand on one and the price of the opposite one will drop due to the resulting oversupply.

Personally, I think diesel is a poor choice for small engines.  The fuel injection system is already tolerance critical in the big diesels, reduce them in proportion to the engine size and you'll need some awfully tight filtering of the fuel to keep them from clogging.
 
A good portion of each barrel of oil could be made into most anything the refinery chooses. Right now it goes into unleaded gasoline, but it could just as easily be made into diesel. Supply will follow demand, in this case, though there would undoubtedly be a few years of transition when diesel is in short supply (already true worldwide) and gas in excess of demand.
 
A 42 gal of crude makes 44+ gal of products (think popcorn) Today the avg is ~ gasoline 18.56 gal;diesel10.3 gal; other products 7.01gal; Heating oil 1.38gal; Jet 4.07 gal;LPG 1.72gal

Refiners will apportion to best price and demand

other products include and are often better revenue generators

# Ink
# Crayons
# Bubble gum
# Dishwashing liquids
# Deodorant
# Eyeglasses
# CDs and DVDs
# Tires
# Ammonia
# Heart valves
 
blueblood said:
A 42 gal of crude makes 44+ gal of products (think popcorn) Today the avg is ~ gasoline 18.56 gal;diesel10.3 gal; other products 7.01gal; Heating oil 1.38gal; Jet 4.07 gal;LPG 1.72gal
Click to expand...

Interesting that in 1995 (14 years ago) the average was 19.5 gal of gasoline produced from each barrel by U.S refineries.  I guess US Industries, in general, had better put a few more pounds of air in their tires for better mileage. ;)
 
It is a sad goodbye, I have an '02 8.1w/ally tranny, love the truck, smoothest and quietest riding vehicle I've ever owned.  I hope parts will be availiable for some time to come, but I only have 40k miles so not an immediate concern.

With the 8.1L (496CI) and Allison, I feel great riding down (or up) the road. I guess the "tree huggers" have won another one!
 
blueblood said:
A 42 gal of crude makes 44+ gal of products (think popcorn) Today the avg is ~ gasoline 18.56 gal;diesel10.3 gal; other products 7.01gal; Heating oil 1.38gal; Jet 4.07 gal;LPG 1.72gal
Click to expand...

Last I knew Home Heating oil and diesel were the same product. Diesel fuel is dyed to so that the road tax has been pay. When I lived in Vermont some of the rural folks "cheated" and used heating oil in the diesel PU trucks. Big fine if you get caught.

This may no longer be true with the new Ultra Low Sulfur diesel.

ken

edit: Moderator added missing end-quote tag
 
The difference between #2 diesel and home heating oil (& kerosene too) was basically the additives used in diesel, but I suspect Ken is right that there is now a difference in the degree of refining as well. There is currently no requirement to remove sulfur from heating fuels (except California) so the refining has probably been different ever since LSD was mandated.
 
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