electrical surge protectors

Jammer said:

Regarding your second question, in general, the autotransformer-based buck/boost voltage regulators, sold by Autoformer and their competition, can compensate for overvoltage the same way they compensate for undervoltage but in reverse.

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I went to their website, www.autoformers.com and I saw nothing about high voltage, except for spikes and suppressors... I probably missed something though.  thx, G.

According to the Autoformer site, it goes into Bypass at 118v, though "bypass" still results in an output that is 2% above the input voltage. Apparently there is no downward voltage adjustment in the current model.

I am told there is one company that does make one that will Buck high voltage.. There are several that make boosters.


Alas.. I forget the name of the one that does both

It is NOT Franks, and it's NOT Hughes, That I do recall

I am told there is one company that does make one that will Buck high voltage

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What do you mean by "Buck high voltage" ??  ... the TRC and Progressive surge guards (and others too no doubt) will cut off power in event of high voltage just like they will in event of low voltage. I have seen many people writhe that they use an Autoformer to aid with sagging voltage, and ALSO use a surge guard with over/under cut-off capabilities ...I presume to protect the Autoformer from high voltage?

Autotransformers that can boost voltage are inherently able to buck it just by reversing the connections.  If the ones on the market don't, it's because they don't have the relays or controls or whatever to do it.

A simplified way of thinking about it is that an AC voltage regulator has typically three output taps at 8, 16, and 24 volts.  It can take then 8, 16, or 24 volts and either add it to or subtract it from the input voltage.  If the controls and switches and relays only allow it to add, there's only half the potential benefit that the heavy expensive part (the transformer) can provide.

Go figure.

The ones sold for use outside the U.S., where overvoltage is more common (because they set the voltages higher to try to compensate for voltage drop and reduce the effects of undervoltage), all run both ways.

afchap said:

What do you mean by "Buck high voltage" ??  ... the TRC and Progressive surge guards (and others too no doubt) will cut off power in event of high voltage just like they will in event of low voltage. I have seen many people writhe that they use an Autoformer to aid with sagging voltage, and ALSO use a surge guard with over/under cut-off capabilities ...I presume to protect the Autoformer from high voltage?

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I read about the $400 TRC surge guard and the $600 (50#) autoformer that will boost low voltage a little but I'm looking for something that will limit the high voltage to no more than 130V, not turn the power off, just limit the voltage AND limit the low voltage by boosting it where possible, not just turn off the power.  I guess it would be nice if the power goes off when the voltage gets out of range, but it would be much nicer if the power did not go off, just kept within limits.  Is this really so difficult that I have to put two of these devices in series????? and spend the better part of $1000 to do it???? Duh.

John From Detroit said:

I am told there is one company that does make one that will Buck high voltage.. There are several that make boosters.


Alas.. I forget the name of the one that does both

It is NOT Franks, and it's NOT Hughes, That I do recall

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Powermaster..

http://antennas.startlogic.com/pm.htm

http://antennas.startlogic.com/index.html

http://www.powermasterrv.com/images/VCcomparison.pdf

Call and ask your questions to the guy at number listed..he knows Franks and used to build Hughs. I use this one...works great for me.. two years for me and no problems..

Ask for sale price..they give you a better one than posted here.

Charlie

I don't see anything on the Powermaster spec that says it bucks (reduces) overvoltage. It only talks about two levels of boost.

View the Powermaster User Manual here:
http://www.powermasterrv.com/images/VC3050UsersGuide.pdf

To Pubtym

Thanks.. Powermaster.. Yes that's it.  Thanks again

ALas, it's a bit late for me since I got a Hughes back in 2006,, but ... IF the Hughes ever needs replacement.. Powermaster it will be I think.

I just got off the phone with developer of Powermaster.

Post Question 1. What will Powermaster do-not do if I plug into docking station with open ground-nuetral?

Answer: When Powermaster is first plugged in...it internally (circuitboard) does a diagnostic. That accounts for the 3-5 second delay before current outflow starts. If there is a malfunction in the dock wires..its simple to detect..Powermaster Unit MAL code is IDW (It don't work).

Post Question 2: What about high voltage?

Answer: My assumption is term "High Voltage-Overvoltage" is meant by current input to Powermaster or coach is 120V+ or minus 10V (Power Industry Standard)...ie up to 130V. With today's powerline management systems from commercial companies to user's RV park..it is extremely rare to have direct dock line voltage over 130V...that's a V give away costing the power company money.  V up to 132- 134 is not a problem for most electronics. The probability of low line voltage from dock station < 110 V is much more common bigger problem with parks having 30 amp-50 amp service and users all on line with A/Cs..electric water heaters..elect space heaters..microwave..hair dryers.. Here,...Powermaster senses the lower than 110V and begins either a stage 1 or stage 2 boost to return coach input to near or slightly above 120V.

Charlie

It really warms my heart to see marketing-FUD crafted with this degree of care and attention to detail, and brings back fond memories of some expert practitioners in the field who I have had the pleasure to work with over the years.

For quite some time, the NEC has required campgrounds be wired to deliver an average of  at least 33 amps for each 50 amp site, and 10 amps for each 30 amp site, with voltage drops calculated to be reasonable.  The only way it's realistic to exceed this is at older campgrounds with few 50 amp sites, where the campground is quite full and everyone is running the A/C on a hot day.

Those are the scenarios we hear about.

You can get overvoltage one of two ways, either through the power company deliberately setting the line voltage a little hot to compensate for voltage drop somewhere farther away, or because of an unbalanced load in the campground itself, which can happen if the electrician who wired the campground didn't think through which posts to wire to which leg.  Both situations are rare, in the U.S.

Then again so is low voltage, though maybe not as rare.

Just for interest, here is a place that sells the transformers themselves, the "active ingredient" so to speak, without any controls:

http://www.phaseconverter.com/spbtransformer.html

The KVA spec on these is the boost KVA, not the total load.  So if you have a 30 amp load and want a 12 volt boost you would need a 0.36 KVA transformer; the next size up in the chart is a .50.

These include cabinets.  There are cheaper sources that do not.

Low voltage..is my #1 concern...and it is an electronics cancer to all the coach/RV electrics...seen it much more than V above 125

I use my Powermaster all the time...

Charlie

Pubtym said:

Low voltage..is my #1 concern...and it is an electronics cancer to all the coach/RV electrics...seen it much more than V above 125

I use my Powermaster all the time...

Charlie

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The only time I've seen voltage "out of spec" is in San Carlos, Son, Mx where it was 132.  When I turned on the a/c it went down to 128.  The RV park was only 1/3 full though so I don't know what woulda happened if the place was full.

My red flag for voltage issues is an older (15-20 ) year old RV park...first built to the old 20 amp infrastructure.."remodeled" by low bid electrical contractor....on a hot day (A/C required) or cold day (spot heaters in use)...MS, FL, AL, LS, TX

Look at the pedestal and outlet...has it been through the Korean War with campers? Imagine what internal connections are like?

Charlie

Pubtym said:

My red flag for voltage issues is an older (15-20 ) year old RV park...first built to the old 20 amp infrastructure.."remodeled" by low bid electrical contractor....on a hot day (A/C required) or cold day (spot heaters in use)...MS, FL, AL, LS, TX

Look at the pedestal and outlet...has it been through the Korean War with campers? Imagine what internal connections are like?

Charlie

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I believe you... but it has been 20 years since I've been to any of those states, except S. Padre Is, TX; so I haven't been places which were that "old".  LOL, I get nervous whenever I get east of the Miss River.

I have a progressive industries EMS HW30C hardwired into my 5th wheel. The readout is showing approx 112V into the camper with only the fridge running. As soon as I turn on the furnace, coffee pot etc the voltage drops below 104V and cuts power which it should do. The parks pedestal is showing 125V yet I?m only getting 112V into the camper. Any ideas as I can only run a couple of electrical items at the same time? Should also note that I?m not using anymore than about 10 amps.

Glad this thread was revitalized.  The Pace Arrow we just purchased came with a Surge Protector.  Not sure how old it is or whether it works.  Is there a way to test the unit to make sure it is working properly.  Don't recall the model, but when new, they sold for about $350.00. 

A $350 unit is probably a power monitor as well as a surge protector. The make & model would define it better.

Testing a power monitor implies feeding it various "bad" power situations to see if it responds. High/low voltage. off-frequency, miswired receptacles, etc.  I doubt if many have the capability to do that. With some basic skills and a 50A power outlet to tinker with, you could do the wiring tests, though.

The surge protection part of the device wears out over time. The MOV devices inside that do the surge handling are sacrificial. Each time a surge is absorbed, a little of its capability goes away. Bigger surges hurt more, but there are rarely frequent.

Gary RV_Wizard said:

A $350 unit is probably a power monitor as well as a surge protector. The make & model would define it better.

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Thanks Gary.  Model is TRC 34750.  It is a power protector and does provide low, high and reverse polarity.  Label on the side says to plug it in and wait for 2 mins 16 secs before turning on power to RV.  It also says to refer to instruction booklet (which we don't have) if either the caution or time delay lights remain illuminated.  I guess we can just plug it in and hope it hasn't been impaired by prior surges.  Can the MOV devices be replaced?