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Author Topic: electrical surge protectors  (Read 14536 times)

Jammer

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Re: electrical surge protectors
« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2010, 11:47:41 AM »
It really warms my heart to see marketing-FUD crafted with this degree of care and attention to detail, and brings back fond memories of some expert practitioners in the field who I have had the pleasure to work with over the years.

For quite some time, the NEC has required campgrounds be wired to deliver an average of  at least 33 amps for each 50 amp site, and 10 amps for each 30 amp site, with voltage drops calculated to be reasonable.  The only way it's realistic to exceed this is at older campgrounds with few 50 amp sites, where the campground is quite full and everyone is running the A/C on a hot day.

Those are the scenarios we hear about.

You can get overvoltage one of two ways, either through the power company deliberately setting the line voltage a little hot to compensate for voltage drop somewhere farther away, or because of an unbalanced load in the campground itself, which can happen if the electrician who wired the campground didn't think through which posts to wire to which leg.  Both situations are rare, in the U.S.

Then again so is low voltage, though maybe not as rare.
2004 Suburban 2500 4wd 8.1 / 2010 Airstream Classic 30' /
1997 K2500 regular cab long bed pickup / 1971 Cayo C-11

Jammer

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Re: electrical surge protectors
« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2010, 11:56:24 AM »
Just for interest, here is a place that sells the transformers themselves, the "active ingredient" so to speak, without any controls:

http://www.phaseconverter.com/spbtransformer.html

The KVA spec on these is the boost KVA, not the total load.  So if you have a 30 amp load and want a 12 volt boost you would need a 0.36 KVA transformer; the next size up in the chart is a .50.

These include cabinets.  There are cheaper sources that do not.

2004 Suburban 2500 4wd 8.1 / 2010 Airstream Classic 30' /
1997 K2500 regular cab long bed pickup / 1971 Cayo C-11

Pubtym

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Re: electrical surge protectors
« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2010, 12:04:14 PM »
Low voltage..is my #1 concern...and it is an electronics cancer to all the coach/RV electrics...seen it much more than V above 125

I use my Powermaster all the time...

Charlie
Pubtym
Green Hornet, Viet Nam 68-69
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2006 Itasca Suncruiser Model 35U

taoshum

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Re: electrical surge protectors
« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2010, 12:13:51 PM »
Low voltage..is my #1 concern...and it is an electronics cancer to all the coach/RV electrics...seen it much more than V above 125

I use my Powermaster all the time...

Charlie

The only time I've seen voltage "out of spec" is in San Carlos, Son, Mx where it was 132.  When I turned on the a/c it went down to 128.  The RV park was only 1/3 full though so I don't know what woulda happened if the place was full.
07 Itasca Meridian 34SH.  '08 Jeep Sahara.
Taos, NM.

Pubtym

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Re: electrical surge protectors
« Reply #34 on: January 28, 2010, 02:20:11 PM »
My red flag for voltage issues is an older (15-20 ) year old RV park...first built to the old 20 amp infrastructure.."remodeled" by low bid electrical contractor....on a hot day (A/C required) or cold day (spot heaters in use)...MS, FL, AL, LS, TX

Look at the pedestal and outlet...has it been through the Korean War with campers? Imagine what internal connections are like?

Charlie
« Last Edit: January 28, 2010, 02:24:47 PM by Pubtym »
Pubtym
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MACVSOG

2006 Itasca Suncruiser Model 35U

taoshum

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Re: electrical surge protectors
« Reply #35 on: January 28, 2010, 02:54:33 PM »
My red flag for voltage issues is an older (15-20 ) year old RV park...first built to the old 20 amp infrastructure.."remodeled" by low bid electrical contractor....on a hot day (A/C required) or cold day (spot heaters in use)...MS, FL, AL, LS, TX

Look at the pedestal and outlet...has it been through the Korean War with campers? Imagine what internal connections are like?

Charlie

I believe you... but it has been 20 years since I've been to any of those states, except S. Padre Is, TX; so I haven't been places which were that "old".  LOL, I get nervous whenever I get east of the Miss River.
07 Itasca Meridian 34SH.  '08 Jeep Sahara.
Taos, NM.

deanjp32

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Re: electrical surge protectors
« Reply #36 on: September 30, 2017, 10:16:22 AM »
I have a progressive industries EMS HW30C hardwired into my 5th wheel. The readout is showing approx 112V into the camper with only the fridge running. As soon as I turn on the furnace, coffee pot etc the voltage drops below 104V and cuts power which it should do. The parks pedestal is showing 125V yet I知 only getting 112V into the camper. Any ideas as I can only run a couple of electrical items at the same time? Should also note that I知 not using anymore than about 10 amps.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2017, 10:18:29 AM by deanjp32 »

garyb1st

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Re: electrical surge protectors
« Reply #37 on: September 30, 2017, 10:46:21 AM »
Glad this thread was revitalized.  The Pace Arrow we just purchased came with a Surge Protector.   Not sure how old it is or whether it works.  Is there a way to test the unit to make sure it is working properly.  Don't recall the model, but when new, they sold for about $350.00.   
Gary B1st

2005 Pace Arrow 35G
2016 Jeep Wrangler

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: electrical surge protectors
« Reply #38 on: September 30, 2017, 11:46:15 AM »
A $350 unit is probably a power monitor as well as a surge protector. The make & model would define it better.

Testing a power monitor implies feeding it various "bad" power situations to see if it responds. High/low voltage. off-frequency, miswired receptacles, etc.  I doubt if many have the capability to do that. With some basic skills and a 50A power outlet to tinker with, you could do the wiring tests, though.

The surge protection part of the device wears out over time. The MOV devices inside that do the surge handling are sacrificial. Each time a surge is absorbed, a little of its capability goes away. Bigger surges hurt more, but there are rarely frequent.
Gary
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garyb1st

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Re: electrical surge protectors
« Reply #39 on: September 30, 2017, 03:58:53 PM »
A $350 unit is probably a power monitor as well as a surge protector. The make & model would define it better.

 

Thanks Gary.  Model is TRC 34750.  It is a power protector and does provide low, high and reverse polarity.  Label on the side says to plug it in and wait for 2 mins 16 secs before turning on power to RV.  It also says to refer to instruction booklet (which we don't have) if either the caution or time delay lights remain illuminated.  I guess we can just plug it in and hope it hasn't been impaired by prior surges.  Can the MOV devices be replaced?
Gary B1st

2005 Pace Arrow 35G
2016 Jeep Wrangler

lynnmor

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Re: electrical surge protectors
« Reply #40 on: September 30, 2017, 04:58:09 PM »
I have a progressive industries EMS HW30C hardwired into my 5th wheel. The readout is showing approx 112V into the camper with only the fridge running. As soon as I turn on the furnace, coffee pot etc the voltage drops below 104V and cuts power which it should do. The parks pedestal is showing 125V yet I知 only getting 112V into the camper. Any ideas as I can only run a couple of electrical items at the same time? Should also note that I知 not using anymore than about 10 amps.

You probably have a poor connection at the plug and it may soon burn.

John From Detroit

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Re: electrical surge protectors
« Reply #41 on: September 30, 2017, 05:02:04 PM »
In the case of the original Poster I'd guess dirty contacts on the plug. BUT another thing is measure voltage PLUGGED IN.. yes you should be able to do that on a 30 am site.. If it is a 20-30-50 use a dog bone on the 50 am outlet
Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business
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Kevin Means

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Re: electrical surge protectors
« Reply #42 on: September 30, 2017, 05:11:31 PM »
I have a progressive industries EMS HW30C hardwired into my 5th wheel. The readout is showing approx 112V into the camper with only the fridge running. As soon as I turn on the furnace, coffee pot etc the voltage drops below 104V and cuts power which it should do. The parks pedestal is showing 125V yet I知 only getting 112V into the camper. Any ideas as I can only run a couple of electrical items at the same time? Should also note that I知 not using anymore than about 10 amps.
Dean, that's quite a voltage drop from just turning on a coffee maker and some low-draw appliances. I'm assuming you're reading the voltage from the HW30C's display (or a remote display?) If so, that means the voltage drop is occurring between the HW30C unit and the power pedestal. Has this been a problem at other campgrounds, or did it just start happening where you're camped now? If it just started happening, there may be a problem with the park's electrical system, or a problem in the power pedestal itself. If it's been happening at other campgrounds, you may have a problem with your power cord or plug.

The wires in the plug-head can fray, break and eventually be connected by only a few strands, which can cause the plug-head get hot when you start running heavier loads. You should also take a look at the pins sticking out of the plug head. They can become almost black with oxidation and can start to make poor contact with the socket. While cleaning them, if you notice a fluid-like oozing substance at the base of the pins (it may be dry) that's a pretty good indication that the plug-head is getting hot.

Kev



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Towing a Jeep Rubicon Unlimited LJ or an Acura MDX
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(Can't wait to spend more time RVing)
Lakeside, California

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: electrical surge protectors
« Reply #43 on: October 01, 2017, 11:48:13 AM »
You can get the TRC 37450 user manual and troubleshooting guide at:

http://trci.net/products/surge-guard-rv/hardwires-portables/discontinued-50a-portable-wlcd-display-34750

YOU don't have to wait 2+ minutes (actually 128 seconds) to turn on power - that delay is built into the TRC. It will wait that much time before it passes power on to the coach power cord.  Just don't be alarmed when power doesn't reach the coach right away - the delay is intentional, designed to prevent a/c compressor damage if power ever flickers on/off rapidly.

It is generally not cost effective to replace MOVs. If you have to take it to an electronics guy to do it, the labor + parts will almost surely exceed the price of a new one. If you can DIY or have a pal who can, it's a different situation.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2017, 11:50:18 AM by Gary RV_Wizard »
Gary
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viceprice

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Re: electrical surge protectors
« Reply #44 on: October 01, 2017, 08:14:02 PM »
We have the 30A Portable TRC Model 34830 with LCD Display.  I like the 128 sec delay and the fact it will not connect if there is a problem.  I also like the voltage and amp readout. I can calculate the total watts being used that is most helpful when on the generator and managing the stuff we use  - mostly when the A/C is running.

We also have the voltage regulator.  I feel both are cheap insurance to help protect the electronics and investment in our TT.  I saw the voltage regulator do its job with a campground low voltage at 114V. The surge protector also reported an "open ground" and a reverse polarity the first time I tried to use the generator.  Turns out I needed a "bonded plug" to use in one of the 120 V outlets on the generator. This ties the ground and common line together as it is in residential wiring.  The 30 amp outlet on the generator was wired with the line and common reversed.  I took the cover off the generator,  switched the wires on the outlet and all works fine.
Karen, Kyle and the K9s
1997 Chevrolet C2500 7.4L Silverado
2016 Cougar X-Lite 28RBS

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: electrical surge protectors
« Reply #45 on: October 02, 2017, 08:31:51 AM »
Quote
I saw the voltage regulator do its job with a campground low voltage at 114V.

114v is well within the "normal" range for utility voltage. In some regions, 110v is the standard voltage the power utility provides.  Seems odd that your "voltage regulator" would activate at 114v.

Quote
The 30 amp outlet on the generator was wired with the line and common reversed.  I took the cover off the generator,  switched the wires on the outlet and all works fine.

Sad if it came from the factory or dealer that way! Maybe somebody replaced the outlet at some point and neglected to get the wiring right? Good that you found and fixed it!
Gary
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Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

viceprice

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Re: electrical surge protectors
« Reply #46 on: October 02, 2017, 10:27:19 PM »

It did come that way from the factory.  I was alerted by a customer review I had read prior to purchase that had identified the same problem.  It was the voltage regulator that provided the indication of the situation.

Just out of curiosity, how much of a problem is it with alternating current?
« Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 10:29:16 PM by viceprice »
Karen, Kyle and the K9s
1997 Chevrolet C2500 7.4L Silverado
2016 Cougar X-Lite 28RBS

Gary RV_Wizard

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Re: electrical surge protectors
« Reply #47 on: October 03, 2017, 12:28:29 PM »
Many things still work OK, e.g. light bulbs and resistance heaters, but motors and digital electronics may notice the difference or not work at all. It is also potentially a safety problem.
Gary
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Gary Brinck
Summers: Black Mountain, NC
Home: Ocala National Forest, FL

 

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