Is my mechanic being realistic?

Well, after a white-knuckle drive from Colorado this past weekend...high wind, snow, ice...I got the 05 Safari Simba 30PDD home. Now the out of country and out of province inspections begin. The rig has 15,000 miles on it (1300 from me already, LOL). I knew the front brakes were marginal based on the visual when I picked it up...no biggy. Anyways....it's in the shop today and I get the call that all four brakes are done and the rotors are so severely heat-checked that they all will need replacing. They've rolled the rig out until the rotors show up, but he also mentioned that there is "some marginal steering components" as well that they will look at closer when it comes back in.

OK...WTH I'm thinking. 15k miles and the entire running gear is done? I got a hard time with this. It's a Workhorse P32 chassis....yes I was aware of some of the drawbacks....but I work in the oil patch and I've never seen a Ford V10 last yet, so I refuse to have one in my driveway. The previous owner put front and rear swaybars on as well as a steering dampner (I think?)....anyways when not on pure ice, the rig drives amazing. Winds and semi trucks do nothing to the handling.

Anyways, just wondering if this is common for the P32. We had a 2000 TripleE Empress with the same chassis and had NO problems.

Are you sure its a p32. I didnt know wh made a p32 in 2005 with the 8.1. Maybe a w20 or w22? If a w20 or 22, there's a problem with the brakes and a recall coming. If a w20 or 22 you need to call workhorse for reimburshment on brake work before it leaves the shop. Good luck

Nope....it's a P32. Last year they made 'em. 8.1 with the GM 4 sp OD trans. My mech said he figures someone was towing a TOAD with it and overheated the brakes severely. The part numbers are GM, not Bosch.

As for the front end work he had eluded to this AM, turns out the suspension and steering is fine....but his guy noticed that one of the aftermarket steering components didn't have all the holes drilled and bolted to the frame....he suggested we do that.

I just still have a hard time with the rotors needing replacing after 15000 miles. I have 100,000 miles on my 06 GM truck and I'm on the original pads....

Well, a motorhome's brakes work a lot harder than your truck brakes, but I'd be struggling with worn out brakes at 15k miles too.  On the other hand, if the coach was heavily loaded, including maybe a toad with no aux brake of its own, yes those front brakes would have been worked really hard.

If you don't feel confident in your mechanic, get a second opinion.

I had Ford vans that ATE brakes for breakfast.  I'd agree that on a heavily loaded gasser chassis MH, possibly pulling a toad w/no aux brakes, it's not surprising the brakes are toast - especially if the previous driver did not have a clue how to drive.  Entirely possible IMO, but I'm just guessing since I don't have much direct experience (yet!) with gasser A's.  From my limited drive in our new Tiffin 36' on a Ford, I don't think there is a lot of "extra" capacity there.  Sufficient, but I can tell by feel that if I tried to drive it like a sports car, it would really not like it.

Gordon

Mileage and brake ware are certainly related, and 15K is repetitively short miles for a break job.  However, the way a person drives, or should I say breaks, is also directly related to break ware.  If a driver waits long enough to begin breaking so that heavy breaking is required, breaks will ware quicker.  Additionally, if when in mountains and tall hills a driver relies on breaks and doesn't use the transmission to slow down, breaks ware will be faster, too. 

You said you picked it up in CO. Maybe the owner did not use the transmission to help brake in his mountain driving. That could sure cause rotor overheating and I would think pad wear.

Another possibility on the brakes...maybe the previous owner was one of those that drives with both feet...I have seen this before, where they don't realize that they are constantly 'riding' the brake pedal with their left foot. It'll wear them out quickly.

Also - as others have said...heavy load/toad without tranny breaking.

  I'd sure want to inspect those rotors myself first. If they were that hot they should have warped first and you'd sure notice it when you apply brakes.
  It may be possible to heat and damage the front rotors but the rears??
 

No reflection on you; but a skilled driver can get a heavy vehicle down a hill with cooler brakes almost every time. Truckers won't bite and are a good resource to tap. Any CDL training facility can help you too. If you overheat the brakes, even once, they should be thoroughly inspected. Once pads make contact with a warped rotor or drum it's downhill from there. Some owners like to make the mistake of replacing just the pads and letting the grooves wear into them to save some money until they have to turn the rotors. Big mistake. Also, the method of braking will differ depending on wether your rig has ABS installed. If you start with a rebuilt system and are diligent with your braking, I think you'll be surprised how many miles you can get out of it.

Thanks for the replies gang. I talked to the actual tech the other night and he said that under the gov't out of province inspection rules, if there is any "bluing" of the rotor, he has to fail it. He said they had gotten really hot and even the pads were cracked and checked. So I guess I'll suck it up, get the rig 100% and try not to make the same mistakes the previous owner did.

Well...in the end I got bent over anyways. I brought it in for the inspection, install daytime running lights (law in Canada), diff and trans fluid change, and to look at the cause of the Powergear touchpad beeping.

With the out-of-province inspection....all deficiencies have to be rectified in order to be certified. All 4 rotors replaced, 4 sets of pads, rear axle seals replaced, pivot arm and holder for pitman arm replaced, and plug wires(was missing). Plus the diff fluid change and trans fluid flush/change. They hooked up the red wire I had disconnected in Wyoming to shut up the Powergear beeping....told me it was fine. $4000.00 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Yes FOUR THOUSAND DOLLARS.

I get in it and the Powergear pad is going buzzz, buzzz, buzzz....not beep beep beep as before...front and right lights on the pad are blinking. Big grease stain on the carpet on the slide....footprint. Drive home reveals a WORSE drive than before. It handled great for 1250 hellish miles 3 weeks ago....now it wanders and feels touchy. The rig is raked now....rear end looks all lifted and front looks low or normal....I assume they fiddled with the airbags. Thought I heard a grinding when I came to a stop....hard to tell with all that noise from the PG pad. NOT HAPPY. I knew better than to give them the RV-only item like the jacks....but they insisted it would be no problem. I don't even want to take it back there....brand new toy I was looking forward to using and I hate it already. I hate repair shops.

  Wow! Sorry to hear of your bad experiences. Nothing like poor service to ruin your opinion of repair shops.
  I know nothing about Canadian Vehicle Inspections but it sure sounds extreme to me.
  Hope your opinion of your new coach changes after a few pleasant trips.

Ouchie.    Can you have a civil but stern chat with the service manager at the shop?  Explain your case and find out exactly what they did to your rig to worsen the handling.

I used to manage a fleet of vehicles for a heli logging company. Those guys could break a steel ball with a rubber hammer. I had a call from a crew that rotated in, the brakes were shot on the crew cab. I said c'mon, that is a brand new truck that went to the site two weeks ago. Instead of using the tranny, the previous driver obviously rode the brakes to the bottom. The rotors, pads, drums and shoes were junk.
An inexperienced or nervous driver could take the brakes out in 15,000 miles.

$4000? Wow! I think they seized the opportunity of the inspection to fill their shop with high profit work. If everything was now in tip top shape, you could at least console yourself  with that, but it is inexcusable to leave you with all those problems. A chat with the shop seems definitely in order, but what's to stop them from charging you another couple thousand to fix the "new' problems?  It sure sounds like they have messed up the steering and suspension with their "fix"

You're right Gary.....it's not the 4k. I don't mind paying if I get value for my dollar. So today I had to complete the last of the RIV inspections....this one is for the out-of-country. Simple inspection to verify good tires, VIN numbers, Canadian DOT compliance, french labels on any supplemental restraint system (airbag) and daytime running lights. Easy pass. I now have plates and insurance in Alberta.

I took the opportunity to diagnose some stuff myself. Funny how much better the steering is when you put 60lbs in each front suspension airbag instead of 100.5 in one and 30 in the other.

I also got looking at the Powergear deal. With the unit in park and the yellow knob out....no noise. I turn on the levelers and the top and right lights stay lit....I will have to diagnose further....but in manual mode the jacks work fine and retract fine. No warnings on the highway.

Here's where I THOUGHT I had an additional Powergear issue: with rig in park, push yellow knob in...a buzzing starts down under the dash. Hmmmm. Turn headlights on, buzzing stops. I get looking and its one of the small relays in the fusebox....pop it out, no buzzing. I got a new one....no fixy. It's gotta be the daytime running lights hooked up wrong. They work....but that buzzing relay is not right.

My next door neighbor, regular camping buddy and all round good buddy is a licenced heavy duty tech. He was mad that I had someone else do all this work....but I don't like buggin buddies for freebies, you know? He doesn't pull wrenches any more, he's an Operations manager at a big oil field company. After all this, he's insisting on going over everything. And I'm going to supply the refreshments to let him do it just so I'll feel secure with the rig.

Anyways, I washed all the Colorado/Wyoming/Montana/Alberta road salt off 'er finally and I almost like it again. That shop IS going to get an ear-full. Pretty sad I have to go over everything myself in order to feel confident.

Glad you got the handling issue fixed so easily. Yes, that chassis is sensitive to the right amount of pressure in the air bags. Either too much or too little can give poor results. Depending on the front axle weight rating, you want a minimum of 50-60 psi for the 4880 lb front axle and 80-90 for the 5500 and 6000 lb axles (see the rating sticker which should be by the driver seat on the wall). I would not be surprised if the Simba had the heavier axle, so you may want to increase it a bit.

You should download the Workhorse Chassis Guide, which will give you a lot of good technical info about your 2005 P32 chassis. You can register your chassis on the Workhorse website and download from there, or download it without registering from this site:

http://www.freedrive.com/files/5irff8s52j0o/Work%5B1%5D..._Guide.pdf

Downloaded! Thanks Gary.

DaveB said:

My next door neighbor, regular camping buddy and all round good buddy is a licenced heavy duty tech. He was mad that I had someone else do all this work....but I don't like buggin buddies for freebies, you know?

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Yeah but you don't have to feel bad if someone genuinely offers.  And it might even save you money in the process.    Even if he doesn't "pull wrenches" anymore, I'm sure he still has the know-how and could help you get some of the work done at a better price.