Tires for travel trailer ?????

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I have been studying the axle tire load ratio for some time. First, federal regulations require that the ratio be at least 1 i.e. maximum tire load capacity must be equal to axle load rating.
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FMVSS 571-120

S5.1.2 Except in the case of a vehicle which has a speed attainable
in 3.2 kilometers of 80 kilometers per hour or less, the sum of the
maximum load ratings of the tires fitted to an axle shall be not less
than the gross axle weight rating (GAWR) of the axle system as specified
on the vehicle's certification label required by 49 CFR part 567. Except
in the case of a vehicle which has a speed attainable in 2 miles of 50
mph or less, the sum of the maximum load ratings of the tires fitted to
an axle shall be not less than the gross axle weight rating (GAWR) of
the axle system as specified on the vehicle's certification label
required by 49 CFR part 567. If the certification label shows more than
one GAWR for the axle system, the sum shall be not less than the GAWR
corresponding to the size designation of the tires fitted to the axle.
If the size designation of the tires fitted to the axle does not appear on the certification label, the sum shall be not less than the lowest GAWR appearing on the label. When a
tire subject to FMVSS No. 109 is installed on a multipurpose passenger
vehicle, truck, bus, or trailer, the tire's load rating shall be reduced
by dividing by 1.10 before calculating the sum (i.e., the sum of the
load ratings of the tires on each axle, when the tires' load carrying
capacity at the recommended tire cold inflation pressure is reduced by
dividing by 1.10, must be appropriate for the GAWR).
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In looking at a sample from a survey I did of owners of 100 5th wheel units, I found ratios ranging from 1.17 to .85  I should add I'm still working on the data and meaning of various FMVSS statues.

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However, it seems to me that the standard of one is totally inadequate. It assumes the TT is loaded perfectly, being pulled perfectly level, etc.  Yet, I look at the design of my new 5th wheel and on the driver side it has all the heavy components -the kitchen with all the appliances and an island with countertops all around of Corian,the living room has fireplace and TV, and the bedroom headboard and shower stall, etc. I haven't taken physical delivery yet so haven't weighed but can it possibly be a balanced weight? I have negotiated with the parties a change out of my tires and wheels to raise the ratio to 1.14 from 1 and am awaiting their delivery at this writing.


 
Agree, Leo. The chances that the load is equal side-to-side is slim. Besides, a tire that is an exact match for the axle capacity is very likely always running at its max limit. That's begging for trouble, in my book. I would much rather see 10-20% safety margin, so the tire is well within its capabilities.
 
blueblood said:
I have been studying the axle tire load ratio for some time. First, federal regulations require that the ratio be at least 1 i.e. maximum tire load capacity must be equal to axle load rating.
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There is a slight cushion for the axle and wheel/tire selection built  into the GVWR. It?s in the pin weight.

GVWR is what it is, Gross Vehicle Weight Rating. The major factors needed to determine GVWR are a combination of vehicle shipping weight, maximum allowed cargo weight and a predetermined pin weight. Taking the pin weight off the shipping weight and adding the cargo weight will determine the axles needed for the GVWR. Hypothetical situation; 5th wheel shipping weight 12134# plus maximum cargo 2071# = 14,205# (GVWR). Now we take off the manufacturer?s pin weight, 2205#. Axle requirements, two 6000#. That?s how it works. The actual pin weight will be higher and that?s your cushion, not much but it?s there. In the above situation it could exceed 600#. Tires/wheels provided by the vehicle manufacturer must have enough load carrying capacity to support the maximum load capacity of the axles.

FastEagle
 
"There is a slight cushion for the axle and wheel/tire selection built  into the GVWR. It?s in the pin weight."

My vehicle has a GWVR of 16,160 and a pin weight of 2,160 giving an axle weight of 14,000 and thus 2-7000# axles. The tires are rated 3640 given a max. capacity of 14,560 or 560# excess spread across the 4 tires. I contend this 4% excess is totally inadequate. I contacted a tire expert with 30 yrs experience in tire design and manufacturing and he replied as follows :

"I think tires in trailer application ought to have a 15% reserve (unused) capacity.  This is one of the lessons from the Ford / Firestone thing a few years back.
I also think it is time the trailer manufacturers recognized this."

 
It's not just the tires either. By undersizing the axles (less than GVWR), the braking capacity is reduced compared to GVWR and that's not a good thing either. Trailer manufacturers are using any possible way to save a few dollars and keep prices down, but skimping on brakes and tires is bad news for the average RVer. They assume they bought something adequate for typical use and not something that is maxed out before they drive it off the lot. And the federal safety regs let them get away with it.
 
blueblood said:
"There is a slight cushion for the axle and wheel/tire selection built  into the GVWR. It?s in the pin weight."

My vehicle has a GWVR of 16,160 and a pin weight of 2,160 giving an axle weight of 14,000 and thus 2-7000# axles. The tires are rated 3640 given a max. capacity of 14,560 or 560# excess spread across the 4 tires. I contend this 4% excess is totally inadequate. I contacted a tire expert with 30 yrs experience in tire design and manufacturing and he replied as follows :

"I think tires in trailer application ought to have a 15% reserve (unused) capacity.  This is one of the lessons from the Ford / Firestone thing a few years back.
I also think it is time the trailer manufacturers recognized this."


As mentioned in my previous post the manufacturer uses a predetermined pin weight. It is always too low but must be provided because it?s part of the process. So your 2160# pin must be close to 3000# by the time you get it loaded for the road.

FastEagle
 
What are your thoughts on Carlile(sp) non radial but high speed LR D trailer tires? Or some LT215 75 R15 Liberators. My 26ft has a GVWR of 7000lbs. Its got the standard tires on it now and I want to get a taller tire.
 
CamperSpecial said:
What are your thoughts on Carlile(sp) non radial but high speed LR D trailer tires? Or some LT215 75 R15 Liberators. My 26ft has a GVWR of 7000lbs. Its got the standard tires on it now and I want to get a taller tire.

What is a standard tire?
What is a trailer tire?

FastEagle
 
FastEagle said:
What is a standard tire?
What is a trailer tire?

FastEagle

OOOOOOOOK?????

a standard tire....a low end st205 75 15 like what comes on most trailers under 7000lbs....

a trailer tire..... is a tire that comes on a trailer of sorts, (unless you misread wear I mentioned I wanted a TALLER tire?)
 
CamperSpecial said:
OOOOOOOOK?????

a standard tire....a low end st205 75 15 like what comes on most trailers under 7000lbs....

a trailer tire..... is a tire that comes on a trailer of sorts, (unless you misread wear I mentioned I wanted a TALLER tire?)

I'm sorry, the questions were only for verification. The ST on your tires stands for Special Trailer. And I'm not sure what a "Standard Tire" is unless it's a "P" (Passenger). The most common ST tire on the market today is the radial design. Almost all of them are made off shore and with few exceptions, that?s main land China. Goodyear is in the process of returning their Marathon ST line back to North America manufacturing sites.

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/Equipment/towing/tire_safety.htm

FastEagle
 
WOW!! Thanks for the geography lesson! And I'm so proud that you know your abbreviations! Now go back and reread my post and if you have any experience w/ either of these two tires let me know......

What I have now is almost new ST205/75D15 w/ a load cap. of 1820lb (and these are non-radial), although they are rated enough weight wise I want to be able to tow 65 mph w/out a problem and gain a inch or so in height.

So when I stopped by the tire shop the other day they had Carlisle ST225/75R15 load range C @2150lbs for $100 each and LT225/75R15 Liberators (didn't see any ratings for these but I did have them on my F150 for 50k miles)
for $80 each.

 
CamperSpecial said:
WOW!! Thanks for the geography lesson! And I'm so proud that you know your abbreviations! Now go back and reread my post and if you have any experience w/ either of these two tires let me know......

What I have now is almost new ST205/75D15 w/ a load cap. of 1820lb (and these are non-radial), although they are rated enough weight wise I want to be able to tow 65 mph w/out a problem and gain a inch or so in height.

So when I stopped by the tire shop the other day they had Carlisle ST225/75R15 load range C @2150lbs for $100 each and LT225/75R15 Liberators (didn't see any ratings for these but I did have them on my F150 for 50k miles)
for $80 each.

I?m just going to give you some references to help in your decision making. Please keep in mind that LT tires with equal sizes in the ST profile will not have the same load carrying capabilities and their dimensions will also differ. Bias trailer tires are still Special Trailer tires and as such are speed restricted to 65 MPH. Most LT tires when placed in the RV trailer positiopn will be speed restricted to 75 MPH by their manufacturer.

Maxxis = ST225/75R15D load capacity is 2540# @ 65 psi.
Uniroyal Laredo = LT225/75R15D load capacity is 2150# @ 65 psi.

http://www.carlisletire.com/product_care/trailer_tires_101.pdf

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/Equipment/towing/tire_safety.htm

FastEagle
 
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